And Their Team Names Don’t End in ‘S’ Either

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Big day in the NBA yesterday, as two teams came out with new logos. There wasn’t too much suspense on these, as various leaks had been floating around for a while, but let’s take a look now that the designs have been officially unveiled.

We’ll start with the Magic, who’ve basically gone from funky to streamlined (further details here). On the one hand, the old logo had at least one star too many (I would’ve eliminated the one that dotted the i), but it also had an appealing pop-art appeal, sort of like old comic book graphics. The new version feels like a bad mismatch of elements, because the type feels so different from the basketball graphic. The main thing this new design has going for it is that the typography matches what’s on the jerseys, so at least there’s some consistency. But the type on the jersey is snoozeville — who wants to be consistent with that? There’s nothing particularly objectionable about the new design, but there’s nothing particularly good about it either — it just completes the sterile makeover that began with the new uniforms two years ago. So is it good or is it stupid? Pretty stupid.

Moving on, let’s take a look at the Jazz (further details here). You all know I hate purple and love green, so this is obviously an upgrade. But that design, despite being listed as the primary logo, doesn’t really mean anything and will probably be phased out in another year or two, because they’re also reviving the music note logo, which will be appearing on the floor and, I’m pretty sure, on the new uniforms, which are slated to be unveiled on August 16th. Now, if we’re simply talking about aesthetics in a vacuum, I’ve always liked the music note design and also like the new colors (plus it’s nice that they added the missing line to the basketball. But for a franchise whose team name already presents an identity crisis, this mish-mash of logos and colors from different eras just adds to the confusion. Face it, guys, it’s time to admit defeat and start over. Blow the whole thing up — new team name, new brand identity, the works. Stupid.

Also, am I the only one who thinks it’s weird for teams to be trotting out their new designs while the NBA Finals are taking place? Like, wouldn’t the draft be a better time? Just sayin’.

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The Rally Monkey, 2010 edition: My buddy Rob Walker, who runs the excellent Murketing site and also writes the “Consumed” column for The New York Times Magazine, is intrigued by those incredibly annoying horns the vuvuzela phenomenon. “What I’m looking for is, basically, anybody who’s sort of become pro-vuvuzela, maybe even buying one,” he says. “Given that there is a connection between certain sport fans and obnoxious behavior (not you, of course!), it’s not hard for me to imagine people showing up at Yankees games with these things.”

Are you pro-vuvuzela? If so, feel free to contact Rob directly. Thanks.

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Stirrup Club Update

By Comrade Robert Marshall

Comrades,

I regret to report that I was recently ambushed by a battalion of rogue pajamists. My injuries were serious, and as I lay near death and delirious in my hospital bed, the specter of Saint Lajoie hovered over me, telling me it was not yet my time to stop fighting the pajamist, and that I would be guided back to health by the spirit of past stirrupists, many of whom had fought for the right to wear proper hosiery in times much more challenging than our own. As I convalesced, I could feel the presence of these stirrup stalwarts of years past. I felt the torture they had had often endured as punishment for holding fast to their hosiery principles, from the ancient Persian empires and Chinese dynasties to the Inquisition and the New World, and even in Norse mythology. Thus inspired and fortified by the struggles of these noble warriors, I fairly leapt out of bed, ready to rejoin the great cause.

How will we honour these brave fighters this month? Our first design is a stirrup I have been meaning to offer since last summer: the Milwaukee Braves. Next we will offer a rare phantom stirrup: the design that the 1962 Mets were supposed to wear, although they never did. And in honor of the recently completed Stanley Cup Finals, I find it fitting for our final two stirrups to honour the hard-fighting Flyers of Philadelphia and of course, the champions from the Madhouse on Madison, the Chicago Blackhawks.

Ordering instructions for all models, old and new, can be found here.

Giveaway Reminder: I’ve currently giving away an Africa Unity soccer jersey from Puma. Full details here.

Uni Watch News Ticker: My pencil sharpener collection, which I began in January, is complete! Here it is from the other side. … Did you know the Yankees used to have an amazingly goofy-looking mascot? He was called Dandy, and there was an absolutely brilliant story about him in yesterday’s Wall Street Journal, of all places. Trust me, you’ll want to stop what you’re doing and read this right now. … “Karen Allen is so cool, says Kirsten, quite accurately. … Looks like Rutgers may have new football uniforms, at least judging by this video game screen grab (with thanks to Jacob Kubuske). … Good article on the history of soccer goalkeepers’ gloves here (big thanks to Matt Schudel). … Reprinted from yesterday’s comments: Kareem at a charity softball game. … Nate Neumann notes that umpire Laz Diaz has the U.S. Marine Corps logo on his chest protector. Diaz has served in the Marine Corps Reserves, but it seems like umpires are the last ones who should be wearing unauthorized uniform elements, no? … I might be more inclined to watch the World Cup if it were all conducted in Lego (with thanks to Matt Shevin). … Bowling facilities almost always have an even number of lanes — two lanes, four lanes, six lanes, 24 lanes, 40 lanes. So I was intrigued when Uni Watch’s own Bryan Redemske sent me this shot of a three-lane venue in Ellsworth, Nebraska. “Check out the cards hanging from the ceiling,” says Bryan. “Those are the brands from the nearby ranches!” I totally need to bowl there immediately. Road trip! … A couple of guys in Baltimore have started a sports brand-marketing firm with a great name: Two Man Advantage. … It’s overpriced, but this is one cool wastebasket (great find by Ben Traxel). … Oh baby, here’s a real gem: a bound set of 1920s Spalding college football guides. Scroll down and click through the photos — look at those cover designs! Someone please snap that up. … Hey, Michael Princip, are you gonna get one of these Seahawks charcoal grills? … Terry Duroncelet was picking up some milk at Albertson’s yesterday and was intrigued by his cashier’s unusual Lakers jersey. … According to the EA Sports Teambuilder site, Arizona’s new uniforms will look like this. Not sure I’m in love with those fade-away stripes on the pants and helmets, but I’ll reserve judgment until we can see a real-life version (with thanks to William Abbey Jr.). … Mike Rowinski reports that the A’s will be wearing these 1970s throwbacks a week from Saturday. Looks like they really botched the design — the jerseys have drop-shoulders (unheard of in the ’70s), the sleeves are too long, the V-neck is cut way too low (should look like this), the “A’s” insignia is the wrong shade of green, the snaps on the pants should be off-center and should also not be white, I don’t think that kelly-collared undershirt ever existed back in the day, and thank god the lower-leg portion of the photo is cropped off. But hey, they guy on the right is wearing an afro wig and big gold chains, so all that really matters is that they’re treating the whole affair as a ’70s kitsch-fest, wheeeee! … Interesting note about the Red Sox’s alternate caps at the very bottom of this Q&A page (with thanks to Jesse Rogers).

 

166 comments to And Their Team Names Don’t End in ‘S’ Either

  • mtjaws | June 16, 2010 at 7:26 am |

    On Saturday vs Tampa Bay, the Marlins will be giving away “Marlins air horns“. I don’t know if they are exactly like the vuvuzelas, but the timing is interesting.

  • JTH | June 16, 2010 at 7:48 am |

    the jerseys have drop-shoulders (unheard of in the ’70s), the sleeves are too long, the V-neck is cut way too low, the “A’s” insignia is the wrong shade of green, the snaps on the pants should be off-center and should also not be white, I don’t think that kelly-collared undershirt ever existed back in the day, and thank god the lower-leg portion of the photo is cropped off.

