When Throwbacks Just Don’t Work

By Phil Hecken

Last evening the Milwaukee Brewers played host to the Philadelphia Phillies in the first of several of the Brewers’ planned season-long 40th anniversary celebration “Retro Weekends” (there will be four in all), each one harking back to a specific decade in Brewer history. Last night was billed thusly:

1970s Retro Weekend (May 14-16 vs. Phillies): May 14 — Brewers to wear reproductions of the home 1972-77 uniforms with “BREWERS” in royal blue block letters on the front of the jerseys and the yellow “M” logo on the cap. The Phillies will be wearing light blue uniforms worn on the road throughout most of the 1970s. Alumni Gorman Thomas and Jim Colborn are scheduled to attend and participate in a pregame autograph session.

Sounded good. If we take a look into the ‘way back machine,’ we’d see the match-up should have looked something like this. While no specific “year” for either team was indicated, the Brewers of that time-period were wearing their mid-70’s polyester pullover tops with thick blue-gold-blue sleeve stripes, and matching beltless pants with blue stirrups and white sanitaries. The cap was royal blue with gold “M” in block style (despite the bad photo reproduction). Generally, a pretty plain uniform — their second generation, after having worn their inherited “Seattle Pilots” uniforms from 1970-71. In 1971, they would lose some of the sleeve stripes.

From 1972-1977 the Brewers would wear the style they were attempting to replicate in last night’s game. As you can see in this Bill Henderson graphic, these unis were NNOB, with radially arched “BREWERS” stitched across the front, with a “v” neck. Some additional explanation of this style, and those that followed, can be seen here.

The Phillies, their selected opponents for this retro game, wore their 1972 powder blue (according to Henderson) road uniforms. We know this to be so, because while the Phillies wore powder blue roads from 1973-1988 (according to Marc Okkonen), they only wore button downs for 1973 (although the would return to them for 1987-88). In between the wore a zipper front jersey. Despite the popular misconception that they wore maroon/burgundy as an accent color, it was a dark red that might appear burgundy. Trim and stirrups were dark red, with stripes having a white-dark red-white pattern. As mentioned, in 1987 & 1988, the Phils returned to the button down style. These, as noted by Bill Henderson, can be identified by the “closed loop inside the front ‘P’ logo.” Those jerseys also had nameplates containing radially arched lettering (as opposed to the earlier style which had VAL). In 1972, the Phillies had no NOB.

Both teams had previously played throwback games wearing the style of uniform they were supposed to emulate last evening. In 2003, the Phillies played the Orioles, but then, they were supposed to be approximating their 1983 version of the powder blues. They came close, but still didn’t quite get it right. The Brewers had done better in their attempts.

So, how did they do last evening?

I realize I sound like an old fart when I complain about teams not getting throwbacks right, but dammit — it really doesn’t require that much effort or research to get uniforms from the 1970s correct. I’ll even discount the apparent missteps of both teams because they weren’t wearing the specific uniform of a certain year. For example, it is my understanding that the Phils were merely representing the “decade” of the 1970’s, so I’ll forgive their transgressions from the proper uniform. And by and large, it was nice to see them break out the powders (wish some teams, but not the Phils, would bring those back). But on the other hand, at Uni Watch, we cannot help but spot the glaring mistakes in the uniform replication.

The Phillies, for the most part, got it right. They went with button-down jerseys (so, 1972-3, if we’re talking the period they were representing), but didn’t spring for the retro helmets. OK, it’s a one-off, no big deal. They wore period-correct caps in dark red (almost burgundy). Well done there. It’s tough to tell, but it appears they went with the closed loop logo on the jerseys, more closely approximating the 1987-1988 jersey. Meh. And they elected to go not only with NOB, but they again went with the 1987-88 radially arched nameplates. OK. Not a big deal, to be sure, but how difficult would it have been to get those details correct.

But what really eats at my craw is the complete and total reluctance of the teams (for the most part) to even attempt to wear the uniforms in the style of the period they were throwing back to. Giant, oversized jerseys and pajama bottoms were in evidence all over the place. C’mon, man. Does this remind anyone of the 1970s? (Also note skip Charlie Manuel wearing the modern dugout jacket, for a rather anachronistic look.) Seriously, pajama pants aren’t a good look in any era, but they look particularly atrocious when sported in the powder blues.

The Brewers did pretty well on their throwbacks, but they too had mostly pajama-clad-and-two-sizes-too-big jerseys. But as far as replicating the 1972-77 uniform, they get high marks (although the appearance of the swoosh on the undershirt is annoying). But they did get the jersey and pants style (pullovers and beltless pants) correct, and had proper helmets with a big block “M” on them. I’m not sure if they ever wore that big an “M,” (my memory is somewhat faulty), but I always thought it was more like what Hammerin’ Hank sported. Still, not a big deal. All in all, not too bad (there’s that swoosh again).

A few of the Brewers wore blue socks, but I didn’t see a single stirrup-clad player, which was disappointing. Two of the Phillies, however, did break out the sweet hosiery (although the rups, while period correct, are a bit too high for my liking). Shane Victorino, who looked a bit like a kid who’d never worn stirrups before, played along. Of course, the best-attired player of the whole evening was the only player who may have actually played during the 1970s, pitcher Jamie Moyer. That uniform never looked good, but at least Moyer knew how to wear it correctly. (Big thanks to UW Prexy Paul Lukas for the screen grabs.)

I’m honestly not really enjoying these TBTC or retro or throwback games anymore, and it’s simply because the teams involved either don’t care, or think the fans don’t care, or don’t really want to get it right. All my nit-picking is just that — but it’s not enjoyable to watch a game like this, at least to me. I can overlook the minor uniform screwups and omissions, although those are easy enough to correct, but what bothers me more is the way the players insist on wearing the uniforms in today’s cuts. I lived through the 1970s, and grew up watching the teams playing in these, and they look NOTHING like what I remember. And that’s because it’s not what they dressed like back then. Again, call me an old fart, but I really don’t think it’s too much to ask for the uniform manufacturers to at least get the details right and give the players a properly fitting uniform. It’s not like they’re speed skaters or sprinters who might be adversely affected by wearing an old style uniform, and I really doubt what they wear today is so much more comfortable that they’ll be detrimentally affected by looking like their predecessors did.

Tonight, the Civil Rights Game takes place between the Cardinals and the Reds. I really don’t know if I can bear to watch.

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bar(4) hedGot an E-mail from reader David Freeman this week that should make every red-blooded American male drool extremely jealous … and even our Canadian, European and Asian friends as well. Let’s just say what you are about to see is, in a word, awesome. I’ll let David describe it:

Hey Phil –

I thought you may be interested in my on-going project of getting my bar built inside my new house … of course I jumped the gun and put all my helmets (well , not ALL of my helmets, just the most valuable) on display first BEFORE building the actual bar, but I couldn’t help myself — ahahahhahahah … all the helmets are built from scratch — what I like to call “era-perfect.” I built the display shelves as well … next to the Rams display (the white & red helmet w/the “LS” on it is my High School helmet from ’82 — La Serna High in Whittier , Ca. w/the team photos from Jr./Sr. year in the frame).

I also had ALL of the USFL helmets made, but ran out of room, so I sold off the less meaningful ones, and the special items are kept in my studio/office (sorry, some of the pix are a little dark, but that room just floods with light and it’s hard to get things perfect). The Hershel Walker helmet is supposed to be “his practice helmet,” and it came with a LOA , but I can’t really picture his head fitting in a Large helmet. The original logos (which seem to be authentic) are framed below it.

I have a Eric Dickerson display with EP helmet & Mitchell & Ness jersey, shoulder pads, and neck-roll all ready to be put up on the wall next to the Rams display, but haven’t had the time to put it up yet — hopefully soon before the summer pool parties start. The Alan Page helmet I just finished over this past weekend, and the other (2) Rams helmets are getting ready for sale: the one yellow/blue Rams helmet with the 2-bar mask is actually a 1978 Punt Pass & Kick helmet used by a kid that was a friend of my dad’s friend who knew a guy that had a kid that used it for 2 years.

I hope you enjoy the pix. I love this hobby — it’s all about the hunt, and finding treasures in what other people call junk!

David Freeman (djmff)

Wow, David. That’s pretty freakin’ sweet. I followed up with David about the USFL helmets and the “Dickerson Display,” and here’s what he had to say:

I have more in the same room/bar but in a bookshelf, but it looks kinda tacky (even for a guy, that set up is just temporary until the bar’s built — I just keep it there to bug the wife) so I didn’t take any pix. If anyone else wants to see the USFL helmets, or the Dickerson display just let me know.

I usually pop on to your site once a week or so since I’ve found you guys. Thanks again — I still need to join so I can get my #9 card!

I’d say so. You could take out a dozen or so memberships and put them up all over the room ;). One for each helmet!

As a bonus, in a separate E-mail, David sent along a photo of his Steve Young USFL LA Express helmet.

Great stuff. I’ll have more from David in the future. He’s a pretty interesting guy with a TON of memorabilia and some fantastic stories. Stay tuned!

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Benchies HeaderWhat did you have for breakfast this morning? Was it serial? The Benches theme continues…here’s Ricko:

Mick is still trying to get a handle on this “baseball joins the generations” thing. Y’know, looking for that elusive common ground where time is irrelevant and we are all just kids. Under the circumstances, good luck with that…

Here’s your Saturday Bencies.

