Who's The Hunter...Who's The Game?

warrior splash

By Phil Hecken

At now, at long last, the “Redesign the Washington Football Club” contest has ended — and in the end, it wasn’t even close. After cruising to a victory in the “Top 10,” Brittain Peck easily won the finals with a whopping 27% of the votes cast. In all, there were more than 3,000 votes were tabulated, and Brittain cruised with 835 of them. Congratulations Brittain. If you want a quick refresher of Brittain’s winning submission, look here and scroll down to the first entry.

I followed up with Brittain and he’s been busy still with his uniform creation. He also wanted to say a few words to all you readers.

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Uni Watch: Congratulations Brittain. Your design was chosen by a huge number of readers. Thanks for participating.

Brittain Peck: I’d like to thank you and everyone at Uni Watch for running the Redskins redesign contest. I not only think it is a great idea and helps draw attention to an important cause of social relevance, but I am also honored to be able to participate and to have been selected as the winner.

UW: Many readers may recognize your name. Have you been reading the blog long?

BP: I have read the blog for years but have never participated in any of the contests or comment threads until now. Participating in this contest has also given me to opportunity to interact with the Uni Watch community in a much more in depth way.

UW: Well, your “Whiteskins” article (plus the Rename the Washington/Cleveland contests) have certainly generated a lot of interaction.

BP: I am genuinely impressed with the degree of meaningful insight and commentary that the contributors convey in their comments as well as the level of respect for each other that they display. People are able to express their honest opinions without devolving into name calling and offensive nonsense.

UW: Most of the time. But you certainly hit a chord with your article. Even though a lot of people have very strong opinions on the subject matter of Native American names and imagery, I’d say it has been a pretty respectful (if spirited) interchange of ideas.

BP: Perhaps this is result of you and Paul doing a great job of policing and editing the comments sections, and if so, you are doing a wondering job of creating an environment where constructive and meaning ideas serve to compliment what is already superb content.

UW: Thanks — but we don’t ever edit the comments sections. Readers have their say and we let them. No one is ever right when “opinion” is involved. Anyway, lets talk about this contest.

BP: Out of excitement over advancing to the finals of the contest and because I enjoy seeing ideas through as far as I am able to, I have developed some additional images of my Warriors concept based upon the uniform details which Nike presented for each of the NFL teams new 2012 uniforms.

UW: Yes, I’m going to post them below. We’ll start with the full concept:

BrittainPeck_Warriors_Home

BP: This is the concept with the “Nike” template.

UW: And now the details (click on each image to enlarge):

BrittainPeck_Warriors_Shoulder BrittainPeck_Warriors_Chest BrittainPeck_Warriors_PantsStripe

BP: First image show the shoulder stripe detail with three stars reminiscent of the flag of Washington D.C. and military rank insignia. Middle image has the chest detail with alternate \\* logo embroidered as “badge of honor” on upper left chest. Final image is the pant stripe detail.

UW: Nice! A couple of questions seem to have come up already. Why not keep red/burgundy as the primary color of the home uniform?

BP: I view the use of the color red by teams such as the Redskins and Chiefs as a symbolic representation of (at best) American Indian culture and (at worst) an exaggerated depiction of a generalized American Indian skin complexion. Why else do the Redskins, Chiefs, and other teams that use offensive American Indian names and imagery so frequently use red? As a result, I see this use of the color red as an offensive symbol which, like the name “Redskins”, must be addressed and, as in my design, limited in it’s use. I had considered making the home jersey red, but looked for another option because of this reason.

UW: What’s the deal with BFBS?

BP: The palette of Washington Warriors in my proposal does not include black, but instead consists of a drab tan, deep red, charcoal gray, and yellow in rare usage in the alternate uniform. The use of gray is not merely gratuitous but is done as part of the team color palette. I intentionally chose charcoal gray over black to 1) avoid falling into the trendiness of relying on black 2) to be the only team in the league to use charcoal gray in their uniforms (not silver) and 3) because of the association between charcoal gray and military equipment.

UW: Obviously, you were the winner by a large margin. Any more thoughts? How about those who had some critiques?

BP: I have also noticed that a few readers have some very constructive and valid criticisms of my design. I am interested in replying to these comments but do not want to do so in any way that may seem overly defensive or reactionary.

UW: Well, perhaps you’ll get some more comments today.

BP: I value the feedback that has already been given and would love to encourage more to be given by volunteering more in depth explanations of my thought process so that people are able to critique it in similar fashion.

UW: Sounds good. I’ll ask the readers for their feedback. Congratulations again, and thanks for participating!

BP: Thanks again for all of your work and for your time in reading and responding.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

And there you have it, dear readers. I’m sure a lot of you (myself included) are grateful we’re ending (at least for now) the examination of Native American imagery on professional (and college) sports uniforms. But let’s hear it for Brittain (and all the participants) for a job well done. And please, if you guys have any criticisms, positive or negative, of Brittain’s designs, he’d love to have the feedback.

I want to thank each and every reader and commenter for keeping these discussions professional and for keeping your comments (no matter what your feelings on the subject matter) passionate and spirited, but respectful just the same. To borrow a phrase from Paul, “you’re all aces”!

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146087662One good thing about interplague…Monarchs vs. Grays

Last evening, in a game I unfortunately did not see, the Kansas City Royals, playing as the Kansas City Monarchs, hooked up in an old-fashioned, interleague Negro League throwback game against the Pittsburgh Pirates, who were playing as the Homestead Grays. Both teams have done Negro League throwback games before, and this one looked great.

The Homestead Grays have had numerous uniforms throughout their history (you can see many images here, but the design worn last night is not only my most favorite of the Grays unis, but one of my all time favorite baseball uniforms of ALL TIME. I really wish some team would break out that uniform today — maybe the Nats? In fact, R. Scott Rogers (arr scott) even concepted that uniform on UW a while back. How effin great would that look?

The KC Monarchs also had a long and storied uniform history (in fact the Negro League Baseball Museum is located in Kansas City) as well. You can check out some of their unis here. What they wore last night is another uni I really like, although I’m not sure what was up with the blue shoes. I’m pretty sure those weren’t period authentic. But the rest of the uniform, from the red pocket flaps right down to the belt tunnels, are just gorgeous. That’s another uniform I think would look great on an MLB team today.

From the pictures I saw, it looked like everybody wore proper pant blousing and socks. Only complaint, and it’s ever so minor, is the modern helmets. But, since teams in the negro leagues didn’t wear helmets, it’s hard to fault the clubs for not having a *special* helmet created just for the game.

I didn’t see any makers marks on the uniforms, so I can only assume these weren’t Majestic — but no matter who manufactured them — top notch job.

If every interleague game looked like this — I think I could handle a lot more of them.

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colorize thisColorize This!

Occasionally, I will be featuring wonderful, high-quality black and white photographs that are just begging to be colorized.

Bit of a smaller set today, mostly featuring John Turney, who has been sending me a bunch lately. I’ll run a few of his and then we’ll have one more artist.

But here’s John, who centers on “kids playing football” this week (click on each to enlarge):

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Purple Jersey Kids - John Turney Orange Jersey Kids - John Turney

Just as as to colors . . . but rarely see purple in old days so I chose that. Colorized then filtered with Poloroid filter. Also an orange version.

. . .

Orange Kid Jersey - John Turney Tan Jersey Kid - John Turney

blue kid football - John Turney

On the left, one of the Life collection photos. On the right, second color scheme. Just used a replace color tool to make changes. Both were done in Photoshop and then enhanced with Alien Skin Exposure to make the colors pop. Bottom, just for fun, blue.

Thanks John!

~~~

And we conclude today with Pete Woychick, who has an old baseball shot:

ACMA 2011.7006.33

ACMA 2011.7006.33 - Pete Woychick

Hi Phil—
I found this photo on the Smithsonian website. ( Original here: “Anacostia Aztecs baseball players (Berry, Johnson, Scott) sitting in dugout.” circa 1940-1949.)

I found mentions of Alexandria, VA and Anacostia AC (“athletic club,” I suppose); that’s a W on the caps (Washington, D.C.?). In the absence of further info, I decided a color scheme of burnt orange and black, on cream-colored flannels, seemed somewhat Aztec-y. I apologize if the team nickname and warm-up patch inadvertently re-open the Chief Wahoo debate.

Cheers!
—Pete

Thanks Pete!