    But aside from that…

    Actually, it looks like afro/stache dude has green stirrups over gold sanis (or possibly 2-in-1s).

  • sobrairk | June 16, 2010 at 7:52 am |

    I liked the A’s gold with white letters and numbers better.

  • steve | June 16, 2010 at 8:18 am |

    The basketball’s line wasn’t missing from the old Jazz logo. It is showing the other side of the ball.

  • Terry Proctor | June 16, 2010 at 8:25 am |

    The A’s uniforms were made by Stall and Dean for Tim McAuliffe. S&D also made the Bosox unis for years.
    The pants are a joke. As I explained to Paul before, the actual pants had a large belt tunnel so that a conventional belt could be worn. The real belt was then covered by the striped elastic band. The offset snaps covered the belt buckle. How difficult would it have been to get a real old doubleknit A’s uniform and copy it? Probably too difficult for a company like today’s MLB uniform manufacturer (you know who they are). Given their recent track record on the spelling of team and player names do we have the right to assume they are smart enough to figure out how to copy and re-make a “throwback” uniform. More like “throwup” uniforms given the abortions the teams end up with.

  • Rob | June 16, 2010 at 8:46 am |

    mtjaws: On Saturday vs Tampa Bay, the Marlins will be giving away “Marlins air horns“.I don’t know if they are exactly like the vuvuzelas, but the timing is interesting.

    Interesting.

    You know, I don’t see what the big complaint is about those vuvuzelas. The TV broadcasters do a good job of turning them down so they’re not overwhelming and if anything, they mark that this is South Africa, as in I tune into a game, and I know it’s in South Africa.

    They’re not any worse than the Rally Monkey at Angels games or the Macarena at Yankee Stadium.

  • LI Phil | June 16, 2010 at 9:05 am |

    been catching a few minutes of hondouras/chile and it appears the kazoos are even more muted than yesterday (although that could just be my wishful hearing); but definitely lower than over the weekend

    and a “goal” was just disallowed, and you can barely just hear the crowd cheer, before being completely drowned out by the horns again

    it’s like those with the horns aren’t even watching the action on the pitch…

  • Bernard | June 16, 2010 at 9:09 am |

    Once again, I am highly entertained and impressed with Comrade Marshall’s historical stirrup oppression imagery. You, RPM, are the boss.

  • JimWa | June 16, 2010 at 9:12 am |

    Really strange that on the Jazz own website, they’d have the wrong representation (see towards the bottom) of their new old logo … When I say new old, I don’t mean the updated version of the original New Orleans logo, but the new version of the old logo which was the new logo until yesterday. So you have the old old old logo, the old old new logo, the new old old logo, and the new new old logo, right?

    http://www.nba.com/j...

  • Dan P. | June 16, 2010 at 9:15 am |

    When the Hornets moved to New Orleans, I thought they should have traded nicknames with Utah. Utah is the beehive state after all.

  • Ricko | June 16, 2010 at 9:16 am |

    Not to mention the monochrome gold version of that A’s set was, I believe, worn only in the All Star Game, possibly only by Vida Blue and certainly not more than twice.

    In other words, not even CLOSE to the way the A’s regularly looked in those days.

    Major botch job from just about every angle.

    In other words, typically typical of such things.

    Are there, like, no historical photos lying around the A’s offices anywhere? I mean, old Sports Illustrateds…something?

    —Ricko

  • LI Phil | June 16, 2010 at 9:22 am |

    Ricko:

    Not to mention the monochrome gold version of that A’s set was, I believe, worn only in the All Star Game, possibly only by Vida Blue and certainly not more than twice.

    In other words, not even CLOSE to the way the A’s regularly looked in those days.

    Major botch job from just about every angle.

    In other words, typically typical of such things.

    Are there, like, no historical photos lying around the A’s offices anywhere? I mean, old Sports Illustrateds…something?

    —Ricko

    was gonna say the same thing (about the a’s rarely wearing the all gold)…like the all green monochrome, it may have been a once a year thing…

    according to okkonen, it was worn in both the 1973 and 1974 seasons, but i’ve yet to come across a photo (other than that vida screen shot) of the all-gold polyester pullover look…

    they wore the all gold often in the flannel days, but as far as the gold pants during the pullover days? a real rarity

    i kind of shudder to see what the repro’s will look like on the field

  • Andy | June 16, 2010 at 9:24 am |

    steve: The basketball’s line wasn’t missing from the old Jazz logo. It is showing the other side of the ball.

    A basketball looks like this on both sides. Maybe an age old basketball had a gap between the two curved lines (like the old Jazz logo), but a modern one looks like this on both sides, and has for quite a few decades.

  • JimWa | June 16, 2010 at 9:28 am |

    Dan P.: When the Hornets moved to New Orleans, I thought they should have traded nicknames with Utah. Utah is the beehive state after all.

    I had thought the same thing until I saw the website:

    The Jazz name was selected because of its definition in the dictionary: “collective improvisation.”

    If that’s not a spot-on way to describe their logo history, I don’t know what is!

  • Andy | June 16, 2010 at 9:33 am |

    I love the vuvuzelas. For me, it adds an edge-of-your-seat excitement, urgency and buzz (literally and figuratively) to the game. Personally, I don’t find the sound of a vuvuzela any more annoying than the constant din of cheering one might hear at a hockey game. It’s a different sound, but we’re accustomed to listening to the roar of the crowd for the duration of the game, not so with the buzz of the vuvuzela. Whatever the fans do in the stands is part of the game. If you don’t want fans cheering how they want to cheer, don’t sell any tickets.

  • Andy | June 16, 2010 at 9:34 am |

    JimWa:
    I had thought the same thing until I saw the website: The Jazz name was selected because of its definition in the dictionary: “collective improvisation.”
    If that’s not a spot-on way to describe their logo history, I don’t know what is!

    I thought it was an analogy for basketball, or team sports in general.

  • Ricko | June 16, 2010 at 9:34 am |

    I think the all kelly mono was a one shot.
    For one thing, in those photos from that one game, nobody’s pants have been tailored/taped. Strictly of the rack. Had they intended to wear them regularly that wouldn’t have been the case.

    Okkonen may have included the all-gold simply because those were the two years it was worn in the All-Star Game.

    We need to clear something up. Around 1962 flannel began disappearing in MLB, and it vanished rather quickly. Many teams changed to some kind of cotton-nylon blend or something (need Terry Proctor’s expertise here). The A’s red, white and blue vested unis the year prior to the kelly-green were their first non-flannel. And they wore the all-gold for every game in ’63, and in ’64 the rotation of gold, white (home) and gold, seafoam green (road) began.

    —Ricko

  • Kyle | June 16, 2010 at 9:37 am |

    Paul:

    Is that a picture of a naked female bowler next to your computer. If so, whats the story behind that?

    (How many of you are going back to look at it now? ha)

  • JTH | June 16, 2010 at 9:42 am |

    Andy: I love the vuvuzelas. For me, it adds an edge-of-your-seat excitement, urgency and buzz (literally and figuratively) to the game. Personally, I don’t find the sound of a vuvuzela any more annoying than the constant din of cheering one might hear at a hockey game. It’s a different sound, but we’re accustomed to listening to the roar of the crowd for the duration of the game, not so with the buzz of the vuvuzela. Whatever the fans do in the stands is part of the game. If you don’t want fans cheering how they want to cheer, don’t sell any tickets.