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scoreboardGuess The Game From The Scoreboard: Baseball’s back for the scoreboard today, and this one might prove a challenge for those of you playing along at home. But the only clue you’ll need is right there in front of you. Ready? Guess The Game From The Scoreboard Date, location and final score, please, and be sure to link to your answer. And, as always, if you enjoy the game, please send me some new scoreboards! Drop me a line. Thanks!

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uni template 2Back again with more Uniform Tweaks, Concepts and Revisions today. Lots to get to, and if you have a tweak, change or concept for any sport, send them my way.

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Leading off today is Bowen Hobbs, who knocked the cover off the ball with this Pirates set:

Hello,

My name is Bowen Hobbs. I am a graphic designer from Oshkosh, WI, as well as a lifelong sports fan. I write a blog called 44th & Goal (my boss is cool enough to pay me for it, as it gets our agency’s name out there), which is dedicated to sports design and branding. Anyways, the purpose of this email is to show how great the Pittsburgh Pirates could look if they embraced their history. I have attached a logo sheet, as well as home, away, “faux-back” alternate, and batting practice uniforms. The concept embrace a modified pill box hat, and applies the striping from said hat to the sleeves of the uniforms. They primary home and road jerseys feature a vest with the undershirt having the stripes, while the black jerseys have sleeves containing the stripes. Although the model in my concept isn’t wearing stirrups, I would envision the stirrups (or sock) making use of the three-stripe pattern.

Thanks for taking the time to look at my concept,

Bowen Hobbs

~~~

In the two-hole today is Robert Montenegro, with some cool concepts for some teams across the pond, rendered in low-tech:

Phil,

I’ve been living in Germany for the past few months and being away from baseball so long got me to bust out the good ol’ Crayola markers and think about some “what-if’s…”

First, there’s a concept for a Germany uniform, pinstriped with a “D” logo for “Deutschland” across the front.

Second, a Denmark jersey, with the Danish spelling across the front.

Then, a UK concept, which admittedly looks like a wearable Reebok billboard.

Finally for national teams, there’s my favorite — Ireland (or Éire in Irish). I think this one came out the best.

Thanks!

Rob

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In the three hole, we’ve got an NHL tweak from Stephen Brookman, who has a couple new looks for the golfing Capitals:

Hey Phil,

Attached are two small tweaks I made for the Washington Choking-Dogs, er, I mean Capitals. I really like the retro looking font used in their logo. Since there is a “C” and an “A” in the logo, why don’t they use that same typeface for their captaincy patches? Here’s what I came up with.

There are other tweaks I would like to work on, namely the piping, but I’m too depressed to think about the Caps anymore than I have to. haha

Have a good one buddy!

— Steve

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And closing down the show today we have Anthony Rodriguez who, like so many, thinks the Bills uniforms need tweakin':

Phil,

Thanks for humoring all of us wannabe uni designers!

Here’s my take on a Bills revamp. I decided to take the most reviled football uni and approach it with elements from the most revered (Da Bears). Plus, I had some time on my hands and felt like designing them a new logo.

Enjoy!

Anthony

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And with that, we’ll close down today’s edition of All Sport Uni Tweaks. Check back next time for more.

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Everyone have a great Saturday. It’s possible, but not likely, that I won’t have Internet access this evening, so there may not be any reports on the Civil Rights Game tomorrow. Then again, I may be too upset with what they wear to want to write about it anyway.

~~~

If you’re associated with the Philadelphia media or town, you look for negatives. I don’t know if there’s something about their upbringing or they have too many hoagies, or too much cream cheese. — Michael Jack Schmidt

 

127 comments to When Throwbacks Just Don’t Work

  • scott | May 15, 2010 at 7:44 am |

    I’m not nearly as offended if today’s players don’t want to wear the uniforms like they were worn back in the ’70s. Who wants to wear skin tight uniforms – or even watch them in action? It would be like asking an NBA team to don throwbacks and then have the players in super-short, TMI shorts. I think having teams representing the era they are turning back to is as good as it will get – and I appreciate whatever effort is put forward.

  • Dan McB | May 15, 2010 at 7:50 am |

    Loved to see the uni tweak for my Pittsburgh Pirates! I especially like the stripes on the sleeves. Very unique! I’d do away with this particular buccaneer entirely though, and bring back the “smiling Pirate” from the 70s. I prefer the actual 3 stripe pillbox cap, but could live with the modified version. I know a lot of people (and players I’m sure) don’t like that at all.

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 8:03 am |

    Picking up the discussion from late last night (initiated by rpm, I believe) regarding a UW softball game at the FIELD OF DREAMS movie site down in Dyersville, Iowa this summer…

    I’m in. Just let me know when.

    And, yes, for THAT game I’ll go high cuffed, definitely.

    —Ricko

  • James P. | May 15, 2010 at 8:29 am |

    I watched part of that Brewers game last night. It was actually kind of awesome seeing those Phillies unis…but I agree about the pj pants. After seeing them back in the day, those powder blues just don’t look right unless they are tight and paired with stirrups.

    Ok, last night, the Marlins wore Los Marlins on their jerseys. How is it not a slap to Hispanics when a sports team does the half-ass thing and just slaps “Los” on their jersey and uses the English team name?

  • Terry Proctor | May 15, 2010 at 8:39 am |

    I wish that today’s players could put their massive egos on hold for the few TBTC games that are played each season and wear the throwbacks as they should be worn. Wearing a pullover jersey and knit-waistband pants in today’s cut (Prince Fielder) looks lousy and defeats the purpose of the event. Do it right or don’t bother.

  • Betharu | May 15, 2010 at 8:42 am |

    First timer in the comments section here – long time lurker. Watching the Phils & Brewers game (while switching back and forth from the Flyers game, was definitely interesting. My 1st thought – I never realized those Phillies uniforms were so bad looking – after all, I grew up with them!
    The Phillies’ announcers had a great time matching the # with who you remember wearing the uni – “24” – Bob Dernier, “21” – Jay Johnstone or Greg Gross, “8” – Bob Boone.
    Re: the pajama pants – I too hate them and remember my late father cursing George Hendrick because he didn’t know how to wear his pants. But, I was more distracted by how every Brewers’ player wears their uni at least two sizes too big. You showed pics of Randy Wolf – whose uni looks somewhat normal sized. How about Prince Fielder, Casey McGhee, Rickie Weeks? They must be stashing “Brats & Beer” in there or something!

  • Craig | May 15, 2010 at 8:45 am |

    Yes, Phil, you are acting like an obsessive old fart. No one cares that athletes wear the throwbacks JUST like they did 40 years ago. The whole concept is for novelty’s sake, and although sometimes too frequently done, I think it’s fun to watch. Brings back a lot of memories.

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 8:51 am |

    [quote comment=”390239″]I wish that today’s players could put their massive egos on hold for the few TBTC games that are played each season and wear the throwbacks as they should be worn. Wearing a pullover jersey and knit-waistband pants in today’s cut (Prince Fielder) looks lousy and defeats the purpose of the event. Do it right or don’t bother.[/quote]

    I’ve pretty much moved into the “don’t bother” camp on this. Throwbacks are fun when there’s a sense of “history observance” around them, the way they were originally.

    Now most are just old style unis in the current cut and style. Different uni, yes, but same attitude as every other game. Yeah, they may be throwbacks, but they aren’t TBTC…and THAT’s when they were fun.

    When there’s no TBTC aspect they’re no longer novel, just routine. No sense of celebration or remembering. Which essentially means “dead”…as an interesting promotion, that is.

    —Ricko

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 8:53 am |

    [quote comment=”390242″][quote comment=”390239″]I wish that today’s players could put their massive egos on hold for the few TBTC games that are played each season and wear the throwbacks as they should be worn. Wearing a pullover jersey and knit-waistband pants in today’s cut (Prince Fielder) looks lousy and defeats the purpose of the event. Do it right or don’t bother.[/quote]

    I’ve pretty much moved into the “don’t bother” camp on this. Throwbacks are fun when there’s a sense of “history observance” around them, the way they were originally.

    Now most are just old style unis in the current cut and style. Different uni, yes, but same attitude as every other game. Yeah, they may be throwbacks, but they aren’t TBTC…and THAT’s when they were fun.

    When there’s no TBTC aspect they’re no longer novel, just routine. No sense of celebration or remembering. Which essentially means “dead”…as an interesting promotion, that is.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    In other words, nostalgia isn’t what it used to be. ;)

    –Ricko

  • frankenslade | May 15, 2010 at 9:13 am |

    Phil, word is the jockstraps weren’t tight enough either. Come on, man, most of your criticisms are fine, but players don’t wear their uniforms that tight anymore. Nor, I’m sure, were the unis made out of ’70s-vintage double-knit. Did you type this piece wearing a leisure suit?

  • Kek | May 15, 2010 at 9:16 am |

    Weighing in on the TBTC debate, which of done in the past, I see really three separate but equally important, although not mutually exclusive issues at hand.

    First, are they accurate? What is the year they were supposed to be from? In some aspects, teams take elements of a uni but they aren’t 100% accurate to the originals, in other cases they are done very well.

    Second, we need to remember materials and fabrics have evolved. For the same reasons we don’t see actual sweaters on NHL throwbacks, we don’t see wool baseball throwbacks very much. Unless a team uses the exact fabric, one can argue even though the design elements are right on, it’s not 100% correct.