~~~

That’s it for “Colorize This!” today. Back with more next time.

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Benchies HeaderBenchies

by Rick Pearson

~~~

Wow, what an amazing couple of days…

6-10-12 s-nohan ALT 3

Click to enlarge

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all sport uni tweaksUni Tweaks Concepts

We have another new set of tweaks, er…concepts today. After discussion with a number of readers, it’s probably more apropos to call most of the reader submissions “concepts” rather than tweaks. So that’s that.

So if you’ve concept for any sport, or just a tweak or wholesale revision, send them my way.

Please do try to keep your descriptions to ~50 words (give or take) per image — if you have three uniform concepts in one image, then obviously, you can go a little over, but no novels, OK? OK!. You guys have usually been good with keeping the descriptions pretty short, and I thank you for that.

Like the colorizations, I’m going to run these as inline pics — click on each one to enlarge.

Today there are a couple more gents who don’t think the Nets got it quite right.

And so, lets begin:

~~~

We start off today with Wes Kull, who has a somewhat lengthy description (which he had sent to Paul, who forwarded it to me):

brooklyn_nets-revised - Wes Kull

This is Wes, the guy behind Gridiron League. I really enjoyed reading your coverage of the new (albeit underwhelming) Nike uniforms, and on the new Brooklyn Nets logo. I agree with all of your points on the new arena and marketing campaign, and wanted to share with you a quick post I did about the new logo with an ever-so-slightly revised mark. Instead of starting from scratch, I wanted to show how close Jay Z and co. came to hitting the mark, and with just a little more work, might have really made this a breakthrough sports franchise identity and campaign. I even made the ‘B’ more bold, as per your suggestion. Would love to know your thoughts!
–Wes Kull

Link here.

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And we close with Justin Myslinsky, who has a whole Nets set:

NETS - Justin Myslinsky

Here is my concept of the BROOKLYN NETS. Hope you enjoy, also thanks for the Cleveland Re-Design, making the finals was very cool, i look forward to more contests in the future.
–Justin Myslinsky

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That’s it for today. Back with more next time.

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foggy olympicsLondon Calling…Olympics Uni Reporters…

As many of you are no doubt aware, the London Summer Games are about a month and a half away.

As many of you also know, Paul takes his UW hiatus towards the end of July (give or take, depending upon my availability to come off the bench to pinch hit for his weekdays). As fate would have it this year, both the Olympics and Paul’s hiatus will take place simultaneously.

So — I’m calling upon the Uni Watch faithful who have an interest in the sports of the XXXth Olympiad (scheduled to take place between the 27th of July and the 12th of August) and would like to serve as “uni correspondents” — please drop me a line. Specifically, I’m looking for those of you who’d like to take a look at the uniforms for a specific event — whether it be a team sport or an individual one. I’d love to do both breakdowns of what the current teams (if a team sport) will be wearing for the games AND what teams have worn in past Olympics. This can be for an entire sport (for example, basketball) or a historical look-back at uniforms worn by one nation throughout the 100+ years of the games.

I’ve already got a correspondent for men’s football (soccer) — one Mr. George Chilvers, who will be attending several matches (sorry Mr. Vilk — I have to give the hometown lad preference) and one Mr. Morris Levin, who’ll be looking back at baseball (no longer a sanctioned sport). But that leaves about fifty-cajillion other disciplines to be covered, including such favorites as basketball, synchronized swimming and sprint canoeing.

If you’re interested in covering a sport in an article to be featured during the games — or have an idea for an olympic angle — let me know. OK? OK!

Yesterday I received six or seven interested reader inquiries, but I could still use a few more correspondents — it’s going to be a really nice week or so of Olympic uniform coverage here on Uni Watch — lets make it the best coverage on the Interwebs!

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And Finally…

Pretty big day in sports yesterday (Belmont, Ladies French Open finals, the Heat edged the Celtics to move on to the NBA finals, and the Devils staved off elimination on the ice — plus all the Interplague)…you’ve got the Men’s Finals this morning in the French. I know many, if not most, of you are not tennis fans — but it’s going to be a huge match — Rafael Nadal, king of the red clay (and hoping to win a record SEVEN French Opens) plays Novak Djokovic, who hasn’t lost a grand slam match in like 50 years (actually, he hasn’t lost since last year’s French Open, so if he wins today, he’ll not only have the “career grand slam” but he’ll pull off the extremely rare feat of holding all four grand slam titles at once). And yesterday, the lovely Maria Sharapova also acheived the “career grand slam.” So, if you find yourself with nothing to do at 9:00 am (Eastern time), turn on NBC and watch. You just might like it.