    I really don’t have a dog in this vuvuzela fight, but I can say that they’re not helping to win me over as a fan to this so-called “beautiful game” one bit. I was looking forward to hearing some of the spontaneous chants/singing/drumming, etc. that I was expecting.

    Whatever.

    Anyway, Andy, as for “the constant din of cheering one might hear at a hockey game” I can honestly say that I’ve never attended, watched on TV or listened on the radio to a game where this phenomenon has happened. Whose fans do this?

  • marc | June 16, 2010 at 9:43 am |

    “Dandy, on the other hand, got thrown in a dumpster.” LMAO! Thanks, Paul, that was a great read. A real shame for Mr. Harrison and Ms. Erickson though. Not being a reader of the WSJ, is it common practice for them to prefix a person’s name with Mr. or Ms. after they’re first mentioned or is it just this particular reporter? If so, it’s a nice touch.

    In other news… good Lord, Karen Allen is simply spectacular.

  • Jeff | June 16, 2010 at 9:47 am |

    Kyle: Paul:Is that a picture of a naked female bowler next to your computer. If so, whats the story behind that?(How many of you are going back to look at it now? ha)

    If that it what it seems to be, I’d call it a writer’s muse.

    See those bowling instruction records up top in the same photo? I just found one of those at my local used record store and immediately thought of Paul. I see he already has it, though!

  • Ricko | June 16, 2010 at 9:53 am |

    JTH:
    I really don’t have a dog in this vuvuzela fight, but I can say that they’re not helping to win me over as a fan to this so-called “beautiful game” one bit. I was looking forward to hearing some of the spontaneous chants/singing/drumming, etc. that I was expecting.Whatever.Anyway, Andy, as for “the constant din of cheering one might hear at a hockey game” I can honestly say that I’ve never attended, watched on TV or listened on the radio to a game where this phenomenon has happened.Whose fans do this?

    You make a really good point, Jim. Almost nothing is without effect, either positive or negative. It’s a question of degrees, of course. And if it isn’t helping move forward, then it’s holding you back.

    So it comes down to one simple question:
    Are the vuvuzelas making watching the games better or worse?
    Because the truth is that “have no effect” really isn’t a valid answer. Not in the grander sense.

    They may have no effect on any one of us individually…but if the overall result is that they are subtracting from the enjoyment of attending the game, or from watching the telecasts (and possibly hurting their numbers), then they’re a negative.

    Because they ARE getting in the way of winning over fans. And pretty much anyone selling anything knows you are ALWAYS trying to win new customers.

    —Ricko

  • Dupes | June 16, 2010 at 9:54 am |

    could someone direct me to the teambuilder site the new Arizona unis were found on? I tried Easports.com and logged in and I could only find the old Arizona unis…where did the new ones come from?

    Thanks, Dupes

  • marc | June 16, 2010 at 9:54 am |

    Hey Paul, what sort of pig body parts are in the jar (atop the “Spotted Dick”) on top of the Coke machine?

  • marc | June 16, 2010 at 9:55 am |

    Apropos to absolutely nothing, check out this guy’s miniature sitcom sets.

  • Paul Lukas | June 16, 2010 at 9:57 am |

    Kyle: Paul:Is that a picture of a naked female bowler next to your computer. If so, whats the story behind that?(How many of you are going back to look at it now? ha)

    I actually ran that in the Ticker a few years ago. It’s a tearsheet from Playboy, given to me by my longtime pal Kelly Hogan cuz she knows I love bowling. Here’s a better look (NSFW):
    http://farm4.static....

  • marc | June 16, 2010 at 9:58 am |

    Ricko:
    Because they ARE getting in the way of winning over fans. And pretty much anyone selling anything knows you are ALWAYS trying to win new customers.
    —Ricko

    That’s the entire argument in a nutshell. If FIFA is trying to win over the US, the vuvuzelas ain’t helping.

  • Rob Ullman | June 16, 2010 at 9:59 am |

    FANTASTIC new stirrup choices. I received my first pair from Comrade Marshall last week, and I fear I may be hooked.

  • Paul Lukas | June 16, 2010 at 10:01 am |

    marc: Hey Paul, what sort of pig body parts are in the jar (atop the “Spotted Dick”) on top of the Coke machine?

    The name of the product is, and I quote, “Hormel Pork Tidbits.” The relevant entry in the ingredients listing simply says, “Pork.”

  • Ricko | June 16, 2010 at 10:03 am |

    A question.

    Since when is a constant din part of the excitement of the spectating or viewing experience? The sound of most any sport is all about ebbs and flows, crescendos, eruptions and, sometimes, stunned silence. Not one sound at one volume for three hours.

    White noise isn’t exciting or even ambiance. It’s just…there.
    Like an uninteresting wallpaper pattern going on and on and on with no artwork, no decoration…just the same frickin’ wallpaper.

    —Ricko

  • marc | June 16, 2010 at 10:03 am |

    Those A’s throwbacks are weak-ass. Afro guy’s right leg looks like he’s sportin’ gold sannies with green ‘rups (real? fake? ah, who gives a shite… it sucks).

  • marc | June 16, 2010 at 10:03 am |

    Paul Lukas:
    The name of the product is, and I quote, “Hormel Pork Tidbits.” The relevant entry in the ingredients listing simply says, “Pork.”

    So, it’s basically lips and a*holes.

  • ScottyM | June 16, 2010 at 10:05 am |

    Funny, the Magic kept the bland part of their logo intact … the ball. But changed their wordmark, which had the most equity (since ’89). Not that they had to keep it same … but a nod to its whimsy and flare would’ve been nice.

    Tastes like chicken. I mean, looks like Dallas’ logo. What design shop is responsible for this ubiquity?

    “Timeless” my ass. Tellin’ ya folks, we’ll all look back upon the late 90s/00s as a ghost town era of sports logo design. ItAllLooksTheSame.com

  • interlockingtc | June 16, 2010 at 10:05 am |

    Actually, I prefer the Jazz’s (Jazz’?…Jazzez?…) original music note logo better. I noticed the missing line when I was a kid, but I kinda liked the implication rather than the updated literal depiction.

    But onto more important things: When I read these words: “…three-lane venue in Ellsworth, Nebraska” I knew the picture would be great. And I’ve never been to Nebraska.

    Yeah, I think a road trip would be in order.

  • marc | June 16, 2010 at 10:10 am |

    Paul, in the first photo of the pencil sharpeners, does the first one on the right mounted to the top have a wooden collection box (not sure of the term) or is it something like bakelite? Don’t think I’ve ever seen one like that. Very cool.

    I never really noticed till now how pencil sharpeners kinda resemble fishing reels.

  • Ricko | June 16, 2010 at 10:14 am |

    ScottyM: Funny, the Magic kept the bland part of their logo intact … the ball.But changed their wordmark, which had the most equity (since ‘89).Not that they had to keep it same … but a nod to its whimsy and flare would’ve been nice.Tastes like chicken.I mean, looks like Dallas’ logo.What design shop is responsible for this ubiquity?“Timeless” my ass.Tellin’ ya folks, we’ll all look back upon the late 90s/00s as a ghost town era of sports logo design. ItAllLooksTheSame.com

    Sister site is WhenEverybodyWoreBlack.com

  • JTH | June 16, 2010 at 10:16 am |

    Has anyone noticed that the offsides rule in soccer is complete horseshit?