    Last is consideration for trends in the way athletes are wearing their uniforms. Sure it would be great if we could get all players to agree with wearing the uni in a certain way but that might not be 100% realistic. I don’t think it’s ego thing either, just you grow up accustomed to wearing things a certain way and messing with that could make you uncomfortable.

    I really think we’ve entered an era where we differentiate between throwback and TBTC. When you TBTC you really should try to be period specific whereas a throwback can have some design elements of a certain era, while keeping current.

  • Komet17 | May 15, 2010 at 9:19 am |

    [quote comment=”390245″]Phil, word is the jockstraps weren’t tight enough either. Come on, man, most of your criticisms are fine, but players don’t wear their uniforms that tight anymore. Nor, I’m sure, were the unis made out of ’70s-vintage double-knit. Did you type this piece wearing a leisure suit?[/quote]

    …on a Royal manual typewriter?

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 9:25 am |

    I guess I’m with Kek.

    Probably should be a middle ground. A difference between full-fledged TBTC and “seeing what today’s game would look like with yesterday’s uni designs.”

    Can’t really fault someone for not accomplishing something they never set out to do, can we?

    It’s like telling a couple who’s dating that they have a shitty marriage. To which they would rightly respond, “Huh?”

    —Ricko

  • Kek | May 15, 2010 at 9:37 am |

    [quote comment=”390248″]I guess I’m with Kek.

    Probably should be a middle ground. A difference between full-fledged TBTC and “seeing what today’s game would look like with yesterday’s uni designs.”

    Can’t really fault someone for not accomplishing something they never set out to do, can we?

    It’s like telling a couple who’s dating that they have a shitty marriage. To which they would rightly respond, “Huh?”

    —Ricko[/quote]
    It’s like Paul has said before, we’re a very small niche group.

    I follow a few friends that are from Philly/NJ on twitter and are Phils’ fans, they LOVED seeing the old unis.

    I think that’s the overall attitude if you took a poll, not nitpicking as to whether the cut of the uni is too big, if they wore buttons or not, etc.

    But I respect your opinion Phil and we need people with similar opinions to keep the debate going, because we could get to a point where throwback-look evolves into something really bad, with absolutely no accuracy whatsoever.

  • Gusto44 | May 15, 2010 at 9:37 am |

    Very interesting Pirates redesign and use of the striping on the hats and jersey. I still like a touch of red in the uniforms, and a return of the all black uniform from that world championship era. Another viable option for alternates, would be the sharp gold pinstripe uniform. I think an interesting uniform research question would be if any major or minor league team ever had gold pinstripes. I wish the current Pirates uniform set would drop those black pinstripes they wear on Sundays.

  • Patrick | May 15, 2010 at 9:45 am |

    To the guy that made the Buffalo Bills uniform tweek. Fax that to Buffalo right away. To me it looks like the perfect blend of old and new.

  • LI Phil | May 15, 2010 at 9:48 am |

    just a quick word here…

    i knew i’d take shit from people for wanting the throwbacks to look “like they did when they actually wore the uniforms”…and that’s fine

    a couple years ago when the lakers attempted to replicate their magic/kareem years, and wore short shorts (which weren’t that short)…we laughed and pointed fingers at them

    but look at that pic again…or another one from that game…i’ll be the first to admit it looks really bad…but part of the reason is they did it half-assed: they wore shirts that are three sizes too big…when worn properly, with a properly fitting shirt, those shorts (yes, they’re short) look fine…i dare anyone on here to say kareem and magic didn’t wear that uni well

    part of the fun/joy of throwbacks is to “see” them again…for about three pitches last night, i enjoyed seeing them…but when they wore them like they did, it wasn’t even fun anymore, it was, literally, hard to watch

    i know what douggie’s saying about poetic license…fine…if you like something like that, enjoy…it’s just another alt, anyway, right?

    but, i donno…maybe im fucked up or too old or old school or whatever…but if we possess the knowledge, technology and ability to DO SOMETHING RIGHT, then shouldn’t we?

    when did this “ah, they looked fine” mentality start permeating everything? when did “it’s close enough” or “that’s good enough for me” replace “is that the best they could do?” as the mantra of the day?

    im sorry, but i believe in “do it right or don’t do it at all”

    which is why my desire to see certain teams try a darker monochrome uniform on a rare occasion is fraught with such trepidation…they’ll end up wearing the uniforms like they did last night, and it will look like complete shit

    styles evolve and change…i get that…but seeing unis worn with oversized shirts, pajamas and no stirrups completely takes the fun out of these throwback games for me

    and it was an underwood, not a royal ;)

  • Ben | May 15, 2010 at 9:55 am |

    the guess the scoreboard answer- http://www.baseball-...

    It’s the 2005 All-Star game in Detroit where the American League beat the National 7-5.

    I wish I could give away how I figured it out. But now I was the first on two consecutive weekends.

  • Jerry | May 15, 2010 at 9:57 am |

    Guess the scoredboad is the 2005 All-Star game. Didn’t have to look it up, knew if off the top of my head.

  • Jerry | May 15, 2010 at 9:59 am |

    [quote comment=”390238″]I watched part of that Brewers game last night. It was actually kind of awesome seeing those Phillies unis…but I agree about the pj pants. After seeing them back in the day, those powder blues just don’t look right unless they are tight and paired with stirrups.

    Ok, last night, the Marlins wore Los Marlins on their jerseys. How is it not a slap to Hispanics when a sports team does the half-ass thing and just slaps “Los” on their jersey and uses the English team name?[/quote]

    For some teams, that how its done on ESPN Deportes. Los Marlins, is how they pronounce it on ESPN Deportes. Same with Los Suns, El Heat, etc….

  • JTH | May 15, 2010 at 10:00 am |

    [quote comment=”390252″]and it was an underwood, not a royal ;)[/quote]
    And you uploaded the post via TWX, right?

    Word of advice: step up to the IBM Selectric.

  • JimV19 | May 15, 2010 at 10:10 am |

    “I also had ALL of the USFL helmets made, but ran out of room, so I sold off the less meaningful ones,”

    There’s no such thing as a less meaningful USFL helmet! Of course I want to see all the ones you still have. Great collection, Dave.

  • Champ | May 15, 2010 at 10:22 am |

    I turned on the Phils-Brewers game last night on MLB Network and all I could think of was “Wow – throwback powder blues… AWESOME!!!” I understand a lot of people’s gripes about the throwbacks just not recreating an era-appropriate look but I can in no way knock any player for wearing a uniform the way that he wants to wear it. HIs job is to play baseball, not to be a uniform historian.

    The players in last night’s game did not look like players from the 1970’s because they are not the same players (except for Moyer, of course). They don’t have the same hair styles, facial hair, or body types of those who were playing 30-40 years ago. Would it be great to see someone sport an afro or mustache and rock some old school sunglasses for a 1970’s throwback game? Absolutely. But most players are creatures of habit. They try to do things the same way, not just on the field but in their preparation, including the way the get dressed.

    Many offices have hawaiian shirt days. It doesn’t mean you get to sit in a lounge chair and have muay thais at work; you still have a real job to do. The throwbacks are just a marketing ploy and a distraction for the fans. Baseball players can have some fun with the way they dress for throwback games, but, ultimately, their job is to perform well on the field. If wearing a baggy uniform makes them feel comfortable, that’s what is important because the batter should be worried about hitting and the pitcher about pitching; not whether their pants are going to split since they’re so tight or whether the tight sleeves are going to restrict their range of motion or how to keep their pants/socks/stirrups from falling into an annoying position on their leg/foot. If Prince Fielder or Ryan Howard are going to feel uncomfortable wearing tight uniforms, then their managers would be crazy to force them to do so.

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 10:24 am |

    [quote comment=”390256″][quote comment=”390252″]and it was an underwood, not a royal ;)[/quote]
    And you uploaded the post via TWX, right?

    Word of advice: step up to the IBM Selectric.[/quote]

    Phil’s still amazed by Liquid Paper.
    But the damn stuff’s getting hard to find.

    PHIL AT OFFICE MAX: I’m looking for Liquid Paper.
    20-SOMETHING CLERK: Huh?

    —Ricko

  • Kev | May 15, 2010 at 10:25 am |

    I almost hate reading this blog after throwback games because I know the fun is going to be sucked out of my memory. *Disclaimer: Just because I said this, please refrain from using the “then don’t read the blog” comments. I love this site, regardless of whatever my wife thinks about my fawning over DIY projects and new uniform unveilings.

    Last night’s Phillies game was awesome to watch and made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. While I agree that the Phils could/should have gone all-in on the helmets and jackets, the rest isn’t worth fretting about. Other than the major pajama violators like Prince Fielder and Jayson Werth, who always look stupid no matter the uniform, I don’t mind the baggy pants. I share your love for seeing real stirrups (not colored socks), but the tight pants you are clamoring for is silly. Uniwatch even had a piece in the last few weeks about how baggy pants are simply more comfortable for playing than any other style.
    As a side note, I am a diehard Phillies fan, but those gorgeous Brewers throwbacks might persuade me into buying one.