Everyone have a great Sunday — make sure you give Brittain some feedback on his design — and I’ll catch you next weekend. If you want to be an Olympic correspondent, don’t forget to give me a shout. Peace.

~~~

“Benchies is easily one of the ten best comic strips being produced in the world right now. Shame that like most of the other nine, you won’t find it in your local newspaper.”
– R. Scott Rogers

 

124 comments to Who’s The Hunter…Who’s The Game?

  • Sam D. | June 10, 2012 at 7:24 am |

    I have a question: Since the Heat and Thunder will be meeting in the NBA Finals, is this the first time two teams are meeting in a championship series with neither of them having an “s” at the end of their names?

    • Arr Scott | June 10, 2012 at 8:15 am |

      Excluding soccer & WNBA, I think it just might be the first Platonic Ideal Championship. Good catch.

    • The Jeff | June 10, 2012 at 8:24 am |

      Well, there have been a few Arena League championships featuring the Tampa Bay Storm and Detroit Drive back in the early 90′s, but that’s single game, not series.

      • Ben | June 10, 2012 at 4:08 pm |

        Also, a few WLAF/NFL Europe championships.

    • Graf Zeppelin | June 10, 2012 at 8:30 am |

      Not counting my 1989 college rotisserie league football championship between the Sacramento Onion Bagel and the Green Bay Milk Dud.

      • Jet | June 10, 2012 at 9:46 am |

        Don’t tell me – there were a lot of holes in that Onion Bagel roster…

        -Jet

        • Phil Hecken | June 10, 2012 at 12:07 pm |

          just one

    • Jim Vilk | June 10, 2012 at 12:24 pm |

      Last year the Baltimore Blast and the Milwaukee Wave played in the MISL Championship series.

      In the original MISL (1978-92), at least one team in every championship had a name that ended in an S. In the NPSL/2nd MISL, most of the names had no ending S.
      http://en.wikipedia....
      http://en.wikipedia....

      In the NISL/3rd MISL, every series has been devoid of a name ending in an S.
      http://en.wikipedia....

      • Phil Hecken | June 10, 2012 at 12:30 pm |

        i think sam was referring to real sports

        • Jim Vilk | June 10, 2012 at 12:57 pm |

          Yuk yuk yuk yuk yuk…

          By the way, nice Mrs. McEnroe reference today.

        • stlmarty | June 10, 2012 at 8:00 pm |

          Shootin at the walls of heartache
          http://www.nomas-nyc...

  • BaltimoreTom | June 10, 2012 at 7:52 am |

    If Djokovic wins today, he’ll have a Grand Slam. Unlike golf, tennis majors are year-round, and Djokovic will be the current title holder of all of them.

    There’s no clearly defined beginning or end of the tennis calendar, so why impose this arbitrary one? It seems to be motivated by “it was better in the old days” as much as anything else.

  • Jeff Hunter | June 10, 2012 at 8:01 am |

    More politically correct, feel good, look at me I’m better than you, social nonsense. Let’s get back to uni stuff.

    • stlmarty | June 10, 2012 at 11:21 am |

      I believe the kettle is black.

  • Alec | June 10, 2012 at 8:44 am |

    Don’t know about the Redskins, but obviously the Chiefs color scheme was just a carry over from their Dallas Texans days.

  • Mike Engle | June 10, 2012 at 8:49 am |

    Best.
    Benchies.
    Ever.
    Hilarious!

    • teenchy | June 10, 2012 at 12:08 pm |

      Amen to that.

      I have really warmed to “Benchies” since following UW. Pity it doesn’t get a wider audience (and maybe some $ for Ricko?) especially given the plethora of lod legacy comic strips that do.

      • teenchy | June 10, 2012 at 12:09 pm |

        *old legacy strips, but you get the idea.

    • Jim Vilk | June 10, 2012 at 12:48 pm |

      I liked yesterday’s slightly better; but yeah, this one’s a classic.

  • Connie | June 10, 2012 at 9:37 am |

    Lots to love today. Monarchs and Grays top my list, but good stuff all over.

    Just a word on French Open. Always my favorite Grand Slam site, on both style points and the talents favored by the clay surface. Which also looks great on TV. Go, Rafa!

    PS to Phil: DC is excellent, and I love Nats Park.

    • Jim Vilk | June 10, 2012 at 12:51 pm |

      Made it to Nats Park four years ago, and I’d love to go back. But I gotta hit Camden Yards at some point first.

      Conn, you should also check out Prince Georges Stadium in Bowie, too. Not as old-timey as the other places mentioned, but a nice place to watch a game nonetheless.

      • JAson | June 10, 2012 at 4:31 pm |

        Funny you said that, I just made the trip from Ohio to Nats Park on Thursday and then Camden Yards on Friday. Both are fantastic parks! To make this uni-related and not just outright gloating, I’m pretty sure the Phillies phanbase has the highest percentage of jersey & jersey t-shirts of any group of MLB supporters. They were EVERYWHERE!

  • Morte | June 10, 2012 at 9:48 am |

    I’m really sick and tired of white people telling me what is and isn’t offensive to my culture. That IS offensive, not some caricature.

    • Steve D | June 10, 2012 at 10:17 am |

      Only to replace the caricature with a concept that likens playing football to fighting wars, when we have great men in harm’s way. Maybe we can make a football video game where they actually shoot and kill the other team.

      • Brittain | June 10, 2012 at 1:13 pm |

        Steve D:
        As somewhat of a pacifist, I actually share the concern that you have expressed over yet another reference to war and violence in sports mascots and names. I have always thought that sports provided a constructive, alternative outlet for national pride. I’m not even a big fan of mixed martial arts because I think it tends to blur the line between sport and violence a bit too much for my tastes.

        The references to warfare and violence in my Washington Warriors proposal are but one more in a long, familiar tradition in sports mascots and names. The Houston Colt 45′s, the Greensboro Grasshoppers (Grasshopper refers to a small cannon used by American forces in the Revolutionary War at battles such as the Battle of Guilford Courthouse, fought outside of Greensboro, and was nicknamed the “grasshopper” for how it would jump when fired) and even in DC there have been the Washington Bullets. Pirates and Raiders also kill and steal and Trojans and Spartans were also of warfare fame. There have also been a fair number of teams named the Warriors, often making a connection to some sort of ethnic group in the process.

        I am giving all of these examples not to make the “everyone is doing it” excuse, but rather to discuss the specific nature in which my Washington Warrior references warfare. My intention has been to reference the modern day warriors of our nation’s armed services in much the same way as we do in Memorial and Veterans Day services, Military Appreciation Day events, and pre-game military fly-overs. Within such a climate, my Washington Warriors concept is intended as a gesture of honoring those who serve.

        • Skycat | June 10, 2012 at 5:55 pm |

          I was one of those who really liked your designs, particularly the color scheme, but was critical of the emphasis on the military aspects. The warrior motif may be verging on obsolescence, though, with the preponderance of the use of drones. That might be another angle to explore.

        • Brittain | June 11, 2012 at 12:25 am |

          HAHA, I like the way you think Skycat! DC Drones has a nice ring to it. It also opens up the opportunity of an exceptionally uninspiring pre-game fly over.

          I think it was your original comment raising question about the pro-military nature of my concept that I had been meaning to address and thank you for. As hard as it may be to believe coming from someone who just proposed a very military-based concept like my Warriors concept, I am very much opposed to war. I love honoring those who serve and don’t think we do enough to thank them (or even provide them with basic healthcare and assistance) for their service. If I am not mixing up authors, I believe it was your original statement that I agree with wholeheartedly: Supoort the troops. Bring them home.

    • Brittain | June 10, 2012 at 11:35 am |

      Morte:
      My interest in identifying and working to change what I and others consider to be offensive sports mascots is just as much rooted in my own (I am a white male) disgust with the use of these names and symbols as it is based on the opinions of numerous friends and acquaintances of numerous races and ethnicities. I understand that many people do not find the use of such names and symbols to be offensive and respect that everyone has their own opinion. It is my opinion though that if a great number of people find something to be offensive and have for some time, then it is at least discussing how we may need to find alternatives. I am not sure what you identify as your culture, but I am willing to bet that, offensive or not, the Washington Redskins or other sports teams are doing a poor job of representing it to the wider culture of the United States and an international audience. The Redskins make no attempt to present any specific insight or information concerning any of the numerous American Indian cultures and prefer to generalize all of American Indian culture into a single, inaccurate stereotype.

      • Tom | June 10, 2012 at 12:21 pm |

        I am always amused when a few peolle think that they should decide what is right or wrong for the rest of us to feel. I enjy the site but less so as it begins to turn into some left wing politically correct you should be appalled with this site. I just want to see uniform related news, It’s bad enough the NCAA is mired in this crap. I’m insulted by the miltary refernce to your uniforms.