    I mean, I understand that it eliminates cherry-picking, but good God, just paint a blue line on the field already.

  • pk | June 16, 2010 at 10:16 am |

    RE: Vuvuzelas

    I tried watching the World Cup, it’s the only time I do have some interest in soccer…the constant drone of those things make it unbearable for me.

    If anything, the Vuvuzelas have simply turned me off from this world cup…I can’t even watch it on UniVision (let’s be honest, the Spanish commentators DO make it more fun, especially when a goal is scored)…Soccer loses in my mind on this one

  • marc | June 16, 2010 at 10:17 am |

    Ricko:
    Sister site is WhenEverybodyWoreBlack.com

    And it’s “funny uncle” is TealIsCool.com

  • Ricko | June 16, 2010 at 10:18 am |

    Here’s an idea to sort of put the vuvuvzelas in perspective:

    Next time there’s a game on TV that you really want to watch, have someone sit 20 feet from you and shave with an electric razor the entire time.

    That gonna make the experience better for you? Or worse?

    —Ricko

  • Ricko | June 16, 2010 at 10:20 am |

    JTH: Has anyone noticed that the offsides rule in soccer is complete horseshit?I mean, I understand that it eliminates cherry-picking, but good God, just paint a blue line on the field already.

    Or let ‘em cherry pick. Always thought one of the weaknesses in soccer, for Americans anyway, it that it has no Long Bomb, no Home Run, no Fast Break…no “Holy Shit, he’s open deep!!!”

    —Ricko

  • Paul Lukas | June 16, 2010 at 10:21 am |

    marc: Paul, in the first photo of the pencil sharpeners, does the first one on the right mounted to the top have a wooden collection box (not sure of the term) or is it something like bakelite? Don’t think I’ve ever seen one like that. Very cool.

    I never really noticed till now how pencil sharpeners kinda resemble fishing reels.

    No — that’s semi-clear amber plastic, not wood.

  • marc | June 16, 2010 at 10:22 am |

    Something weird about the three-lane bowling alley. It looks like a possible fourth lane to the left is getting cut off. Is that a phony wall hiding another lane? Kinda looks that way. Sad that lane #1 is basically a storage locker and not in use.

  • Ricko | June 16, 2010 at 10:24 am |

    marc: Something weird about the three-lane bowling alley. It looks like a possible fourth lane to the left is getting cut off. Is that a phony wall hiding another lane? Kinda looks that way. Sad that lane #1 is basically a storage locker and not in use.

    Graphic above the pins (far left) is truncated, too.

  • Lloyd Davis | June 16, 2010 at 10:24 am |

    JTH: V-neck

  • LI Phil | June 16, 2010 at 10:31 am |

    JTH:

    Has anyone noticed that the offsides rule in soccer is complete horseshit?

    lots of rules seem completely arbitrary…as is their enforcement

    but then, i don’t watch enough of it to understand that (i understand the offsides rule, despite it making no sense)…i’d imagine someone completely unfamiliar with anything but the rudimentary aspects of baseball would feel the same towards that game, so im not criticizing soccer

    just doesn’t seem to make sense…but they’ve been playing it for a long time so obviously the rule has served the sport well

    i’d imagine it’d be like trying to explain the strike zone to someone who wants a definitive “box” to “know” what constitutes a strike to a given batter

    or something

  • Ricko | June 16, 2010 at 10:34 am |

    LI Phil:
    lots of rules seem completely arbitrary…as is their enforcementbut then, i don’t watch enough of it to understand that (i understand the offsides rule, despite it making no sense)…i’d imagine someone completely unfamiliar with anything but the rudimentary aspects of baseball would feel the same towards that game, so im not criticizing soccerjust doesn’t seem to make sense…but they’ve been playing it for a long time so obviously the rule has served the sport welli’d imagine it’d be like trying to explain the strike zone to someone who wants a definitive “box” to “know” what constitutes a strike to a given batteror something

    “Excuse me, you seem to have caught the defense upfield and gotten behind them. Not altogether sporting. We’d best stop play so they can regroup.”

    Oh, I know that’s not what it’s about. But it sure feels like it sometimes.

    —Ricko

  • JTH | June 16, 2010 at 10:36 am |

    Lloyd Davis:

    Who you callin’ v-neck, fool?

  • JTH | June 16, 2010 at 10:40 am |

    LI Phil:
    lots of rules seem completely arbitrary…as is their enforcementbut then, i don’t watch enough of it to understand that (i understand the offsides rule, despite it making no sense)…i’d imagine someone completely unfamiliar with anything but the rudimentary aspects of baseball would feel the same towards that game, so im not criticizing soccerjust doesn’t seem to make sense…but they’ve been playing it for a long time so obviously the rule has served the sport welli’d imagine it’d be like trying to explain the strike zone to someone who wants a definitive “box” to “know” what constitutes a strike to a given batteror something

    The rule makes perfect sense — do everything you can to eliminate good scoring chances.

    Oh, also, if a defender lets the guy he’s supposed to be covering get between him and the goal? No problem. Let’s just punish the offensive team for that.

  • Hank | June 16, 2010 at 10:52 am |

    Vuvuzelas? Off-sides rules? ‘Scoring’ chances? So glad I don’t give a hoot about soccer.

  • BuckeyeMark | June 16, 2010 at 10:55 am |

    vuvuzelas are just a beating … and whoever pointed out that they don’t seem to have anything to do with the game is spot on. they just drone on and on regardless of what is happening on the field. everything else I can think of that is annoying in sports (thundersticks) at least has something to do with the action on the field.

    the offsides rule is just rough. I’m not a soccer fanatic but it seems created to do nothing but make it harder to score. has tons of scoring been a problem in soccer? Brazil beat someone 124-87 and so they had to fix it?

  • Ricko | June 16, 2010 at 11:11 am |

    BuckeyeMark: vuvuzelas are just a beating … and whoever pointed out that they don’t seem to have anything to do with the game is spot on.they just drone on and on regardless of what is happening on the field.everything else I can think of that is annoying in sports (thundersticks) at least has something to do with the action on the field.the offsides rule is just rough.I’m not a soccer fanatic but it seems created to do nothing but make it harder to score.has tons of scoring been a problem in soccer?Brazil beat someone 124-87 and so they had to fix it?

    Teams were running up the score. They were getting finals like 3-0 an’ stuff. Appalling.

  • M.Princip | June 16, 2010 at 11:11 am |

    Thanks Paul, I’d be afraid to get one of those Seahawks charcoal grills because it might end up like this: http://www.youtube.c...

  • GoTerriers | June 16, 2010 at 11:14 am |

    Personally, I just like saying “vuvuzella”. It sounds naughty . . ..

  • Ricko | June 16, 2010 at 11:19 am |

    GoTerriers: Personally, I just like saying “vuvuzella”.It sounds naughty . . ..

    Or like the name of a famous Hungarian exotic dancer from around 1912.

    VuVu Zella, the Bombshell of Budapest

  • Jeremy Brahm | June 16, 2010 at 11:20 am |

    If you think the offside rule is hard now, an offensive player cannot be closer than second defensive player when a pass is received. The rule used to be three players in 1856 to 1925.

    Borrowing from Dana Carrey, the games were 0-0 and we liked it!

    The highest scoring international match ever is a 31-0 win by Australia over American Samoa in Oceania region qualifying for the 2002 World Cup.
    http://en.wikipedia....