  • Javier | May 15, 2010 at 10:25 am |

    The Phils looked incredible last night (except for the batting helmet). The phillies should keep this look. Booooooooo to Paul for ripping the Phillies but then again he is a Met fan with no clue about baseball. I’m done with this website. All Mets all the time, the one day its about Philly and Paul rips them! Go Flyers!

  • Joel | May 15, 2010 at 10:27 am |

    Love the Pirate re-dos!

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 10:32 am |

    As near as I figure, after deciphering rpm’s ee cummingsesque comments of last night, this undrafted guy is feeling a little like Brady Quinn this morning…
    http://farm4.static....

    ;)

    (4.5 hr drive to Dyersville from here. Anyone who wants to fly into MSP can ride down with me.)

    —Ricko

  • JimV19 | May 15, 2010 at 10:38 am |

    [quote comment=”390252″]a couple years ago when the lakers attempted to replicate their magic/kareem years, and wore short shorts (which weren’t that short)…we laughed and pointed fingers at them

    when did this “ah, they looked fine” mentality start permeating everything? when did “it’s close enough” or “that’s good enough for me” replace “is that the best they could do?” as the mantra of the day?

    im sorry, but i believe in “do it right or don’t do it at all”[/quote]

    How did I miss that Lakers tribute? That’s fantastic! And yes, it’s good enough for me.

    As a recovering perfectionist, I have backed away from the “do it right or don’t do it at all” camp. Too much has changed to expect everything to be period-perfect…especially for a one-off event.

    Just be glad they’re doing throwback days instead of turn-ahead-the-clock days all the time.

    Per Phil’s request, I won’t spoil things by getting into details, but my latest project sums up my feelings on this. I built (re-built, actually) something for today’s family gathering. It looks nice, but it has some quirks due to the materials I had at hand. Basically, I wasn’t going to spend a ton of money on something that wasn’t going to get a lot of use, so I used what I had and it turned out OK.

    The Phils/Brewers game could be looked at the same way. The teams did a good enough job to bring back some memories, using the players they had at hand (what are you gonna do, cut the players who wore pajama pants?).

    The older I get, the more I’ve started to separate things. There are certain things that are non-negotiable and perfection is still the goal (how I proofread someone’s writing, how I paint a wall or clean a dish, etc.). For everything else, sometimes “close enough” is good enough for me.

  • somark37 | May 15, 2010 at 10:40 am |

    Love this blog…had no idea there was a community that shares my obsession with this stuff. Anyway: I’m fairly riled about the way big leaguers dress these days. The oversized pajamas many of them wear these days is laughable yet irritating. My pet peeve, though, are the kids (pitchers, mostly) who wear Frisbees on their heads instead of caps. They have no idea how ridiculous they look, all while shooting for “cool”. I also hate the low-profile caps and think New Era oughtta ditch the 39-30 model forever. Yeah, I’m old (49) but I still play amateur ball and I dress the right way.

  • LI Phil | May 15, 2010 at 10:43 am |

    [quote comment=”390261″]The Phils looked incredible last night (except for the batting helmet). The phillies should keep this look. Booooooooo to Paul for ripping the Phillies but then again he is a Met fan with no clue about baseball. I’m done with this website. All Mets all the time, the one day its about Philly and Paul rips them! Go Flyers![/quote]

    i shouldn’t even deign to give this a response, but since you obviously didn’t read even the by-line i will

    if you’re ever read any of my stuff, i certainly don’t single out philly (and i bash the mets uniforms FAR MORE than i praise them)…i LOVED the new eagle throwbacks (wrote about them monday)…

    so: don’t blame paul for this piece, and two, i didn’t bash the PHILLIES any more than i bashed the brewers (or any other team that throws back), i bashed the players for wearing the old unis in this style and the manufacturers for kowtowing to their egos…and in fact, the player i praised the most WAS a philly — jamie moyer

    you’re entitled to your opinion and it is always welcome

    but please at least have some of the facts straight

    thanks

  • JimV19 | May 15, 2010 at 10:44 am |

    [quote comment=”390263″]As near as I figure, after deciphering rpm’s ee cummingsesque comments of last night, this undrafted guy is feeling a little like Brady Quinn this morning…
    http://farm4.static....

    ;)

    (4.5 hr drive to Dyersville from here. Anyone who wants to fly into MSP can ride down with me.)

    —Ricko[/quote]

    You didn’t get drafted and I did? Travesty. You can take my place at first base. My depth perception is a little off, so you’d do better at the plate. I’ll come out of the pen as a knuckleballing middle reliever.

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 10:45 am |

    We have discussed many times that here are different uni paradigms for different sports. Y’know, baseball colors come from the hats, sleeves, etc., not from the jersey color.

    Well, yesterday I saw a perfect example to sort of prove the point. The Ohio State women’s softball team wears silver batting helmets. Silver, like the football team. Just looked SO wrong.

    Can you imagine the yowling if the White Sox, say, went to silver batting helmets?

    Or the Brewers to metallic gold? (Yeah, okay, they might look like beer bubbles, but that’s not the point).

    —Ricko

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 10:54 am |

    They look much more “silvery-er” on TV than they do in this photo…

    http://a.espncdn.com...

    —Ric

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 10:56 am |

    How ’bout THESE helmets…?
    http://badgerherald....

    —Ricko

  • JTH | May 15, 2010 at 10:56 am |

    [quote comment=”390265″]My pet peeve, though, are the kids (pitchers, mostly) who wear Frisbees on their heads instead of caps.[/quote]
    Frisbees? That is a great analogy. Has that one been used here before?

  • sw | May 15, 2010 at 11:02 am |

    I completely, 100% agree with Phil. If a team is going to go to the trouble to wear designs of the past, the uniforms must fit like they did in the past, or they don’t look at all like the team from their history they are trying to commemorate. Isn’t that the point of wearing throwbacks? If you’re not going to do it right, don’t do it at all.

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 11:02 am |

    [quote comment=”390271″][quote comment=”390265″]My pet peeve, though, are the kids (pitchers, mostly) who wear Frisbees on their heads instead of caps.[/quote]
    Frisbees? That is a great analogy. Has that one been used here before?[/quote]

    Or the “Oddjob” look.
    Y’know, fling it at a statue and slice off the head?

    —Ricko

  • BH | May 15, 2010 at 11:05 am |

    Um, does anyone remember the reason why they were having a game last night? To, you know, play baseball? NOT to meet somebody’s arbitrary standards about how uniforms 40 years ago supposedly “should” look. If players are more comfortable wearing big jerseys or baggy pants or non-stirrups, shouldn’t we be all for that? Shouldn’t we support what the players want? After all, it’s their job to hit and throw a 95-MPH fastball… Who gives a crap whether they look like they did in the 70s while they’re trying to do that or not? Forcing Ryan Howard to wear a skin-tight uniform would be asking him to hamper his performance so that you can feel better about the way he looks. When put that way, doesn’t that sound insane?

  • JTH | May 15, 2010 at 11:08 am |

    [quote comment=”390267″][quote comment=”390263″]As near as I figure, after deciphering rpm’s ee cummingsesque comments of last night, this undrafted guy is feeling a little like Brady Quinn this morning…
    http://farm4.static....

    ;)

    (4.5 hr drive to Dyersville from here. Anyone who wants to fly into MSP can ride down with me.)

    —Ricko[/quote]

    You didn’t get drafted and I did? Travesty. You can take my place at first base. My depth perception is a little off, so you’d do better at the plate. I’ll come out of the pen as a knuckleballing middle reliever.[/quote]
    I think what’s sticking in Rick’s craw is that Teh Geoff got drafted ahead him.

    Look alive, Pearson. Team Sami Salo Traxel hasn’t made its picks yet.

  • JTH | May 15, 2010 at 11:08 am |

    …ahead OF him…

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 11:13 am |

    [quote comment=”390275″][quote comment=”390267″][quote comment=”390263″]As near as I figure, after deciphering rpm’s ee cummingsesque comments of last night, this undrafted guy is feeling a little like Brady Quinn this morning…
    http://farm4.static....

    ;)

    (4.5 hr drive to Dyersville from here. Anyone who wants to fly into MSP can ride down with me.)

    —Ricko[/quote]

    You didn’t get drafted and I did? Travesty. You can take my place at first base. My depth perception is a little off, so you’d do better at the plate. I’ll come out of the pen as a knuckleballing middle reliever.[/quote]
    I think what’s sticking in Rick’s craw is that Teh Geoff got drafted ahead him.

    Look alive, Pearson. Team Sami Salo Traxel hasn’t made its picks yet.[/quote]

    Nah. Congrats to The Jeff.
    Was more like, “Jeez, I know I’m old, but I’m not THAT old.”

    I mean, I’m not the Les Nessman pick.
    At least I HOPE I’m not.

    —Rick

  • James Craven | May 15, 2010 at 11:16 am |

    Well Shane Victorino got it right. High pants, stirrups…

    BTW, in the true tradition of complete douchebaggery, a NOB corporate sponsored mesh replica jersey will be given away tonight in Cincinnati.

    This six years before the White Sox were the first to have NOB.

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 11:18 am |

    Traxel? With a “T”, huh.
    Cool, can wear my 1940’s Toledo Mudhens hat.
    Black with a red Old English “T”.

    —Rick

  • James Craven | May 15, 2010 at 11:20 am |

    FA Cup Final notes.