        • Matt | June 10, 2012 at 2:58 pm |

          Stop being offended by other people’s opinions. It’s like someone being offended by what you just said. It’s just an opinion, it you don’t care for it, move on and read something you care about on this site or somewhere else.

      • Morte | June 13, 2012 at 9:28 am |

        If you’re referring to my people as “American Indians,” you’re doing more harm than the Washington Redskins are. BAre in mind, it was my people that labelled themselves as “red skinned,” not anyone else. Should Florida State have to change their mascot just because you don’t like it, even though FSU and the Seminole Nation are both happy with the cooperative movement? Of course not.

        If there were a team called the Fightin’ Caucasians, and you wanted to be offended by it, more power to you, but you have no right to interfere with any other race and their business just because you feel like you were elected to the PC Police.

        • Spitzfire | June 13, 2012 at 2:55 pm |

          “Fightin’ Caucasians” – isn’t that Notre Dame?

          Names and offensiveness or assumptions of offensiveness aside, I actually really liked Brittain’s concept. I’m a big personal fan of teams that tie their identity both to their host city without ignoring their own team’s history, and this concept did it the best. The only complaint I have would be to have the \\* logo on the helmet as well, but that’s literally it.

  • Jet | June 10, 2012 at 9:49 am |

    Indeed, another beautiful throwback game, but I think this might be the first one where I couldn’t identify one of the “actual” teams. I had always heard of the Homestead Grays (and dug those unis) but had no idea where they hailed from. So if you hadn’t told me it was the Pittsburgh Pirates in those unis, I wouldn’t be able to guess which team it was (I don’t follow baseball enough to recognize players faces).

    -Jet

    • Gusto44 | June 10, 2012 at 12:04 pm |

      The confusion about the Homestead Grays is natural, they were originally founded in Homestead, Pennsylvania. When the club moved to Pittsburgh, they decided to keep the name Homestead.
      There was another Negro League team called the Pittsburgh Crawfords, so that may have been a factor along in the decision over the years. During the last ten years of the existence of the Grays, they played in Washington at Griffith Stadium.

      • scott | June 10, 2012 at 4:45 pm |

        And Josh Gibson, one of the most famous Homestead Grays, is honored with a statue in Washington. So the confusion is legitimate.

  • Tom | June 10, 2012 at 10:16 am |

    If you are a fan of the Homestead Grays look, you might be interested in what the Kent State Golden Flashes wore last night in their super regional game against Oregon

    http://www.kentstate...

    • LarryB | June 10, 2012 at 12:31 pm |

      I watched most of that game last night. I am an hour away from Kent. Nice win by the Golden Flashes.

      And I was wondering about the old school unis.

  • dae | June 10, 2012 at 10:22 am |

    I must say, I do not find the usage of Amerindian names offensive, but as a tribute to them. However, Redskins, I would agree, may be the only one. It’s a shame that people can’t see this as a tribute. I’m still upset that Eastern Michigan changed its nickname from the Hurons (the only team named as such) even though the tribe was okay with the name. Now, EMU is named the Eagles which is so generic it’s sickening (there’s like, what, 25 teams named after the bird or using the bird in their logo?… generic!) I kinda wish that EMU would’ve gone with the Emus or something a little more original. I’d rather be a Huron than an eagle. The same with North Dakota which, if it wants to join NDSU, South Dakota, and S Dakota State, has to change its Fighting Sioux name to something else to join the Summit League. BLAH! I bet they’ll find something generic too… BLAH!

    • walter | June 10, 2012 at 11:11 pm |

      It never fails to amaze me how many ex-Indian squads change their name to Red Hawks. I don’t understand why athletic departments have such a tin ear when asked to come up with a post-Indian identity; especially when tribes have such a rich history of written symbols and imagery. Why isn’t there a team called the Firebirds, Thuderbirds or Thunderbolts?

  • hgmercury | June 10, 2012 at 11:18 am |

    Congratulations to Brittain Peck for winning the redesign the Redskins name and uniform contest, however, I disagree with his comments that the colors the Redskins (burgundy) and Chiefs (red) use is offensive to Native Americans. I agree that the Redskins name should be changed and that the new name should not have any logos involving Native Americans but the color red or burgundy also being offensive is taking it too far. Look at St. John’s University when they used to be the Redmen and then changed to the Red Storm. They still kept the colors red. I have not heard the majority of those opposed to the Redskins name also opposing their current colors because it is also offensive. If the Redskins ever change their name and logo, how would keeping their current color of burgundy be offensive?

    • Brittain | June 10, 2012 at 1:27 pm |

      hgmercury:
      Thanks for your feedback. In and of itself, I see nothing wrong with the color red and feel there is nothing inherently offensive about its use, even for a team named the Warriors. The primary reason that I decided not to use it in my Warriors proposal was because what seems to be a tradition of using red, often times accompanied by yellow, when a team’s name references American Indians. Understanding that the Washington Warriors would exist as the successor of the Redskins, I wanted to make a deliberate move to break with this tradition and therefore chose to use red as a secondary color in my uniform proposal.

      Honestly, I have not heard anyone else ever say that they find it offensive when teams whose mascots and names refer to American Indians use the color red. As a white man, I do not mean to imply that other people, American Indian or not, find such use of the color red, as in the KC Chiefs and Washington Redskins, to be offensive or not. I speak only for myself with this observation about the use of the color red by such teams.

      For whatever it is worth, I have used this observation as one of a few reasons that I have decided not to use red as the primary color of the home jerseys in my Washington Warrior proposal.

  • Caleb | June 10, 2012 at 11:30 am |

    I don’t know how many times the Royals have thrown back to the Monarchs, but being the most popular team in Negro League history are being home to the Negro League Hall of Fame, you would think the Royals would have tons of non blue batting helmets and shoes lying around to wear with these uniforms.

    • concealed78 | June 10, 2012 at 11:46 am |

      It’s a bunch, and that’s so far what this blog knows:

      http://throwback-uni...

  • teenchy | June 10, 2012 at 12:11 pm |

    …and yeah, I didn’t read R.S. Rogers’ quote of the day before posting that.

  • Trevor | June 10, 2012 at 12:22 pm |

    “Why else do the Redskins, Chiefs, and other teams that use offensive American Indian names and imagery so frequently use red?”

    Wow. Just an all-around ignorant statement. The Chiefs were red and gold in their days as the Dallas Texans. In fact, very little changed between the uniforms after the move, so the color choice had zero to do with skin color…unless, of course, the red was an offensive color choice to represent the stereotypical “red-neck” culture of the south. Oh man, Lamar Hunt was clearly so full of prejudice.

    • The Jeff | June 10, 2012 at 12:32 pm |

      If you think Chief Wahoo is bad now, imagine if Cleveland wore the colors of the Mets. Orange skin and royal blue hair? Now that would be offensive.

      • Phil Hecken | June 10, 2012 at 12:38 pm |

        wouldn’t that be the donald’s team, the?

    • Brittain | June 10, 2012 at 1:44 pm |

      Trevor, I appreciate you mentioning the source of the Chiefs colors and uniforms as the original Dallas Texans. I definitely plead ignorant on that history and appreciate the insight.

      I don’t mean to imply that any use of the color red, and in the Chief’s case yellow, are always and only done so in racist reference to skin complexion. That said, I do think there may be something more than merely coincidence happening giving the following:

      Washington Redskins: burgundy & yellow
      Kansas City Chiefs: red & yellow
      Chicago Blackhawks: red & black
      St. Johns Redmen (now “Red Storm”): red
      Oak Hill Academy Warriors (using old St. Johns “Redmen” mascot): red & yellow
      Cleveland Indians: blue & red
      Atlanta Braves: blue & red
      Stanford Indians (now “Cardinal”): red
      Florida State Seminoles: garnet & gold

      • DJ | June 10, 2012 at 2:16 pm |

        And yet, there are several examples of teams with American Indian-influenced names or logos that did not use red as a color. Two that come to mind are the Eastern Michigan Hurons (green and white) and the Philadelphia/San Francisco Warriors (blue and gold).

        To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a color is just a color.

      • NinerEd | June 10, 2012 at 7:00 pm |

        DJ’s right – I’d chalk this up to just a coincidence, especially since a few of the teams on that list were either wearing red before adopting the NA nicknames, or wore uniforms without red after doing so:

        - Stanford has worn Cardinal red since the school opened in 1891, but didn’t officially adopt the nickname “Indians” until 1930.

        - Florida State’s colors were originally purple and gold; after the school went all-female (!) in 1905, they changed to crimson and gold, then garnet (crimson + purple) and gold. The nickname “Seminoles” didn’t emerge until FSU went back to coed in 1947.

        - The Indians wore red as the Cleveland Naps in 1904 before going back to blue and white; they didn’t wear red as the Indians until 1928 (13 years after the nickname change).

        - The Braves were originally the Boston Red Stockings in 1871 and wore red as a primary color until 1910.

        Let’s not forget that the Buffalo Braves played the majority of their time in the NBA with black and orange, or black and Columbia blue, as their colors. Or that the Marquette Warriors wore blue and gold.

        Also…I’m more than a little surprised that, given the anti-gray (and anti-Pro Combat, or whatever cutesy nickname you give it these days) backlash on UW in recent weeks, that voters embraced this particular uni concept. Call it charcoal or whatever, it’s just dull. Really dull. It’s perilously close to being BFBS, in fact.

        Whatever happened to embracing unique colors (and I’m directing this to everyone who wants the Padres to go back to brown)? Guess that ship has sailed.

        • Brittain | June 11, 2012 at 12:10 am |

          I’m really showing myself to be the ignorant one here in terms of the specific histories of team names & colors and I genuinely appreciate the insight provided by NinerEd and Trevor’s earliest comment. Perhaps it is merely all coincidence. I surely never did any research on the connection between the team’s names and the color red but operated more on my own experiences of these teams, which obviously didn’t include as much historical insight as it probably should have.

          In regards to my decision to move away from red in my Warriors concept, I do hold onto the idea that there is enough of a connection between the Redskins offensive name and their primary uniform color, if no other reason than the name having “red” in it. I don’t intend to argue for the historical accuracy on my observation or the feeling that motivated my decision, but I did take the contest idea to heart in trying to propose a concept that departed as much as possible from the Redskins offensive name. Lumping their use of red/burgundy in with the name, I gave it the boot too.

          In many ways I agree with you about my Warriors concept being “dull”, although I think I view the dullness much more favorably than you might. One of my favorite uniforms worn in past few years in the NFL is the NY Jets / Titans throwback. I took these uniforms as a big inspiration in coming up with my Warriors proposal. There is something about these Titans uniforms that to me is so badass and intimidating in it’s understated darkness. In wanting to “militarize” this idea, I did so making it…duller. More drab. I didn’t want to use navy so I went with charcoal (dark) gray. I thought gold pants would be too flashy for fatigues so I went more in this or this direction (I dig the work, Larry Bodnovich).

          Understandably, not everyone’s cup of tea though.

  • LarryB | June 10, 2012 at 12:34 pm |

    Nice work John and Pete in the colorizing. I had submitted the football kids and hose before on here.

    I gave them Ohio State colors and used Alien Skin filter when I had the trial version.

    Here is my filtered look.

    http://img.photobuck...

    • John Turney | June 10, 2012 at 5:58 pm |

      Yours was excellent. I tend to go with more of a pink/peach color for skins tones, though. Kind of a personal preference. I also wanted to see a more unusual color combo, which is why I did mine. But I liked your original.

      • LarryB | June 10, 2012 at 9:02 pm |

        Thanks John. I have a real tough time with skin tones

        As I said I did mine in Ohio State colors since I am a huge Buckeye fan.

        Keep your work coming and thanks for the info on what you do.

        • John Turney | June 11, 2012 at 1:42 am |

          For a skin tone, try sampling a color picture of any new photo . . . could be Peyton Manning, or Johnny U. and see where it falls on the color chart. Once you realize where it falls in the range of colors, it’s easier to pick out . . . and then you can tweak it towards red or yellow, whichever way it needs to go.

  • Jim Vilk | June 10, 2012 at 12:54 pm |

    I know Phil didn’t like the blue shoes with the Monarchs unis last night
    http://cache.daylife...
    …and being that it was a throwback game I can agree with him.

    BUT…if the Rangers did that with their current red unis? That would be fantastic.

  • LarryB | June 10, 2012 at 12:58 pm |

    Today my brother showed me a can of this pop. I think it is available only in Ohio and Pa.

    Cherikee Red

    He asked what would Paul or Phil think about it.

    http://1.bp.blogspot...

    http://i605.photobuc...

    • Brittain | June 11, 2012 at 12:30 am |

      WOW! Are those collector’s items or are they currently being sold in stores? Never seen that spelling before either: “Cherikee”

      Thanks for find, LarryB. I think I’m going to pass this along to my buddies at Whiteskins.Org. They’ll have a field day with this.

  • Andy | June 10, 2012 at 1:11 pm |

    I get it, Redskins is offensive and needs to be changed. But now UW is promoting war imagery within football? Seems to be a 180 turn around from all the Nike Pro Combat hatred.

    • Phil Hecken | June 10, 2012 at 1:18 pm |

      UW isn’t *promoting* anything…brittain is a contest winner and this was his design

      the contest simply stipulated that no native american imagery be used and that the name be changed from “redskins” to something else

      that’s what brittain did, and obviously, the readers liked his design

      to say or imply that UW is promoting this simply isn’t true

      that being said, i think brittain did a nice job with this and certainly deserved to have his winning design featured

  • Jet | June 10, 2012 at 1:20 pm |

    Can we get a pool going here? How long before the Brooklyn Nets add a third color?

    -Jet

    • Shane | June 10, 2012 at 1:44 pm |

      How long, or what color? Obviously, it’ll be grey.

      • Brittain | June 10, 2012 at 1:49 pm |

        I could see Jay-Z trying to work some blue in there at some point. He obviously has a thing for blue given what he’s chosen to name his albums and firstborn.

  • chuck | June 10, 2012 at 2:24 pm |

    You have heard of “ditch the black campaigns”, how about a “bump that logo up a couple of inches” for the St. Louis Cardinals! It just does not look right to me, to have that iconic logo put in the middle of their jerseys.

    • Ricko | June 10, 2012 at 4:10 pm |

      Don’t disagree, but I always wonder if that isn’t a strike zone thing.

      At normal height, the bird to the left would make the “letters” appear terribly high.

    • Brittain | June 11, 2012 at 12:32 am |

      I’m with you Chuck, although I’d never considered Ricko’s strikezone idea. Definitely feels like belly decoration though.

  • HHH | June 10, 2012 at 3:10 pm |

    Dearest Brittain Peck,

    Congratulations on your win! I bet you really appreciate it, especially since you completely ignored the 100 word limit in your description and wrote MUCH more than 100 words (actually about 300). How often does someone who doesn’t follow/breaks a rule in a contest still end up as the winner? Bill Belichick would be proud of you! Like him, did you misinterpret “describe your concept in 100 words or less”? Such an ambiguous request! Therefore I can understand why you may have gotten confused!

    Also, there is something about the uniform design you’re showing today that I REALLY don’t appreciate. I am VERY angry that you decided to “borrow” a uniform element that both me and Eve Wilderman included in our respective designs: using the Washington DC flag *complete with stars* as shoulder/sleeve stripes.

    On your design shown today, the stars next to the shoulder stripes that therefore *more obviously* make the shoulder stripes a direct reference to the DC flag…

    http://farm8.staticf...

    …were NOT a part of your original design! Kind of an odd coincidence that they suddenly appear AFTER both my design and Eve Wilderman’s designs, which clearly show DC-flag-inspired sleeve stripes *including stars*, were shown on Uni Watch.

    Here is my design:
    http://farm8.staticf...

    Here is Eve Wilderman’s:
    http://farm8.staticf...

    Both mine and Eve Wilderman’s designs were shown on this site waaaaay before you had any “excitement over advancing to the finals” and created this new design. Eve and I would appreciate some credit for our ideas if we indeed inspired you. If we DID inspire you, you could have at least mentioned that me and Eve’s use of the DC flag as sleeve stripes *including stars* inspired adding the stars next to the shoulder stripes in your new design. There were NO STARS next to the shoulder stripes when your Warriors uniform designs were first shown on this site:

    http://farm8.staticf...

    http://farm8.staticf...

    This is NOT a sour grapes rant because I didn’t even make the top 10. I’m just pissed off that someone who completely ignored an explicit rule in the competition ends up being the winner, and THEN has the balls to “improve” his design by adding an extra detail that wasn’t there until after he undoubtedly had seen this detail in both mine and Eve Wilderman’s designs.