    Hockey and soccer are similar in that goals can be hard to come by. There are a couple of things that I would like to have done to the offside rule.
    1. No offsides immediately on free kicks and corner kicks. This would allow for players to attack rebounds and attack the goal. Defenders will hate it, but attacking soccer is attractive soccer.
    2. No offsides on passes from your defensive half. I always love to have the offside call about 10 yards from the center line. If your opponent cannot stop you coming up the field, you should be able to score (kind of like the empty net, except with only the keeper to beat).

  • John English | June 16, 2010 at 11:21 am |

    I love the A’s throwbacks. Probably just because I love the A’s. This will be fun and hopefully the Pirates (their opponents) do something creative too. Maybe the all black 70′s set.

  • Matt | June 16, 2010 at 11:30 am |

    Shame about the A’s uniforms. Didn’t they do a nice job with a 1970 vest a few years ago? As I recall, they even wore yellow helmets for the occasion. Couldn’t find a link. I wish the A’s would swap a white or even yellow vest for their black alternate.

    The offside rule is almost 100 years old and prevents a team from parking players in front of the opponent’s goal. At the time, most teams played with five forwards (as opposed to 2 or even 1 today) so it might be fair to say it solved a problem that doesn’t exist today. But it doesn’t bother me. If you scrapped the offside rule, you’d probably see a lot of backs just kicking the ball forward as far as they could, hopeful that their forwards were faster than the other team’s defensive backs. More goals, but less beautiful.

  • LI Phil | June 16, 2010 at 11:33 am |

    Matt:

    Shame about the A’s uniforms. Didn’t they do a nice job with a 1970 vest a few years ago? As I recall, they even wore yellow helmets for the occasion. Couldn’t find a link. I wish the A’s would swap a white or even yellow vest for their black alternate.

    here you go

    “nice” job is in the eye of the beholder

    lots of us found many problems with the throwbacks

  • Andy | June 16, 2010 at 11:52 am |

    Whenever I go to an indoor game of hockey, basketball or whatever, there’s a constant din of talking, yelling, laughing, whistling, heckling and so forth dotted with crescendos of roars and boos, or sometimes silence, much like the constant buzz of the vuvuzelas dotted with crescendos of cheering and disgust. There’s not much silence in a neutral site game, like it or not. When one teams is getting the cheers, the other team is getting the jeers.

  • JimV19 | June 16, 2010 at 12:00 pm |

    JTH:
    Who you callin’ v-neck, fool?

    NTTAWWT

  • JimV19 | June 16, 2010 at 12:19 pm |

    Even though I’ve stood up for the vuvuzelas all week, I’m in no hurry to go out and buy one.

    As I’ve said, the sound doesn’t bother me a bit while watching the game. It’s kinda charming.

    BUT, let’s not make this a worldwide phenomenon. It’s South Africa’s thing. Europe has its singing, Brazil has its drumming, Mexico has its chanting while throwing bags of urine on US fans and players (actually I could do without that one)…different experiences for different places.

    Let’s find our own thing, either in our soccer or our other sports (and hopefully our own thing is more original than canned music and cheers). Besides, some facilities here already have bans on air horns and plastic horns, so the vuvuzela fad probably won’t catch on anyway.

    How about cowbell? We could always use more cowbell, right?

  • dennis | June 16, 2010 at 12:40 pm |

    I had forgot all about Dandy the Yankee mascot. It reminded me about Mettle, the Mets mascot-mule. He used to live in the right field bullpen at Shea sometime in the late 70′s.

  • JimV19 | June 16, 2010 at 12:43 pm |

    Matt: The offside rule is almost 100 years old and prevents a team from parking players in front of the opponent’s goal.At the time, most teams played with five forwards (as opposed to 2 or even 1 today) so it might be fair to say it solved a problem that doesn’t exist today.But it doesn’t bother me.If you scrapped the offside rule, you’d probably see a lot of backs just kicking the ball forward as far as they could, hopeful that their forwards were faster than the other team’s defensive backs.More goals, but less beautiful.

    Good explanation.

    Not saying the rules of soccer couldn’t use one or two SIMPLE tweaks, but I have no problem with the offsides rule.

    Even if you got rid of it, you still wouldn’t convince some Yanks about soccer. Look at the indoor game – the only “offsides” they had was you couldn’t kick or throw the ball over three lines (the same three from hockey). Same with scoring. The original MISL had scores more like a baseball game, with far less shutouts. It was a good niche sport, but it didn’t convert all the soccer-hating masses.

    The current version tries even more to cater to the “score-hungry” American. Goals count for two points instead of one, plus there’s a three-point line (not a big fan of those ideas). And yet, the indoor game is a shell of its former self and hanging by a thread.

    The problem isn’t so much the rules, or the vuvzelas…Americans are just born and raised to dislike soccer. You’re told from an early age that it’s un-American, it’s a sissy game, it’s too complicated, etc., and you start to believe it. Heck, I fell for that for a while before I decided to watch a game and think for myself. Now, I “get it” – both outdoors and indoors. It’s really quite simple, and it’s beautiful.

    As long as they red-card all the floppers and whiners and anyone who wags his finger at a ref, that is.

  • Bernard | June 16, 2010 at 12:44 pm |

    JimV19: Even though I’ve stood up for the vuvuzelas all week, I’m in no hurry to go out and buy one.As I’ve said, the sound doesn’t bother me a bit while watching the game. It’s kinda charming.BUT, let’s not make this a worldwide phenomenon. It’s South Africa’s thing. Europe has its singing, Brazil has its drumming, Mexico has its chanting while throwing bags of urine on US fans and players (actually I could do without that one)…different experiences for different places.Let’s find our own thing, either in our soccer or our other sports (and hopefully our own thing is more original than canned music and cheers). Besides, some facilities here already have bans on air horns and plastic horns, so the vuvuzela fad probably won’t catch on anyway.How about cowbell? We could always use more cowbell, right?

    Or, what about chainsaws? They make noise (varying pitches and volume levels), and I’d have to think they’d be pretty intimidating to opposing teams and their fans. Not big chainsaws, mind you – smaller, more compact ones…

  • JimV19 | June 16, 2010 at 12:48 pm |

    Bernard:
    Or, what about chainsaws?They make noise (varying pitches and volume levels), and I’d have to think they’d be pretty intimidating to opposing teams and their fans.Not big chainsaws, mind you – smaller, more compact ones…

    The Penguins old minor-league team used to be the Cleveland Lumberjacks, and they always played that song with the chainsaws in it (by AC/DC, I think?). I loved that song.

    My son had a toy chainsaw. Get a section of those going and you could have something there…

  • Stevie McQuistan | June 16, 2010 at 12:53 pm |

    I love that Seahawks grill!

    I have one I made on my own. I bought a silver Weber, and added the Riddell logo and safety sticker, but left the sides blank like the 1976 helmets.

  • JimV19 | June 16, 2010 at 12:53 pm |

    We’re all talking about noisemakers, while at the World Cup, we have a real clothing controversy going on:
    http://g.sports.yaho...

  • Obie | June 16, 2010 at 1:02 pm |

    The Yankees mascot looks a little like Goose Gossage.

  • jowen | June 16, 2010 at 1:14 pm |

    JimV19: The Penguins old minor-league team used to be the Cleveland Lumberjacks, and they always played that song with the chainsaws in it (by AC/DC, I think?). I loved that song.My son had a toy chainsaw. Get a section of those going and you could have something there…

    I believe the chainsaw band was Jackal.