    1. Chelski wearing new blue home kits with red collar and goaler in eye-gouging neon green shirt.
    2. Pompey wearing new change kit (demoted this year) white with maroon and salmon pink (sissy!) trim and goaler in pink shirt as well.

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 11:21 am |

    [quote comment=”390278″]Well Shane Victorino got it right. High pants, stirrups…

    BTW, in the true tradition of complete douchebaggery, a NOB corporate sponsored mesh replica jersey will be given away tonight in Cincinnati.

    This six years before the White Sox were the first to have NOB.[/quote]

    Also almost positive those Reds jerseys didn’t have a navy border on the numbers.

    —Rick

  • James Craven | May 15, 2010 at 11:23 am |

    I can only speak for the front as per Mr. Okkenen and also point out no Mr. Redlegs head on jersey as well.

  • Todd | May 15, 2010 at 11:29 am |

    Yes, you sound like an old fart. Are you forced to wear something you don’t like/feels uncomfortable at your job? Do you have a job that pays $10M annually?

  • Teebz | May 15, 2010 at 11:31 am |

    Just to add to the Field of Dreams game, if we collectively pool some money, we can own the field.

    The family in Dyersville is selling the whole thing for a cool $5.4 million.

  • Jet | May 15, 2010 at 11:33 am |

    I’m with you, Phil. What’s the use of having throwbacks if the players are going to wear them like pajamas? I hate the PJs look.

    I never liked those Phillie powder blues. That color simply does not work with RED. When you have dark blue as the contrast color with powder blue, a la the early Pittsburgh Penguins or more recently the KC Royals, that looks sharp. But red? Ughhh.

    The Brewer throwbacks looked decent enough.

    -Jet

  • Jet | May 15, 2010 at 11:34 am |

    Are you guys using a template for the UW column? It seems you keep misspelling “Here’s your Saturday Benchies” as “Bencies”.

    -Jet, picking nits… ;)

  • Javier | May 15, 2010 at 11:53 am |

    I guess you didn’t take a pointless shot at Victorino!

    “Two of the Phillies, however, did break out the sweet hosiery (although the rups, while period correct, are a bit too high for my liking). Shane Victorino, who looked a bit like a kid who’d never worn stirrups before, played along.”

    Sorry, I didn’t notice that Phil wrote this instead of Mr. Met himself Paul. Please blog about what an idiot Reyes looks like on a daily basis. Uniwatch is so pro Mets is annoying.

  • Jeff | May 15, 2010 at 11:58 am |

    [quote comment=”390237″]Picking up the discussion from late last night (initiated by rpm, I believe) regarding a UW softball game at the FIELD OF DREAMS movie site down in Dyersville, Iowa this summer…

    I’m in. Just let me know when.

    And, yes, for THAT game I’ll go high cuffed, definitely.

    —Ricko[/quote]
    Me, too. Dyersville is just across the border from Wisconsin.

  • Jeff | May 15, 2010 at 12:01 pm |

    Phil writes: “I’m not sure if they ever wore that big an “M,” (my memory is somewhat faulty), but I always thought it was more like what Hammerin’ Hank sported.”

    You are correct, Phil. That big M on the helmets was ridiculous. Certainly not what they wore in the ’70s.

  • mike 2 | May 15, 2010 at 12:17 pm |

    Put me in the “close enough” camp.

    Would I prefer that they got these details right? Absolutely. It bugs me that they can’t be bothered to get the small details right, that they can’t do batting helmets, etc.

    But would I prefer that they didn’t do it at all. Absolutely not. Its still fun for a night even if its not perfect.

  • JTH | May 15, 2010 at 12:29 pm |

    [quote comment=”390279″]Traxel? With a “T”, huh.
    Cool, can wear my 1940’s Toledo Mudhens hat.
    Black with a red Old English “T”.

    —Rick[/quote]
    Make sure you’ve got the proper footwear.

  • traxel | May 15, 2010 at 12:32 pm |

    Well, I go to sleep last night to make sure I’m ready for this very important two day two man scramble in the rain today…just now I go back to catch up on the overnight banter…and find out I missed at least 10 rounds of an improptu draft for the FoD pilgrimage. rpm~ can I at least have Ricko? I need someone on the team who has played in the last 10 years. I think it’s been 14 for me. Ricko has that tall version of Jimmy Leyland look about him. Pays attention to the details. A good scout. Since I missed the draft I’ll need him as a Don Kessinger player coach to help with tryouts. If anyone comes ghosting out of the cornfield, they’re mine. Oh yeah, and anyone from the state of Iowa is mine too. I’ll be accepting resumes too. BTW, you gave me the Teebowski and then you drafted him. You gotta explain that one to me, brotha. I’m already playin under protest.

  • traxel | May 15, 2010 at 12:54 pm |

    By the way Ricko, I wrote that above before reading today’s comments. You are my #1 pick and you didn’t even have to ask. You wouldn’t want to be on that fool’s squad anyway. JTH, are you sleeping with the enemy or with the good guys? All Missouri people are with the Traxacutioners, unless they wear paint speckled clothing. And our fearless leader, the one having the stoop sale, was he drafted in this unsanctioned farce?

  • interlockingtc | May 15, 2010 at 12:55 pm |

    [quote comment=”390252″]just a quick word here…

    when did this “ah, they looked fine” mentality start permeating everything? when did “it’s close enough” or “that’s good enough for me” replace “is that the best they could do?” as the mantra of the day?

    im sorry, but i believe in “do it right or don’t do it at all”

    [/quote]

    Precisely.

    Honestly, with any endeavor–whether it be mowing the lawn or teaching a child to tie his shoes or trying to make a relationship work or negotiating a wet, icy road or writing an email or re-creating a sports uniform from a specific period–we often settle for less than our best effort. Why?

    It’s called laziness. Our motive is convenience. It’s part of our DNA. We’ve all got it in us. But it can kill us.

    Maybe that is what Phil is getting at?

    But, the good thing is that we can choose to not be lazy. We can push ourselves beyond laziness and the average and the merely good, the satisfactory. We can stretch our imagination and skill and creativity and intellect and curiosity because life is short and we’ve all got it in us and let’s see what we can do because it’s invigorating and fun and inspiring.

    We can choose to recreate a uniform as accurately as we possibly can because we love the game and its history and we have the time and money and means to do it and why not, why not be great? Why settle for lazy? The average?

  • Adam | May 15, 2010 at 1:01 pm |

    In cases of players’ uniforms getting hit by pitches, oversized jerseys should be prima facie evidence that the player made no attempt to get out of the way and deny him first base. If he can’t even wear a uniform that fits, why should we believe he did anything at all to avoid being hit?

    Would love to watch Howard’s or Fielder’s fit the first time an umpire calls a ball when the circus tent he’s wearing gets hit. Unfortunately umpires don’t even follow that rule in the most egregious cases, let alone this liberal interpretation of it.

  • Teebz | May 15, 2010 at 1:15 pm |

    [quote comment=”390292″]Well, I go to sleep last night to make sure I’m ready for this very important two day two man scramble in the rain today…just now I go back to catch up on the overnight banter…and find out I missed at least 10 rounds of an improptu draft for the FoD pilgrimage. rpm~ can I at least have Ricko? I need someone on the team who has played in the last 10 years. I think it’s been 14 for me. Ricko has that tall version of Jimmy Leyland look about him. Pays attention to the details. A good scout. Since I missed the draft I’ll need him as a Don Kessinger player coach to help with tryouts. If anyone comes ghosting out of the cornfield, they’re mine. Oh yeah, and anyone from the state of Iowa is mine too. I’ll be accepting resumes too. BTW, you gave me the Teebowski and then you drafted him. You gotta explain that one to me, brotha. I’m already playin under protest.[/quote]

    I’ll go to the highest bidder. We Canadians may play nice, but we’re sonsuvbeeches to deal with when it comes to contracts. LOL

  • StLMarty | May 15, 2010 at 1:20 pm |

    The “inaccurate” throwback is not really an issue for me. In a world where 85% of the uniforms look like shit, those throwbacks are the least of my worries.

    As honored as I was to be selected in the ninth round last night, that is a pilgrimage I probably would not take. I’m just going to go ahead and say it. I have never gotten through ten minutes of “Field of Dreams”. That’s nine minutes more than I can take of Kevin Costner. He was good in “Night Shift”. Probably because he didn’t speak. My apologies for spitting on sacred ground. I’m not a bad person.

    I am from Missouri. However, if I were to play, I would be playing for Robertmarshall. One word name.

  • Christopher | May 15, 2010 at 1:24 pm |

    I can see your point about wearing yesterday’s cut with yesterday’s uniform. However, I completely understand that a player wants to be as comfortable as possible. Any distractions may lead to worse play. And they are playing in a real game that counts.

    While I don’t play baseball at all, I personally would HATE to wear any uniform in a 70s cut. Way too tight. I can’t stand tight jeans, small shirts, any of that. Makes me cringe. I would absolutely play worse because I’d be very uncomfortable.

  • JTH | May 15, 2010 at 1:26 pm |

    [quote comment=”390293″]JTH, are you sleeping with the enemy?[/quote]
    No way. His couch is way too uncomfortable.

  • thom | May 15, 2010 at 1:27 pm |

    saturday tweeks
    1.Pirates- awesome love the pill box style on hats and add to jerseys
    2.Capitals- they don’tdo the ‘a’ because it looks stupid that way
    3.Bills-great logo but what about a secondary logo?