    I think you owe me, Eve Wilderman, and all Uni Watch readers an explanation.

    • Phil Hecken | June 10, 2012 at 3:28 pm |

      my turn

      HHH…you’re entitled to your opinion and i won’t censor your remarks but your remarks after each losing round of your designs are getting tiresome

      they ARE sour grapes

      i actually SPECIFICALLY changed two parts of this contest because of your own specific gripes — allowing ALL the designs to be voted on (since you cried after being left out of the cleveland contest) AND i worked around your concerns that links be shown in the descriptions (during the cleveland contest i used screen grabs so there was no link back)

      both of these were done to accommodate you because you whined about them

      plenty of people went above 100 words (i edited some of them because they didn’t specifically describe the uniform) and didn’t cut them off specifically at 100 on the nose, which i could have done

      no one saw brittain’s updated design prior to today and they weren’t voting on it, so the design that won wasn’t “stolen” from you or eve

      seriously, HHH (and if i REALLY want to be a hard ass, next time i’ll demand that ONLY real names are used, not pseudonymous screen names), this is JUST a contest for fun, and you’re turning it into a personal gripefest

      you lost, fair and square…you’ve complained about each contest (even thought brittain wasn’t even entered into the cleveland one) and i felt sorry for you so i made it so that at least the readers, and not a crack panel, would have a chance to vote on your design in this contest, AND included peoples’ full descriptions including links, because you thought links might help your chances

      you’re welcome to your thoughts and opinions, but frankly, this is getting tiresome

      • Ben | June 10, 2012 at 4:18 pm |

        owned.

      • Jeff P | June 10, 2012 at 6:09 pm |

        Phil, as a neutral party, plagiarism is a serious thing in a competition, even if it is just for fun. The people voting on the entry not seeing it does not make it okay, since the artist is still taking an idea from other entrants. Whether that affected the outcome or not, that’s still a serious issue, and HHH documented it pretty well- it’s hard to dispute that the element was copied.

        Yes, it rings of sour grapes, but the question of plagiarism shouldn’t be dismissed that lightly. If brittain is claiming that element as his own, it’s still plagiarism, regardless of whether it was part of the contest or not. If he wanted to add that to an improved showcase design, he should have added a citation to the description.

        Here’s how that looks: “To celebrate a potential win, I touched up my design to include a neat idea found in HHH and Eve Wilderman’s designs.”

        It’s not much to ask, and to do otherwise is ethically questionable, at best.

        • Phil Hecken | June 10, 2012 at 6:24 pm |

          fair points jeff, and i’m not going to speak for brittain…but the design that won has nothing to do with the “new” version seen for the first time here today

          and im pretty sure no one has EVER thought to use a flag element to use in a design before

          whatever touchups brittain added had NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on the voting or the contest, since none of the ‘improvements’ were seen by anyone voting in the contest — the design that won was the design he submitted well over a month ago

          if HHH wants to complain about the “100 word limit” being exceeded, and all things being equal, he might have a legitimate gripe

          but his complaining about what appears today IS sour grapes

          if you feel he should throw some love to HHH & eve’s way for the design you see today, that’s an absolutely fair point

          but the design that won the contest was (at least to my mind) completely original and that which was seen on may 20th and may 27th and again on june 2 was what was voted on — his submission was made the same as the other 33, presented in the same way, and voted on fairly

          all that you see today is some improvements (if you want to say those improvements were due to seeing others’ submissions, that’s fair) … but it’s not like he got a peek at others’ designs and then changed his

    • concealed78 | June 10, 2012 at 7:02 pm |

      Beauty pageants are stupid.

      • Jim Vilk | June 10, 2012 at 7:35 pm |

        I was waiting for your usual “Yeah, definitely not bitter” and you let me down. :(

        • Jim Vilk | June 10, 2012 at 8:51 pm |

          But seriously, you do come across as bitter each time. I don’t say this often, but…what Phil said.

        • Jim Vilk | June 10, 2012 at 8:54 pm |

          Not you, concealed – but HHH.

        • concealed78 | June 10, 2012 at 11:57 pm |

          Yeah, definitely not bitter.

          Better, Jim? =P

          HHH clearly has an axe to grind. But I was young once, and the weight of the world crushed my spirit as well. Hell I used to be a somewhat-modernist back in the day; thought various MLB uni changes were for the good (like the Brewers Motre Bame set; 1992 Expos; 1994 Astros) but I lacked the perspective & appreciation for history.

          But I think things like Interleague Play & Hooters never lived up to the hype: it was an awkward match-up that shouldn’t have happened in the regular season that took away more than it gave; the food & shitty service never lived up to the hype of Hooters; certainly not for the long wait times, loud ambiance & the high prices. In other words, lesson learned.

          My comment on beauty pageants was something HHH ranted endlessly on Friday & those things have been antiquated many decades ago. Really? Somebody gives a shit about beauty pageants in this day & age? That went out with lunch martinis & TV dinners.

    • Bernard | June 10, 2012 at 9:33 pm |

      Haha, you didn’t make the top 10? You suck! Perhaps you wouldn’t be so hungry-hungry if you had some cheese to go with your whine!

    • stlmarty | June 10, 2012 at 10:19 pm |

      Maybe if you’re nice, Brittain will split the $1,000,000.00 with you.

      • Brittain | June 10, 2012 at 10:24 pm |

        HAHAHA. I’m actually afraid to share my million dollar award with everyone out of fear of being labeled a communist. Greed is safer is most respectable.

    • walter | June 10, 2012 at 11:14 pm |

      I read this guy’s comments and I see myself. I don’t think I will enter one of these contests; I’m much too poor a sport.

      • Brittain | June 10, 2012 at 11:37 pm |

        Sorry for the confusion there Walter.
        I was not laughing at HHH’s comments expressing concern over whether or not I had stolen his and Eve’s ideas. I actually just posted a response to HHH which, if I am understanding how these comments are ordered, should appear just before this comment.
        I posted the “HAHAHA…” comment in response to stlmarty’s joke about me sharing my $1,000,000 prize with everyone.
        I definitely take seriously any one feeling that they have been shafted or had their ideas stolen and didn’t intend for my response to stlmarty’s joke to be taken in the context of HHH’s concerns.

    • Brittain | June 10, 2012 at 11:31 pm |

      Seriously though, I do appreciate you (HHH) bringing this to my and everyone else’s attention. Having been on the not-so-fun receiving end of some creative “borrowing” myself, I know how wrong it is and completely respect your feelings in this situation. Honestly, I was unaware of these similarities between your and Eve’s designs and the additional close-up images that I created as a follow up to the first round of voting until you brought it up here in the comments.

      One major influence on my Warriors concept and design was the Army uniforms from this past years Army / Navy game. I was impressed with Nike’s innovative thinking to use the socks and shoes to reference the look of combat boots. In developing my Warriors concept I wanted to reference what I thought was a great idea. I was actually a little nervous in mentioning this influence in my submitted concept description because I feared that people would take me to task and look down upon my concept for using so similar of an idea to what Nike had so recently done. Given the possible drawbacks, I went ahead and decided to include this reference in the description that I submitted because I did not want to be seen as taking full credit for an idea for which I knew I had been influenced by someone else’s work.

      Similarly, had I knowingly borrowed the stars & shoulder stripes from either you or Eve’s designs, I would have certainly felt a similar obligation to give credit to the originator of the idea by referencing you and your sumissions. Given the nature of the contest and the fact that your and Eve’s work were also submissions, had I picked up on the similarities in our designs, I probably would have just decided to leave out the one detail image of the stars on the shoulder for fear of the similarities between my design and other competing designs. Not picking up on these similarities, I did not foresee any foul in sharing the close-up images that I created.