  • Ryan B | June 16, 2010 at 1:21 pm |

    marc:
    So, it’s basically lips and a*holes.

    I thought those were hot dogs.

  • JTH | June 16, 2010 at 1:25 pm |

    jowen:
    I believe the chainsaw band was Jackal.

    Jackyll, actually.

    And that song is brutal. So it’s no surprise that Jim likes it.

  • Teebz | June 16, 2010 at 1:27 pm |

    Allow me to pull out the soapbox.

    I cannot believe the constant complaints about the vuvuzelas on here. It’s something that is unique to South Africa, and they are embracing that cultural piece. What’s the big deal?

    Does everyone complain about the “Ole” song in European soccer? How about in the Bell Centre in Montreal when the Canadiens are playing? Because it happens constantly when the home team is winning.

    How about the tomahawk chop and the ridiculous signing done by the crowd at Braves games in the 1990s? That made me hate the Braves and their fans, but baseball is what it is.

    You don’t have to like South African traditions and culture, the vuvuzelas, or soccer in general, but to say that one hates soccer because of the sound of a traditional horn at a game is completely irrational and ridiculous.

  • JTH | June 16, 2010 at 1:32 pm |

    Teebz: Allow me to pull out the soapbox.I cannot believe the constant complaints about the vuvuzelas on here. It’s something that is unique to South Africa, and they are embracing that cultural piece. What’s the big deal?Does everyone complain about the “Ole” song in European soccer? How about in the Bell Centre in Montreal when the Canadiens are playing? Because it happens constantly when the home team is winning.How about the tomahawk chop and the ridiculous signing done by the crowd at Braves games in the 1990s? That made me hate the Braves and their fans, but baseball is what it is.You don’t have to like South African traditions and culture, the vuvuzelas, or soccer in general, but to say that one hates soccer because of the sound of a traditional horn at a game is completely irrational and ridiculous.

    Yeah. Who are we to stand in the way of a tradition that goes all the way back to the late 90s?

  • JTH | June 16, 2010 at 1:33 pm |

    Matt: The offside rule is almost 100 years old and prevents a team from parking players in front of the opponent’s goal.At the time, most teams played with five forwards (as opposed to 2 or even 1 today) so it might be fair to say it solved a problem that doesn’t exist today.But it doesn’t bother me.If you scrapped the offside rule, you’d probably see a lot of backs just kicking the ball forward as far as they could, hopeful that their forwards were faster than the other team’s defensive backs.More goals, but less beautiful.

    I’m not saying that the offsides rule should be scrapped entirely. I agree that rewarding blatant cherry-picking would be a bad thing. That’s why I suggested that they paint a blue line on the field.

  • rpm | June 16, 2010 at 1:37 pm |

    Bernard: Once again, I am highly entertained and impressed with Comrade Marshall’s historical stirrup oppression imagery.You, RPM, are the boss.

    thanks man. it takes some time, but i enjoy making them. i think i am running out of ideas though.

    horns: if anything they are fun, but i don’t really like ‘em or hate ‘em, they are just kind of there. but it isn’t the least bit annoying because it is such a constant. i don’t see what the big fuss is, i have much larger issues with trying to follow the game on telemundo since i don’t have cable.

  • marc | June 16, 2010 at 1:38 pm |

    JTH:
    Jackyll, actually.
    And that song is brutal.So it’s no surprise that Jim likes it.

    OH YEAH!!!! GO ‘JACKS!!!

  • marc | June 16, 2010 at 1:41 pm |

    Teebz: …but to say that one hates soccer because of the sound of a traditional horn at a game is completely irrational and ridiculous.

    I don’t think anyone’s saying they hate soccer because of the vuvuzela. I think it’s more that it’s ruining the World Cup experience. Soccer’s a tough enough sell to Americans without it.

  • JimWa | June 16, 2010 at 1:42 pm |

    Teebz: Allow me to pull out the soapbox.I cannot believe the constant complaints about the vuvuzelas on here. It’s something that is unique to South Africa, and they are embracing that cultural piece. What’s the big deal?Does everyone complain about the “Ole” song in European soccer? How about in the Bell Centre in Montreal when the Canadiens are playing? Because it happens constantly when the home team is winning.How about the tomahawk chop and the ridiculous signing done by the crowd at Braves games in the 1990s? That made me hate the Braves and their fans, but baseball is what it is.You don’t have to like South African traditions and culture, the vuvuzelas, or soccer in general, but to say that one hates soccer because of the sound of a traditional horn at a game is completely irrational and ridiculous.

    I don’t think it’s about disliking a place, a tradition, or a culture. I don’t recall anyone saying they hated soccer because of the noise.

    I HAVE heard individuals state that the World Cup is unbearable to watch because of the droning. That has nothing to do with the game. It has to do with the ability to comfortably watch the game. Those are two very different things.

    (In full disclosure, I’m saying all this third hand because I haven’t watched a minute of action myself. I used to really like watching soccer, but vuvuzelas have made me hate the sport entireley.)

  • Ry Co 40 | June 16, 2010 at 1:44 pm |

    Bernard: Or, what about chainsaws? They make noise (varying pitches and volume levels), and I’d have to think they’d be pretty intimidating to opposing teams and their fans. Not big chainsaws, mind you – smaller, more compact ones…

    how about weed-wackers? you can make the pitch go up and down all game.

  • marc | June 16, 2010 at 1:44 pm |

    I recall using a vuvuzela back when it was called a “99 cent plastic horn” as a beer bong… and I’m pretty sure my buddies and I weren’t the only ones who’ve had that idea.

  • marc | June 16, 2010 at 1:45 pm |

    Ry Co 40:
    how about weed-wackers? you can make the pitch go up and down all game.

    Or leaf blowers.

  • JimWa | June 16, 2010 at 1:45 pm |

    (I hate when one stupid additional letter makes an otherwise witty, humorous statement look really idiotic)

  • marc | June 16, 2010 at 1:47 pm |

    marc:
    Or leaf blowers.

    Is that what they call groupies for the Toronto NHL team? Ba dum pum *crash*

    Sorry… I usually don’t work blue.

  • JimWa | June 16, 2010 at 1:48 pm |

    marc: Or leaf blowers.

    As long as we’re heading to the Home Depot section of iTunes, might as well invite Eddie Van Halen’s drill, too.

    http://www.youtube.c...

  • JTH | June 16, 2010 at 1:50 pm |

    Vuvuzela Drone — I think they’re playing at the Empty Bottle this weekend.

    Or is that show at the Fireside Bowl? I guess I should check The Reader.

  • Nickbob | June 16, 2010 at 1:50 pm |

    Oh great, first Oklahoma City takes our team and now the Jazz are using our colors. At least you can be an NBA Champion in those colors, Jazz fans.

    Steve McQ, the Seahawks never wore their helmets blank during the regular season, that’s been settled here in the past. Better get some old decals for that wonderous grill.

  • Flip | June 16, 2010 at 2:04 pm |

    While you’re in Nebraska checking out the three-lane bowling alley, there’s a two-laner (though not as snazzy) at an upscale hotel in Perry, Iowa, just northwest of Des Moines. http://www.google.co...

  • Ricko | June 16, 2010 at 2:13 pm |

    Before the WHA Houston Aeros were the Houston Aeros, they were (gonna be) the Dayton Aeros.