  • The Jeff | May 15, 2010 at 1:27 pm |

    [quote comment=”390270″]How ’bout THESE helmets…?
    http://badgerherald....

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Those are just awesome. A little odd, but awesome.

  • The Jeff | May 15, 2010 at 1:33 pm |

    [quote comment=”390277″][quote comment=”390275″][quote comment=”390267″][quote comment=”390263″]As near as I figure, after deciphering rpm’s ee cummingsesque comments of last night, this undrafted guy is feeling a little like Brady Quinn this morning…
    http://farm4.static....

    ;)

    (4.5 hr drive to Dyersville from here. Anyone who wants to fly into MSP can ride down with me.)

    —Ricko[/quote]

    You didn’t get drafted and I did? Travesty. You can take my place at first base. My depth perception is a little off, so you’d do better at the plate. I’ll come out of the pen as a knuckleballing middle reliever.[/quote]
    I think what’s sticking in Rick’s craw is that Teh Geoff got drafted ahead him.

    Look alive, Pearson. Team Sami Salo Traxel hasn’t made its picks yet.[/quote]

    Nah. Congrats to The Jeff.
    Was more like, “Jeez, I know I’m old, but I’m not THAT old.”

    I mean, I’m not the Les Nessman pick.
    At least I HOPE I’m not.

    —Rick[/quote]

    Wait… what?

    I’m going to have to go back and re-read yesterday’s comments or something. I have no idea what draft you guys are talking about. :(

  • ren | May 15, 2010 at 1:34 pm |

    apparently the florida marlins will wear the los marlins jersey every friday home game

  • Jet | May 15, 2010 at 2:25 pm |

    [quote comment=”390298″]

    While I don’t play baseball at all, I personally would HATE to wear any uniform in a 70s cut. Way too tight. I can’t stand tight jeans, small shirts, any of that. Makes me cringe. I would absolutely play worse because I’d be very uncomfortable.[/quote]
    I acknowledge that the tight fit of 70’s polyester would be uncomfortable (I loathe polyester clothing), I’d like to see a happy medium between that and the pajama fit of today.

    Regardless of throwback or a modern design, I can’t compromise on the pajama look. A baseball uniform absolutely has to have pants that end below the knee, with stirrups that contain some sort of STRIPE pattern. This is a non-negotiable issue for me. Anything less than this is not a baseball uniform, and deserves only my contempt.

    -Jet

  • Will S | May 15, 2010 at 2:31 pm |

    It’s posts like this that have made me only read the weekend posts every few weeks. When Paul writes it’s obviously opinionated, but in an open, “this is what I personally think, but it may not be what you think” way. When Phil writes, he comes across as an arrogant jerk who knows more than anybody else who reads this site. To me, he says, “This is what I personally think, and if it’s not what you personally think, then you’re horribly wrong.” Personally, I’m not a Brewers or a Phillies fan, but I do love baseball in general, and I was perfectly content to watch this game last night. It was fun for me to see the old uniforms in a way that mixed it up a little. To wear the home whites and road grays for 81 games each seems a little excessive for me, so I love it when teams wear alternates, because it brings a little bit of fun to the game. Instead of appreciating the effort and enjoying the fun, it appears to me that Phil made a conscious effort to be a stickler about this, and the response that he wrote, while well informed, was bitter and left me offended. Phil is definitely a great uniform historian, and I think he’s proved that, but maybe he should be a little less bitter too. I wish that instead of Phil on weekends, we could see a rotation between some of the All-Star commenters and readers, such as Ricko, Teebz, and JTH. It would be a lot of fun to read and interesting to hear some other opinions at the same time. For the meantime, I guess that I’ll be staying away from Phil’s posts for good.

  • StLMarty | May 15, 2010 at 2:45 pm |

    [quote comment=”390305″]It’s posts like this that have made me only read the weekend posts every few weeks. When Paul writes it’s obviously opinionated, but in an open, “this is what I personally think, but it may not be what you think” way. When Phil writes, he comes across as an arrogant jerk who knows more than anybody else who reads this site. To me, he says, “This is what I personally think, and if it’s not what you personally think, then you’re horribly wrong.” Personally, I’m not a Brewers or a Phillies fan, but I do love baseball in general, and I was perfectly content to watch this game last night. It was fun for me to see the old uniforms in a way that mixed it up a little. To wear the home whites and road grays for 81 games each seems a little excessive for me, so I love it when teams wear alternates, because it brings a little bit of fun to the game. Instead of appreciating the effort and enjoying the fun, it appears to me that Phil made a conscious effort to be a stickler about this, and the response that he wrote, while well informed, was bitter and left me offended. Phil is definitely a great uniform historian, and I think he’s proved that, but maybe he should be a little less bitter too. I wish that instead of Phil on weekends, we could see a rotation between some of the All-Star commenters and readers, such as Ricko, Teebz, and JTH. It would be a lot of fun to read and interesting to hear some other opinions at the same time. For the meantime, I guess that I’ll be staying away from Phil’s posts for good.[/quote]
    Wowie wo wo’s!
    Now that’s bitter.

  • flip | May 15, 2010 at 3:27 pm |

    [quote comment=”390304″][quote comment=”390298″]

    While I don’t play baseball at all, I personally would HATE to wear any uniform in a 70s cut. Way too tight. I can’t stand tight jeans, small shirts, any of that. Makes me cringe. I would absolutely play worse because I’d be very uncomfortable.[/quote]
    I acknowledge that the tight fit of 70’s polyester would be uncomfortable (I loathe polyester clothing), I’d like to see a happy medium between that and the pajama fit of today.

    Regardless of throwback or a modern design, I can’t compromise on the pajama look. A baseball uniform absolutely has to have pants that end below the knee, with stirrups that contain some sort of STRIPE pattern. This is a non-negotiable issue for me. Anything less than this is not a baseball uniform, and deserves only my contempt.

    -Jet[/quote]

    Here’s the deal: The pull-over polyester era may have been a tad too tight, but that picture of Ryan Howard shows the ridiculousness of the pajama look. Is it possible to have a tailored look? I’m looking at you CC Sabathia. You, too, Prince Fielder.

    As Ricko pointed out, the pants down look is OK, particularly since the shoe stripes have so many look-at-me stripes. I love stirrups and I love striped stirrups, but the way Barry Zito wears his triple stripes up near his knees, please, pull down the elastic.

  • Scott Davis | May 15, 2010 at 3:46 pm |

    Great sporcle quiz today:

    http://www.sporcle.c...

  • Rich | May 15, 2010 at 3:47 pm |

    “It’s tough to tell, but it appears they went with the closed loop logo on the jerseys, more closely approximating the 1987-1988 jersey”

    You missed this one. It’s not the closed loop. They got it right. It’s easy to tell because the closed loop forms a baseball.

  • Josh Petty | May 15, 2010 at 3:48 pm |

    I just have a quick question about the throwback game. I’ve seen it several places here where people have said that the Phillies should’ve gotten the throwback helmets. Maybe I’m wrong, but wasn’t the throwback uniforms for both teams the Brewers’ responsibility? Since they were the home team, sponsoring throwback promotion, I always thought it was their responsibility to have the uniforms ready for both teams.

  • Teebz | May 15, 2010 at 4:39 pm |

    [quote comment=”390305″]It’s posts like this that have made me only read the weekend posts every few weeks. When Paul writes it’s obviously opinionated, but in an open, “this is what I personally think, but it may not be what you think” way. When Phil writes, he comes across as an arrogant jerk who knows more than anybody else who reads this site. To me, he says, “This is what I personally think, and if it’s not what you personally think, then you’re horribly wrong.” Personally, I’m not a Brewers or a Phillies fan, but I do love baseball in general, and I was perfectly content to watch this game last night. It was fun for me to see the old uniforms in a way that mixed it up a little. To wear the home whites and road grays for 81 games each seems a little excessive for me, so I love it when teams wear alternates, because it brings a little bit of fun to the game. Instead of appreciating the effort and enjoying the fun, it appears to me that Phil made a conscious effort to be a stickler about this, and the response that he wrote, while well informed, was bitter and left me offended. Phil is definitely a great uniform historian, and I think he’s proved that, but maybe he should be a little less bitter too. I wish that instead of Phil on weekends, we could see a rotation between some of the All-Star commenters and readers, such as Ricko, Teebz, and JTH. It would be a lot of fun to read and interesting to hear some other opinions at the same time. For the meantime, I guess that I’ll be staying away from Phil’s posts for good.[/quote]

    I comment every day on something hockey. I write my own blog. LOL

  • Sam | May 15, 2010 at 4:39 pm |

    Awesome helmets! One very minor quibble on the Bradshaw helmet – he did not wear a 2 point chin strap, only a 1 point (i.e. one snap on each end).

  • Clayton Lust | May 15, 2010 at 5:00 pm |

    Folks, I think some of you should relax – take yoga, switch to decaf, something.

    I am firmly in the “happy medium” place, in that I can accept that the style of the 70’s was not so comfortable and the fewer distractions the better. But from a graphics and detail standard I think Phil’s “close enough” point is well taken. There are very few endeavors were “close enough” is enough – go to school, half-ass it with your studying, and tell the professor “close enough” – you’ll get “close enough” to passing. Go to your boss with a half assed presentation or sales figures and announce “close enough.” It generally won’t work.