      Now that I look back at your and Eve’s submissions, I fully understand the reasons behind you being upset. I do remember seeing your and Eve’s designs when they were first posted. In regards to your Warthogs design, I actually did not even notice the stars on the shoulders. Perhaps I looked at it quickly or was more interested in what I thought was a really clever take on the Philadelphia Eagles / Minnesota Vikings / Cincinatti Bengals idea of using the helmet for a purpose other than just slapping the logo on he side and instead using warthog teeth / tusk to reference a warthog’s head. Either way, I certainly missed that you had included the stars on the sleeves above the stripes. I also remember seeing and liking Eve’s design and actually thought it to be rather great. As may already be obvious by my use of the DC flag in my Warriors concept, I am a sucker for flag-inspired uniforms and I thought her black and red design did a great job of using the flag throughout the design.

      Nearing the end of the first round of voting, when I was beginning to think about using the 2012 Nike NFL uniform images to create some close-up images of my Warrior concept, (I mean this as nicely as possible) I had somewhat forgotten about you and Eve’s designs, and that is even with me having really liked Eve’s use of the flag. You are correct, I did not include the stars on the shoulders in my originally submitted design. I also did not include the \\* logo (all credit is due to Arr Scott on coming up with the brilliant “emoticon” simplification of that logo, thanks!) as an embroidered badge on the chest or show a detail of the pants stripe or alternate uniform’s helmet, which also made use of the \\* logo instead of the one I intended for the primary Warriors helmet. Knowing that I had left out a fair amount of details that I had either thought about including originally or intended to come back to at some point in time, when I began work on the close-up images, I really was not thinking much about yours, Eve’s, or anyone else’s designs. Instead, I was thinking only about how I could add details to my design that would help contribute the concept that I had originally set in motion. I thought about military arm badges and star rankings and saw the opportunity to incorporate the DC flag into the shoulder stripes in sort of two-birds with one stone effect. The idea felt rather original as I decided to use it in the close-up imagery and I certainly did not intentionally steal or borrow it from your or Eve’s work.

      I am aware of the timeline with which all of this happened, and that I saw your and Eve’s designs before I even started working on the close-up images that I created as the first round of voting wound down. As a result, I see and appreciate the reasons for your suspicion and anger. Other than outlining the reasons and motivations with which I acted, which did not include in any way an intent to steal your or Eve’s ideas, I can only say that out of my respect for other people’s creative property, especially in a contest setting, I would have never willingly acted so disrespectfully to you or Eve’s work.

      With that said and my motivations laid bare, I do respect your concerns. I honestly can not apologize for stealing or borrowing your or Eve’s ideas because I honestly do not think that I did so, despite the similarities of the star & shoulder stripes in our designs. Had I intentionally done so, had I looked back at your designs and knowingly thought to myself “Man, HHH and Eve are really on the money with that stars & shoulder stripes idea, I’ve got to use that!”, had I done that, I would certainly be apologizing, and doing so profusely. However, without such intent or motivation, I can’t.

      What I will do though, is give credit where credit is due: both you and Eve not only came up with interesting overall concepts and designs but coincidentally and simultaneously came up with a DC flag-inspired, star & shoulder stripe idea which was obviously interesting and compelling enough that both of you included it in your designs. I (obviously) couldn’t agree with more that this idea was a good one as I also used it in my design for similar and also different reasons.

      Again, I appreciate you voicing your concerns as I am thankful to have been made known about the similarities in our designs and how upset it has understandably made you feel. I genuinely intended no disrespect for your or Eve’s creative work and appreciate the opportunity to explain my intentions and motivations in this comment section. Thanks.

      • Tim E. O'B | June 10, 2012 at 11:42 pm |

        and the award for longest post ever goes to…

        • Brittain | June 11, 2012 at 12:37 am |

          Tim E. O’B: HAHAHA. I’m honored to have won the longest post award! (Curious, is the award called a Longie?) Anyways, I’d like to thank God, my mom, my mom’s mom, my mom’s mom’s mom… (violins start playing)

      • concealed78 | June 11, 2012 at 12:00 am |

        Who are you going to vote for President in November 2012?

        • Tim E. O'B | June 11, 2012 at 12:29 am |

          Lukas Hecken 2012

  • JGoodrch | June 10, 2012 at 4:28 pm |

    Scandal – cool. (I feel like Butt-Head).

    Heard that song the other day & had to smile.

  • Neal | June 10, 2012 at 5:10 pm |

    The Chiefs haven’t used that Indian logo since 1971, which by my count was 41 years ago. Also the Chiefs were named after the mayor of Kansas City, H. Roe Bartle, whose nickname was “Chief”

    • Ricko | June 10, 2012 at 7:07 pm |

      There’s quite a difference between naming a team after someone, and picking a name that also happens to give a nod to someone.

      The choice of “Chiefs” was decidedly the latter.

      To say it’s the former is another of those after-the-fact myths that gets repeated so often people think it’s true.

      And, btw, the mayor’s nickname came from his work with an organization that used Native American imagery and terms like crazy.

      You could look it up.

      But no one ever bothers. Easier to swallow the B.S. because we think we’ve discovered an interesting and obscure little tidbit.

      • Brittain | June 10, 2012 at 10:20 pm |

        I always enjoy learning what I didn’t know, but I do think that this history is lost on the vast majority of people that have any interaction with the Kansas City Chiefs. Until reading what you said, I had no reason to think that the team wasn’t named after American Indian stereotypes. As much as being filled in on this history helps, I don’t think that the team is doing much of anything to influence people to see it this way. Did the man that the team is named after keep an arrowhead collection? Did he do the “tomahawk chop” when we got excited? No matter the reasons for naming the team the way they did, they sure aren’t doing much to honor this man other than promoting stereotypes of American Indian people and culture.

        • Ricko | June 10, 2012 at 10:55 pm |

          What I meant was that the NFL, or someone, has through the years “spun” the story to create an “Oh, no, they didn’t name the team after Native Americans” feeling about it.

          Never said the mayor’s nickname wasn’t a part of it. But it sure as hell wasn’t ALL of it. Or even the focal point of it.

        • Ricko | June 10, 2012 at 11:03 pm |

          The Mayors nickname was derived from his scouting experience, which adopts many Native American images…

          From a seach of “Kansas City Chiefs nickname”…

          Hunt agreed to relocate the franchise to Kansas City on May 22, 1963 and on May 26 the team was renamed the Kansas City Chiefs.[6][8][9] Hunt and head coach Hank Stram initially planned on retaining the Texans name, but a fan contest determined the new “Chiefs” name in honor of Mayor Bartle’s nickname that he acquired in his professional role as Scout Executive of the St. Joseph and Kansas City Boy Scout Councils and founder of the Scouting Society, the Tribe of Mic-O-Say.

          http://en.wikipedia....

          They picked Chiefs to honor him. Not to name the team AFTER him. If the had, the logo would have been a politician, not this…
          http://www.bluecornc...

  • Gil Neumann | June 10, 2012 at 6:33 pm |

    Agreed — the Homestead Grays unis are beautiful. Both the Pirates and the Nationals have donned throwback uniforms for the Grays for a total of nine times.

    http://en.wikipedia....

    On May 3, 2008, the Washington Nationals “donned Grays uniforms in a game against the Pittsburgh Pirates. During the game, the Washington PA announcer referred to the Nationals as the Grays during the entire game which is incredibly awesome.”

    http://90feetofperfe...

    Phil, you’ll also recall that on “MLB Jersey Contest, Day 4″ (from Uni Watch on August 26, 2010) Scott Rogers suggested the Washington Nationals use a modified version of the Grays unis:

    http://www.uni-watch...

    When I lived in DC, I seem to recall that the Grays was one of the three finalists for the team name once the Expos moved to Washington. Many of us were hoping at that time they would go with the Grays name and unis, but the Nationals name won out in a landslide.

    • Phil Hecken | June 10, 2012 at 6:40 pm |

      Phil, you’ll also recall that on “MLB Jersey Contest, Day 4″ (from Uni Watch on August 26, 2010) Scott Rogers suggested the Washington Nationals use a modified version of the Grays unis:

      http://www.uni-watch

      ~~~

      gil…did you see where i specifically referenced scott’s design in the article?

    • Brittain | June 11, 2012 at 12:40 am |

      Wonder if the Grays unis will ever come back not as throwbacks. People seem to like keeping them around and there has got to a limit on the number of times you can be a throwback before you have to become someone’s uniform.

  • Bromotrifluoromethane | June 10, 2012 at 7:55 pm |

    After seeing they went with the Monarchs Vs Grays I’m not upset FSNP (sorry I can’t call it ROOT, that sounds stupid) didn’t have the game on last night. I prefer these TBTC games to the full retro or fauxbacks but with so much of that going on already I’ve lost all enjoyment for seeing the TBTC games. But then again I’m admittedly a modernist and not a traditionalist.