    Before that, before they were named, the team’s PR guy and I just about had the owners convinced they should be the “Dayton Drummers”.

    Imagine what “Drum Night” would have been like.

    (Actually we were jerking their chain, but they almost bought into it.)

    —Ricko

  • Thomps | June 16, 2010 at 2:19 pm |

    The current offside rule allows a team’s defense the ability to control the length of the field. If an attacker is camping out or cherry picking, the defense can move up or “Trap” that player in an offside position. Why is it that when we are unfamiliar with a game, we immediately want to change the rules to suit us?

    JTH:
    I’m not saying that the offsides rule should be scrapped entirely.I agree that rewarding blatant cherry-picking would be a bad thing. That’s why I suggested that they paint a blue line on the field.

  • LI Phil | June 16, 2010 at 2:26 pm |

    Thomps:

    The current offside rule allows a team’s defense the ability to control the length of the field. If an attacker is camping out or cherry picking, the defense can move up or “Trap” that player in an offside position.

    and that’s good because???

    im not saying it isn’t…i just fail to understand why they would seemingly discourage a bit of offense in games that (seem to) have very little

    help me to understand

  • JimV19 | June 16, 2010 at 2:29 pm |

    JTH:
    Jackyll, actually.
    And that song is brutal.So it’s no surprise that Jim likes it.

    Not my genre, but that song was listenable.

  • JTH | June 16, 2010 at 2:38 pm |

    Thomps: The current offside rule allows a team’s defense the ability to control the length of the field.If an attacker is camping out or cherry picking, the defense can move up or “Trap” that player in an offside position.Why is it that when we are unfamiliar with a game, we immediately want to change the rules to suit us?

    Oh, I’m unfamiliar with the game, am I?

    See, here’s another reason why there aren’t a lot of soccer converts. If you give a legitimate reason as to why you dislike the sport, soccer snobs dismiss your opinion because if you don’t embrace the rules, well I guess that means you’re ignorant, doesn’t it?

    I also think the fact that the AL has a designated hitter and the NL doesn’t is idiotic. I guess that means I don’t know shit about baseball, right?

  • JimV19 | June 16, 2010 at 2:39 pm |

    JTH:
    I’m not saying that the offsides rule should be scrapped entirely.I agree that rewarding blatant cherry-picking would be a bad thing. That’s why I suggested that they paint a blue line on the field.

    The Subbuteo players out there might like that:
    http://www.freewebs....
    http://home.earthlin...

  • JimV19 | June 16, 2010 at 2:42 pm |

    JTH:
    I’m not saying that the offsides rule should be scrapped entirely.I agree that rewarding blatant cherry-picking would be a bad thing. That’s why I suggested that they paint a blue line on the field.

    Just plain white would do.
    http://www.freewebs....

  • Jeremy | June 16, 2010 at 2:46 pm |

    LI Phil: and that’s good because???im not saying it isn’t…i just fail to understand why they would seemingly discourage a bit of offense in games that (seem to) have very littlehelp me to understand

    I saw this on czabe.com today as an answer to the anti-offside argument:
    “Seriously, no rule in sports encourages more aggressive play (bring those defenders forward–if they can all work together the strikers have to stay with them) and creates more space (if offsides didn’t exist, at least one defender would never leave the top of the penalty area, if you had a two goal lead, it would be even worse, which would completely diminish the likelihood of comebacks, but I digress). Also, it is maybe the only example of a rule in sports that allows a team to leverage risk. What if the NFL got rid of ineligible receivers? Think about it: you could have a center and nine downfield skill players. Of course the other team could just blitz you, but if you got rid of the ball quick enough, who cares? For the defense, you could run nothing but safeties and corners, but at some point you have to create pressure. You’re call.”

  • JTH | June 16, 2010 at 2:46 pm |

    JimV19:
    Just plain white would do.
    http://www.freewebs….

    Yeah, that works, too.

  • JimV19 | June 16, 2010 at 2:47 pm |

    Meanwhile, South Africa and Uruguay are underway. SA in the same yellow over green, while Uruguay is in all-white.

    Favorite uni-matchup of the day was Spain and Switzerland. Good game, too.
    http://storage.canoe...

  • Ricko | June 16, 2010 at 2:47 pm |

    LI Phil:
    and that’s good because???im not saying it isn’t…i just fail to understand why they would seemingly discourage a bit of offense in games that (seem to) have very littlehelp me to understand

    Indeed. From the outside looking in, it seems designed to sort of take breakaway speed out of the game, to equalize the team speed of the participants. Hey, what can we do to keep a fast team from dominating a slower team?

    It’s like doing away with the shot clock in basketball because that four-corner offense was just so damned exciting.

    Or, if you’re ahead by more than a half a lap in the Indy 500 you have to slow down.

    Or saying Secretariat should have been ridden by Alex Karras. Y’know, to keep things a little more even.

    —Ricko

  • James Craven | June 16, 2010 at 2:49 pm |

    unfortunately for italy and switzerland, we still have that pumashit lowercase nob. they improved with their african teams and uruguay, as well as the team numbers and how they look, but in europe, pumashit is still pumashit.

  • JimV19 | June 16, 2010 at 2:50 pm |

    Lemme try that again:
    http://storage.canoe...

  • James Craven | June 16, 2010 at 2:51 pm |

    might wanna change that from pumashit to euroshit as uefa now has several teams in uefa champions league with lower case nobs.

  • Andy11 | June 16, 2010 at 2:53 pm |

    Teebz: Allow me to pull out the soapbox.I cannot believe the constant complaints about the vuvuzelas on here. It’s something that is unique to South Africa, and they are embracing that cultural piece. What’s the big deal?Does everyone complain about the “Ole” song in European soccer? How about in the Bell Centre in Montreal when the Canadiens are playing? Because it happens constantly when the home team is winning.How about the tomahawk chop and the ridiculous signing done by the crowd at Braves games in the 1990s? That made me hate the Braves and their fans, but baseball is what it is.You don’t have to like South African traditions and culture, the vuvuzelas, or soccer in general, but to say that one hates soccer because of the sound of a traditional horn at a game is completely irrational and ridiculous.

    I don’t have a problem with the horn itself, just the way it’s being misused.
    I did some Googling and found this article which explains it well. http://sofiaecho.com...

  • James Craven | June 16, 2010 at 3:18 pm |

    JimV19:” Meanwhile, South Africa and Uruguay are underway.SA in the same yellow over green, while Uruguay is in all-white.Favorite uni-matchup of the day was Spain and Switzerland.Good game, too.”
    http://storage.canoe

    Nice link.

    /sarcasm.

  • Steven | June 16, 2010 at 3:21 pm |

    LI Phil: been catching a few minutes of hondouras/chile and it appears the kazoos are even more muted than yesterday (although that could just be my wishful hearing); but definitely lower than over the weekendand a “goal” was just disallowed, and you can barely just hear the crowd cheer, before being completely drowned out by the horns againit’s like those with the horns aren’t even watching the action on the pitch…

    Some sort of wizardry has definitely taken place overnight. Currently watching South Africa versus Uruguay on the BBC and the vuvuzelas are much more muted. You can actually hear the ball being kicked.

    Now, if only the actual football would improve…

    World Cups are often slow starters but this tournament’s opening stages have, quite frankly, been dire. It won’t have won many converts from casual viewers wondering why this is the world’s sport.