    As a fan, if you see those unis and say “close enough, I had fun” that’s cool. You weren’t charged with getting it right, you enjoyed what you saw, and that’s all well and good. Where I think Phil’s coming from is that it is a) the teams’ jobs to get it right, and b) for crying out loud, they have the unis, even if in pictures, at their disposal – it’s not hard to get it right, nor is it to much to ask for.

    To my original point though, I don’t know where some of you are coming from. A Mets bias? Yeah, they are Mets fans (congrats on breaking that code)but Paul and Phil (and others) CRUSH the Mets on a near daily basis (for the same reasons I might add – see the discussion on the faux-back vs throw back cream pinstripes). And as far as being offended by the column, really? Offended by a column? About uniforms? Seriously, you’re really offended?

  • Clayton Lust | May 15, 2010 at 5:03 pm |

    [quote comment=”390314″] There are very few endeavors were “close enough” is enough [/quote]

    or rather, there are few endeavors WHERE close enough is enough.

  • Jim BC | May 15, 2010 at 5:11 pm |

    [quote comment=”390305″]It’s posts like this that have made me only read the weekend posts every few weeks. When Paul writes it’s obviously opinionated, but in an open, “this is what I personally think, but it may not be what you think” way. When Phil writes, he comes across as an arrogant jerk who knows more than anybody else who reads this site. To me, he says, “This is what I personally think, and if it’s not what you personally think, then you’re horribly wrong.” Personally, I’m not a Brewers or a Phillies fan, but I do love baseball in general, and I was perfectly content to watch this game last night. It was fun for me to see the old uniforms in a way that mixed it up a little. To wear the home whites and road grays for 81 games each seems a little excessive for me, so I love it when teams wear alternates, because it brings a little bit of fun to the game. Instead of appreciating the effort and enjoying the fun, it appears to me that Phil made a conscious effort to be a stickler about this, and the response that he wrote, while well informed, was bitter and left me offended. Phil is definitely a great uniform historian, and I think he’s proved that, but maybe he should be a little less bitter too. I wish that instead of Phil on weekends, we could see a rotation between some of the All-Star commenters and readers, such as Ricko, Teebz, and JTH. It would be a lot of fun to read and interesting to hear some other opinions at the same time. For the meantime, I guess that I’ll be staying away from Phil’s posts for good.[/quote]
    Everyone’s entitled to their opinion and here’s mine. I appreciate Phil’s weekend posts and read them regularly. Why? Because they are an interesting read. I don’t always agree with his assessments but so what?

    Today’s is a good example. It’s obvious that Phil wasn’t impressed with the Brewers/Phillies but rather than posting a few photos and saying “They both sucked”, Phil, as always, provides a detailed explanation. And, to be fair, he did point out positives like Moyer’s efforts.

    And finally, you’re “offended”? “Annoyed” maybe or even “disappointed”, but “offended”? We talking unis here!

    Keep up the good work Phil!

  • BurghFan | May 15, 2010 at 5:30 pm |

    I was at two championship commemorations last year. For the 1909 game, it was interesting to see Freddy Sanchez with different length pant legs at time, and at varying heights from inning to inning. It was disappointing not to see any socks when the Pirates did their 1979 throwbacks. There is a happy medium, though – we don’t expect players to wear 1909-style gloves or go helmetless.

    Does Majestic deserve some of the blame for an inability to design or manufacture some of these things correctly?

  • BurghFan | May 15, 2010 at 5:32 pm |

    …at the same time…

    Sorry.

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 6:10 pm |

    I don’t know that Phil has to say, “In my opinion” in every sentence of what is, obviously, an opinion piece.

    As to “pro Mets” for perceived potshots at the Phillies. Seriously?

    With regard to Shane Victorino looking like a kid wearing stirrups for the first time…
    a) with his high tops, he did.
    b) that may well BE the first time he’s ever worn such stirrups.

    How either of those observations would make me “pro Mets” is beyond me. Except, I suppose, to a Phillies fan.

    —Ricko

  • Mark K | May 15, 2010 at 6:39 pm |

    The only thing that bothered me was the curly part of the P logo seems way too light- in fact in some of the photos it can barely be seen at all.

    That part of the logo is supposed to be baseball stitching, isn’t it?

  • Mark K | May 15, 2010 at 6:43 pm |

    [quote comment=”390320″]The only thing that bothered me was the curly part of the P logo seems way too light- in fact in some of the photos it can barely be seen at all.

    That part of the logo is supposed to be baseball stitching, isn’t it?[/quote]
    Oh nevermind- I see on DTTN that the logo changed at some point in the late 70s. The newer version is better “in my opinion”.

  • Gretchen | May 15, 2010 at 7:49 pm |

    In today’s NCAA D1 lacrosse tournament –
    Cornell with TLSOB (team logo subscript on back)

    Mount St. Mary’s with TNOH (team nickname on helmet) (“The Mount” on the back of their helmets).

    I welcome anyone who can post screen grabs.

  • Terry D. | May 15, 2010 at 7:59 pm |

    The Cardinals are wearing their current socks instead of the 1947 stirrups in the Civil Rights game. Grrrr…

  • Robert Tivari | May 15, 2010 at 8:00 pm |

    I agree with this article. I DESPISE the baggy jerseys and pajama pants worn by todays MLB players, especially during throwback games. I don’t buy the “more comfortable” argument either. I for one find tighter clothes to be much more comfortable. I blame this baggy clothes phenomenon on the rise of rap and hip-hop music. Sports uniforms should look like UNIFORMS, not something that looks like it belongs on the set of a Jay-Z video. Bring back uniforms that actually FIT.

  • James Craven | May 15, 2010 at 8:06 pm |

    At least sans the Civil Rights Game logos on the hats and jerseys, and save for the PJ pants and red shoes on the Redbirds, everything else spot on.

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 9:07 pm |

    Anyone looking for one of these?
    The seller has them in several sizes.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/...

    —Ricko

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 9:10 pm |

    or these?
    http://stores.ebay.c...

    —Ricko

  • PL4 | May 15, 2010 at 9:29 pm |

    Since it ties in with today’s theme, two MAC teams (Bowling Green and Kent State) did the throwback thing today. This story has a little info and pictures, plus there is a whole photo gallery. For two mid-major colleges, I think they did fairly well (even with the baggy uniforms).

    http://themacdaily.c...

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 9:30 pm |

    How bad were those red-hatted, powder-blue road Twins teams (and why any long time Twins observer hates the damn things)?
    From “This Day in Baseball” for May 16…

    1984 – The Twins sell 51,863 tickets to their 8-7 loss to the Blue Jays, but only 6,346 fans show up for the game. The skewed numbers are the result of a massive ticket buyout plan organized by Minneapolis businessman Harvey MacKay to keep the Twins in Minnesota; if the club does not sell 2.41 million tickets this season it can break its lease with the Metrodome. Taking advantage of reduced prices on the Family Day promotion, Mackay pays $218,718 for 44,166 tickets.

    —Ricko

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 9:35 pm |

    How much difference can a change of uni make for a player?

    May 15, 1960 – Two days after being traded from the Phillies to the Cubs, Don Cardwell pitches a no-hitter. Two brilliant defensive plays — a leaping catch of Carl Sawatski’s drive by right fielder George Altman in the eighth inning and Walt Moryn’s game-ending sliding grab — save Cardwell’s gem. Ernie Banks’ home run paces the 4-0 win, the first no-hitter against the Cards since May 11, 1919.

    TRIVIA QUESTION….
    Something we still talk about today began on a May 15th. Care to venture a response as to what it was?

    —Ricko

  • Mike Engle | May 15, 2010 at 9:41 pm |

    [quote comment=”390330″]How much difference can a change of uni make for a player?

    May 15, 1960 – Two days after being traded from the Phillies to the Cubs, Don Cardwell pitches a no-hitter. Two brilliant defensive plays — a leaping catch of Carl Sawatski’s drive by right fielder George Altman in the eighth inning and Walt Moryn’s game-ending sliding grab — save Cardwell’s gem. Ernie Banks’ home run paces the 4-0 win, the first no-hitter against the Cards since May 11, 1919.

    TRIVIA QUESTION….
    Something we still talk about today began on a May 15th. Care to venture a response as to what it was?

    —Ricko[/quote]
    I’ll take a guess: Joe DiMaggio’s 56-game hitting streak? (1941, I think. What was that year like, Ricko?)

  • Gusto44 | May 15, 2010 at 9:41 pm |

    [quote comment=”390326″]Anyone looking for one of these?
    The seller has them in several sizes.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/...

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Already have one, but the date is wrong. The Bucs wore that road hat style from 1997-2000. In 1994, the team was still wearing the solid black hat for both home and road contests.

  • odessa steps magazin | May 15, 2010 at 9:43 pm |

    Maybe my “fandom” for things has waned as I grow older, but I appreciate the spirit of the throwbacks, even if they aren’t 100% accurate.

    It would be nice if they could get as close as possible without “half-assing it”, but I’m not going to rant or grouse anymore if the shade of color is slightly off or the stripes aren’t the right thickness or whatever.

  • Wollen1 | May 15, 2010 at 10:03 pm |

    Excuse my language, but those Cardinals throwbacks are the tits. The piping is absolutely classic. The uniform material admittedly looks a bit off (not flannely enough), and the shoulder patch is a tad big, but the players look great, especialy the high-cuffed guys. The Reds unis are very plain, but if any of them were brave enough to go take off their sock burkha pajamas, they may look pretty impressive.