    I guess as a modernist that’s also why I actually enjoy the interleague games in baseball. I’m one of the rare few that wish they’d just do it full time like every other sport instead of insisting on these “rivalry” games every season. But then again with the schedule as it is now I have to suffer through watching my Buccos play 478 home games and another 604 road games every season against the Brewers. It feels like these teams play against each other 6 days a week all season. Given the choice between the extra 75 series against Milwaukee every year or seeing games against Toronto, Texas, Seattle, or Minnesota darn right I’d rather watch the ones against the AL teams. Then again the Brewers should be the ones going back to the AL where they belong instead of the Astros and the Pirates should be in the NL East but that’s a whole OTHER argument.

    • scott | June 10, 2012 at 10:06 pm |

      So by your logic, if the Pirates played only American League teams, there’d never be a boring game? And we should do the same in the NFL… all those Cowboys-Redskins and Patriots-Jets and Steelers-Browns games suck. Let’s only have AFC teams play NFC teams and all will be better with the sport.

      • Bromotrifluoromethane | June 10, 2012 at 11:25 pm |

        I never said I only wanted to see them play only AL teams. I’m just sick of seeing the Brewers 87,000 times a season. With so many games on the schedule there should be a way to play a weighted amount of division games while playing the rest of your league along with making sure you get in matchups against a rotating group of the other league. All these teams are part of the same league. They should all be playing each other.
        Maybe I’d care more about dropping the interleague games if the Pirates were in the NL East where they belong and playing the Natinals, Phillies, and Mets but having them stuck in the Central against teams I couldn’t care less about like the Reds, Cubs, Brewers and Cardinals. No, that doesn’t inspire me to want to see those teams 12,000 times a season. I want to see the variety and see other teams & the AL teams roll through…. Of course maybe I’d also care more if I wasn’t in high school watching Drabek and Wakefield pitching for them the last time the Pirates were even decent.

        • Jim Vilk | June 10, 2012 at 11:35 pm |

          Now if the Brewers went back to this,
          http://exhibits.base...
          I could watch them play the Pirates quite often.

          But until that happens, get your butts back to the AL.

        • Gusto44 | June 10, 2012 at 11:44 pm |

          Hey Bro,

          Have you followed the Bucs this season? Tied for first place in the NL Central! Don’t let the gloom and doom crowd get you down, there’s also a second wildcard starting this year. Keep the faith.

        • Bromotrifluoromethane | June 11, 2012 at 12:26 am |

          I’ve been watching this season but I’m far from sold on the team especially when Tabata and Alvarez are out there. I just don’t buy into either of them unless you want to see someone choke or K. They’re much improved from the last 2 decades but still at best a 65-70 win team right now. At least we finally have some hope for the future with some of the young guys along with what’s in the minors but they need to be patient and let them develop properly without the yearly fire sales.

          And again I know I’m in the .00000001 percentile but for some unexplainable reason I’ve always liked this
          http://exhibits.base...

          and this
          http://exhibits.base...

          for the Brew Crew. I liked the green in there even though I normally don’t care for green. But if they were to go back to the ball in glove full time I’d much rather this
          http://exhibits.base...
          I detest retro/fauxbacks but I admit I think this is much better than what they wear now.

  • Jim Vilk | June 10, 2012 at 8:19 pm |

    Then again the Brewers should be the ones going back to the AL where they belong instead of the Astros and the Pirates should be in the NL East but that’s a whole OTHER argument.

    AMEN!!!!

    Balanced schedule + only one week of interleague = a happier Jim

    • Phil Hecken | June 10, 2012 at 8:32 pm |

      Balanced schedule + only one week of no interleague = a happier Jim world

      (fixed)

      • scott | June 10, 2012 at 10:07 pm |

        Can only have a balanced schedule if you scrap divisions. Otherwise it makes no sense to even bother with divisions.

        • concealed78 | June 11, 2012 at 6:46 pm |

          They have divisions to sell T-shirts & caps. And so people don’t whine about finishing in 14th place or some stupid shit.

          Divisions are a fallacy – get rid of them. The top teams with the best records should be rewarded – it makes the most sense.

    • JenInChicago | June 11, 2012 at 1:25 pm |

      Thank you, Jim. I have been railing about this for years. The Brewers are only in the NL because Bud knew that he could get all that Cub fan $.

      Ideally, the D-Backs should have been in the AL when they first came into the league and Houston moved out to the NL West.

      • JenInChicago | June 11, 2012 at 1:26 pm |

        (not “he”, but the Brewers – were they still run by Wendy then? I do believe so….or not)

  • Neal | June 10, 2012 at 8:26 pm |

    I know these things Ricko, and I did look it up. So don’t blast me.

    • Ricko | June 10, 2012 at 8:42 pm |

      Then don’t repeat the fable.
      Say that one of the reasons for the choice–a “bonus” if you will–was the nod it gave to the mayor. Don’t make it sound as if it was all about him and that there was no intent to use a Native American name/image/connotation

      • Ricko | June 10, 2012 at 8:51 pm |

        Gee, that sounded cranky. I apologize.

        There is just so much stuff about the early AFL that has been mis-reported long after the fact, and that has grown to taken AS fact over the years, that I can’t help but want to straighten it out. I was tracking that league as best I could from a distance as an aspiring 14-year-old sportswriter (started getting paid to cover sports at 15), and as early as about 1969 began asking questions of any AFL insiders I met who were there.

        The Chiefs thing was more like, “Let’s go with Chiefs cuz it’s also the mayor’s nickname.” Not, “Let’s name the team after the mayor.” Big difference. At least in my mind.

  • Greg B. | June 10, 2012 at 8:30 pm |

    Amazed by the winning design. That is the most drab, depressing uniform design I have ever seen. The fact that the voting wasn’t even close is simply bizarre. I am obviously badly out of touch, or something.

  • Jim Vilk | June 10, 2012 at 10:29 pm |

    “Semiinoles”?
    http://cache.daylife...
    Gah. That’s even worse than the contrasting pits on that otherwise cool gold uni.

    And nice sleeve stripes, Stanford.

    • Gusto44 | June 10, 2012 at 11:28 pm |

      I do recall FSU having bright gold monochrome uniforms in the 1980s, looked like the Pirates set.

  • Matthew | June 10, 2012 at 10:52 pm |

    I’m a little confused as to why the Chiefs are getting such a bad rap for thier name. I don’t think of it to be nearly as offensive as Redskins. What’s the difference between being a Chief and being a General? I have been to many games at Arrowhead and I don’t see alot of negative stereotypes. Maybe as a Chiefs fan I am just taking the comments hard. lol.

    • Phil Hecken | June 10, 2012 at 11:00 pm |

      yeah…

      i can’t see how anyone could possibly take something so innocuous as the name “Chiefs” and turn it into something stereotypically negative

      it’s not the name “Chiefs” that’s so bad…it’s what the fans do with it

      • Matthew | June 11, 2012 at 12:06 am |

        I don’t even find any of those pictures offensive. To me that’s just like wearing a cheesehead at a Packers game. Some fans do it because its part of the tradition of the team, not to be insensitive to other cultures.

        • Phil Hecken | June 11, 2012 at 12:17 am |

          “I don’t even find any of those pictures offensive. To me that’s just like wearing a cheesehead at a Packers game.”

          ~~~

          yes, it’s exactly like that

      • Matthew | June 11, 2012 at 1:21 pm |

        The point I’m trying to make is that although you or somebody else might find it offensive to wear Indian attire to a game when your team mascot is a Chief. They aren’t dressing up as a middle finger to the Indian culture. Are 49ers fans that dress up as prospectors or Patriots fans that dress up in red white and blue being just as offensive?

    • walter | June 10, 2012 at 11:05 pm |

      Syracuse Chiefs are now using a railroad locomotive as their mascot. Chiefs is a good, flexible nickname that lends itself to plenty of interpretations.

    • Winter | June 10, 2012 at 11:34 pm |

      Growing up in Missouri, I always thought the Chiefs’ name was a reference to the Scout statue.

      • NinerEd | June 11, 2012 at 11:40 am |

        Actually, the NHL’s Kansas City Scouts were named after the Scout statue (which appeared in the logo). They were supposed to be the MoHawks (“Mo” for Missouri), but the Blackhawks objected.

  • Tim E. O'B | June 10, 2012 at 11:43 pm |

    It’s days like today I’m glad I’m not the feature.

    :D

  • sara xaos | June 11, 2012 at 4:04 am |

    glad to see Brittan’s Washington selection win. had no idea he was the Whiteskins guy. Great work!

    • Brittain | June 11, 2012 at 10:11 am |

      Thanks Sara!