    I realize that some people are sick of throwbacks. I could never get to that point because I really enjoy teams visually celebrating their past. I am disapointed when players refuse to get into the act, but it’s very cool when they do. I hope the Civil Rights Game continues and that the teams wear throwbacks in the future.

  • Bob from MP | May 15, 2010 at 10:03 pm |

    As long as nits are being picked…Phil describes the shirts as “button-down.” The correct term is “button front.”

  • Komet17 | May 15, 2010 at 10:13 pm |

    [quote comment=”390330″]How much difference can a change of uni make for a player?

    May 15, 1960 – Two days after being traded from the Phillies to the Cubs, Don Cardwell pitches a no-hitter. Two brilliant defensive plays — a leaping catch of Carl Sawatski’s drive by right fielder George Altman in the eighth inning and Walt Moryn’s game-ending sliding grab — save Cardwell’s gem. Ernie Banks’ home run paces the 4-0 win, the first no-hitter against the Cards since May 11, 1919.

    TRIVIA QUESTION….
    Something we still talk about today began on a May 15th. Care to venture a response as to what it was?

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Joe Dimaggio began his 56-game hitting streak in 1941.

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 10:41 pm |

    [quote comment=”390336″][quote comment=”390330″]How much difference can a change of uni make for a player?

    May 15, 1960 – Two days after being traded from the Phillies to the Cubs, Don Cardwell pitches a no-hitter. Two brilliant defensive plays — a leaping catch of Carl Sawatski’s drive by right fielder George Altman in the eighth inning and Walt Moryn’s game-ending sliding grab — save Cardwell’s gem. Ernie Banks’ home run paces the 4-0 win, the first no-hitter against the Cards since May 11, 1919.

    TRIVIA QUESTION….
    Something we still talk about today began on a May 15th. Care to venture a response as to what it was?

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Joe Dimaggio began his 56-game hitting streak in 1941.[/quote]

    Yup, you and Mike Engle both got it.

    1941? That was the year I put Ilsa on the plane with Victor, and then Louie and I joined the Free French Garrison over at Brazzaville.

    Hollywood made a movie about it.

    No, wait, that was when I was Rick in another life.

    (Howcum in a former life nobody ever was, oh, I dunno, a chicken sexer in Hondo, Texas?)

    —Ricko

  • Chris | May 15, 2010 at 10:54 pm |

    I check this site occasionally, and I am definitely excited that my high school, La Serna was represented by Mr. Freeman. It kind of made me want to have bought my helmet from the school and created a display similar to his. Nice job, Dave, from a fellow Lancer, class of ’03.

    -Chris

  • Nicholas | May 15, 2010 at 10:58 pm |

    The Cardinals throwbacks against the reds tonight were great! The socks were awesome!!

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 10:59 pm |

    Hope this link works.
    White Sox in their World Series white stirrups…
    http://cache2.asset-...

    —Ricko

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 11:03 pm |

    Don’t see a lot of players built like this anymore…
    http://www.claremont...

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 11:04 pm |

    I LOVED this uni (Indians went to it in ’58).
    Saw the roads in person in’61. Great looking uni.
    http://www.claremont...

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 11:07 pm |

    Oh, the heck with it, I’ll just link to the site.
    I have never seen ANY of these photos before. There’s even one of Zoilo Versalles as a Dodger.
    http://www.claremont...

    —Ricko

  • mike 2 | May 15, 2010 at 11:09 pm |

    [quote comment=”390329″]How bad were those red-hatted, powder-blue road Twins teams (and why any long time Twins observer hates the damn things)?
    From “This Day in Baseball” for May 16…

    1984 – The Twins sell 51,863 tickets to their 8-7 loss to the Blue Jays, but only 6,346 fans show up for the game. The skewed numbers are the result of a massive ticket buyout plan organized by Minneapolis businessman Harvey MacKay to keep the Twins in Minnesota; if the club does not sell 2.41 million tickets this season it can break its lease with the Metrodome. Taking advantage of reduced prices on the Family Day promotion, Mackay pays $218,718 for 44,166 tickets.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    I notice they came up about 800,000 short (but came close to doubling the attendance from the previous year)

    http://www.baseball-...

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 11:09 pm |

    I’d better single out this one. Not a lot of photos, color or otherwise, of that Indians uni with navy scipt (instead of usual red). Think it was a one-year wonder.
    http://www.claremont...

    —Ricko

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 11:11 pm |

    “Somebody get Catfish a kelly windbreaker, okay?”
    http://www.claremont...

  • LI Phil | May 15, 2010 at 11:15 pm |

    [quote comment=”390337″]

    No, wait, that was when I was Rick in another life.[/quote]

    i’ve often speculated why you don’t return…did you abscond with the church funds? run off with a senator’s wife? i like to think you killed a man…it’s the romantic in me…

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 11:15 pm |

    Umm…Nuxie and Purkey seem to have had a similar problem locating red nylon…
    http://www.claremont...
    http://www.claremont...

    —Ricko

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 11:19 pm |

    [quote comment=”390344″][quote comment=”390329″]How bad were those red-hatted, powder-blue road Twins teams (and why any long time Twins observer hates the damn things)?
    From “This Day in Baseball” for May 16…

    1984 – The Twins sell 51,863 tickets to their 8-7 loss to the Blue Jays, but only 6,346 fans show up for the game. The skewed numbers are the result of a massive ticket buyout plan organized by Minneapolis businessman Harvey MacKay to keep the Twins in Minnesota; if the club does not sell 2.41 million tickets this season it can break its lease with the Metrodome. Taking advantage of reduced prices on the Family Day promotion, Mackay pays $218,718 for 44,166 tickets.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    I notice they came up about 800,000 short (but came close to doubling the attendance from the previous year)

    http://www.baseball-...

    A signifcant contributor to that increase in ’84 was corporate buyouts such as the one mentioned.

    And they brought up some kid named Puckett, too.

    —Ricko

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 11:21 pm |

    [quote comment=”390347″][quote comment=”390337″]

    No, wait, that was when I was Rick in another life.[/quote]

    i’ve often speculated why you don’t return…did you abscond with the church funds? run off with a senator’s wife? i like to think you killed a man…it’s the romantic in me…[/quote]

    There are, like, nine lines from that movie the American Film Institute’s Top 100 Movie Lines of All-Time.

    —Ricko

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 11:25 pm |

    The Pilots’ generic spring training unis, 1969…
    http://www.claremont...

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 11:26 pm |

    The Indians’ ’58 grays…
    http://www.claremont...

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 11:27 pm |

    Appropriate for tonight…
    http://www.claremont...

  • Ricko | May 15, 2010 at 11:39 pm |

    The “non-script” Orioles of the early ’60s…
    http://www.claremont...

  • JimV19 | May 16, 2010 at 12:22 am |

    [quote comment=”390341″]Don’t see a lot of players built like this anymore…
    http://www.claremont...

    At least one guy like that played today:
    http://farm4.static....

  • rpm | May 16, 2010 at 12:59 am |

    draft? there was a draft? oh, wait, right. was i part of that?

    okay team trax, you can have the rick, but i left you all sorts a peeps, like fearless leader, james, and first time poster. speaking of FTP, anybody notice today’s longtime/first time used “lurking” just like jeff did last week? but i digress. i’ll trade you my starting center fielder for a sack of wet mice, he totally does not have the RHAM spirit. bonus baby looking for the highest bidder, pffft. and i am going to bring all dressed, cruellers, and beer n’ clam just to make him jealous. oglvie, er, greengoblin, you’re in centre, grab the leather.

    what the hell is a muay thais?! *gulp* (as he dreams his cheap beer and rock gut was a kahiki mai tai.)

  • The Hemogoblin | May 16, 2010 at 2:10 am |

    I guess my experience in little league in center will save us. I hope.

    I want to be the stirrup-clad version of Franklin Gutierrez.

  • rpm | May 16, 2010 at 2:27 am |

    [quote comment=”390357″]I guess my experience in little league in center will save us. I hope.

    I want to be the stirrup-clad version of Franklin Gutierrez.[/quote]

    you will be the lou gehrig of our centre field wally pipp situation. i am out for blood now on team trax and that diry sanches canadian centre fielder, “wheels” alexander.

  • Eddie | May 16, 2010 at 12:03 pm |

    I dunno if this has been mentioned (I dont wanna read thru all the comments) but majestic or whoever just uses the measurements that the players normally wear and makes them based on that.

  • Eric Westhaver | May 16, 2010 at 5:18 pm |

    I don’t mean to clog up this section with yet another comment, but I gotta tell you that a metric shit-ton of those CHL jerseys and logos are out of date.

  • James Craven | May 16, 2010 at 9:56 pm |

    We have an official complaint about El Noche de Viernes Los Marlins jerseys from another source, especially in the grammatical department.

  • iLO | May 17, 2010 at 8:03 am |

    As long as one player gets it right, I’m happy. Thank you, Mr. Moyer.

  • ryan4fregosi | May 19, 2010 at 12:03 pm |

    For the record, the Phillies wore zip-up roadies in ’73. It takes 127 posts on this thread for somebody to point this out? Strewth…

    http://cgi.ebay.com/...