  • JTH | June 16, 2010 at 3:29 pm |

    JimV19: Lemme try that again:
    http://storage.canoe

    Jim,

    Remember this?

  • TJB | June 16, 2010 at 4:36 pm |

    MLB Network- Orioles/Giants. A matchup featuring two teams on the field who sport almost identical colors and, at times, the same cap: black with an orange brim. Don’t see that too often I guess.

  • Christopher | June 16, 2010 at 4:37 pm |

    Jeremy: I saw this on czabe.com today as an answer to the anti-offside argument:“Seriously, no rule in sports encourages more aggressive play (bring those defenders forward–if they can all work together the strikers have to stay with them) and creates more space (if offsides didn’t exist, at least one defender would never leave the top of the penalty area, if you had a two goal lead, it would be even worse, which would completely diminish the likelihood of comebacks, but I digress). Also, it is maybe the only example of a rule in sports that allows a team to leverage risk. What if the NFL got rid of ineligible receivers? Think about it: you could have a center and nine downfield skill players. Of course the other team could just blitz you, but if you got rid of the ball quick enough, who cares? For the defense, you could run nothing but safeties and corners, but at some point you have to create pressure. You’re call.”

    Didn’t a team try this in high school, where I think rules are different?

    Have the QB stand way back, tons of “recievers” gun it straight and as fast as they can, and one- if not many- are guarunteed to be wide open. Get a pass off quickly, and gain a ton of yards.

  • JimV19 | June 16, 2010 at 4:38 pm |

    JTH:
    Jim,Remember this?

    Oh yeah, and I even bookmarked that…

    Spain/Switzerland, take three:
    http://tinyurl.com/2...
    http://tinyurl.com/2...

  • Carl | June 16, 2010 at 4:40 pm |

    interlockingtc: Actually, I prefer the Jazz’s (Jazz’?…Jazzez?…) original music note logo better. I noticed the missing line when I was a kid, but I kinda liked the implication rather than the updated literal depiction.But onto more important things:When I read these words: “…three-lane venue in Ellsworth, Nebraska” I knew the picture would be great.And I’ve never been to Nebraska.Yeah, I think a road trip would be in order.

    Would it be Jazzae?

  • LI Phil | June 16, 2010 at 4:50 pm |

    Christopher:

    Didn’t a team try this in high school, where I think rules are different?

    Have the QB stand way back, tons of “recievers” gun it straight and as fast as they can, and one- if not many- are guarunteed to be wide open. Get a pass off quickly, and gain a ton of yards.

    isn’t that called the “CFL”?

  • LarenR | June 16, 2010 at 5:19 pm |

    Random question for the Uni-verse:
    There’s a web site that gets mentioned in the ticker from time to time. It has cool poster-style graphics of baseball esoterica (e.g. a ven diagram of team names by category, a map of chicago baseball travel then and now, a how-to-remove-the-sticker-from-your-new-cap instructional diagram, a ballpark orientation graphic, etc.). Can anyone remember and/or point me towards the site?

    Thanks in advance!

  • Ben Fortney | June 16, 2010 at 5:25 pm |

    Spain v Switzerland takes the cake for best looking match of the day.

    All goodwill was lost when I stumbled across this hot mess just now.

  • mtjaws | June 16, 2010 at 5:27 pm |

    LarenR: Random question for the Uni-verse:
    There’s a web site that gets mentioned in the ticker from time to time.It has cool poster-style graphics of baseball esoterica (e.g. a ven diagram of team names by category, a map of chicago baseball travel then and now, a how-to-remove-the-sticker-from-your-new-cap instructional diagram, a ballpark orientation graphic, etc.).Can anyone remember and/or point me towards the site?Thanks in advance!

    Flip Flop Fly Ball

    Definitely a fun site.

  • Giancarlo | June 16, 2010 at 5:30 pm |

    Andy11:
    I don’t have a problem with the horn itself, just the way it’s being misused.

    Ha ha. Vuvuzelas don’t annoy people. Annoying people annoy people.

  • Mike Engle | June 16, 2010 at 5:32 pm |

    TJB: MLB Network- Orioles/Giants. A matchup featuring two teams on the field who sport almost identical colors and, at times, the same cap: black with an orange brim. Don’t see that too often I guess.

    Ho-hum.
    Astros vs. Diamondbacks.
    Red team vs. red team.
    Navy team vs. navy team.
    Red and navy vs. navy and red.
    Hell, even NY Mets and the umpires, in very specific iterations.
    (It’s more frequent than it should be, in other words.)

  • Mike Engle | June 16, 2010 at 5:44 pm |

    Teebz: Allow me to pull out the soapbox.I cannot believe the constant complaints about the vuvuzelas on here. It’s something that is unique to South Africa, and they are embracing that cultural piece. What’s the big deal?Does everyone complain about the “Ole” song in European soccer? How about in the Bell Centre in Montreal when the Canadiens are playing? Because it happens constantly when the home team is winning.How about the tomahawk chop and the ridiculous signing done by the crowd at Braves games in the 1990s? That made me hate the Braves and their fans, but baseball is what it is.You don’t have to like South African traditions and culture, the vuvuzelas, or soccer in general, but to say that one hates soccer because of the sound of a traditional horn at a game is completely irrational and ridiculous.

    Teebz, I disagree. All your examples are with distinct home teams, and those would be fine. Hell, if South Africa’s in the game, I guess the vuvuzelas SHOULD be used by the crowd.
    It’s just TOO MUCH. Argentina/Nigeria, Brazil/Portugal, USA/Slovenia…pick your combination, it makes no difference. When a goal is scored, I want to hear the crowd react. The crescendo, the climax…it’s great, just as the rare goal in the once-every-four-years worldwide tournament should be. But instead, we get the damn vuvuzelas NON-STOP, at the expense of, you know, natural human and cultural emotion while being able to sense tension and release among the spectators.
    Now, can somebody tell me why I shouldn’t think this World Cup is less than enjoyable to experience?

  • M.Princip | June 16, 2010 at 5:49 pm |

    Vuvuzela could also be a real slutty Godzilla.

  • LarenR | June 16, 2010 at 6:02 pm |

    mtjaws:
    Flip Flop Fly BallDefinitely a fun site.

    Thanks!

  • TJB | June 16, 2010 at 6:03 pm |

    Mike Engle: Ho-hum.Astros vs. Diamondbacks.Red team vs. red team.Navy team vs. navy team.Red and navy vs. navy and red.Hell, even NY Mets and the umpires, in very specific iterations.(It’s more frequent than it should be, in other words.)

    I was shooting more for the caps I guess. But now that you mention it, you have a point.

  • LarenR | June 16, 2010 at 6:11 pm |

    TJB: MLB Network- Orioles/Giants. A matchup featuring two teams on the field who sport almost identical colors and, at times, the same cap: black with an orange brim. Don’t see that too often I guess.

    Check the video of Monday’s game Both teams wore their alt unis and they called it Halloween in June.

  • LarenR | June 16, 2010 at 6:33 pm |

    Ricko:
    Indeed. From the outside looking in, it seems designed to sort of take breakaway speed out of the game, to equalize the team speed of the participants. Hey, what can we do to keep a fast team from dominating a slower team?…
    —Ricko

    Ricko,
    What does allowing an offensive player to hang out in front of the net have to do with a speed advantage? In fact, the offside rule has just the opposite effect. The striker is only prevented from getting behind the last defender before the ball is played by a teammate. Once the ball has been played, he’s free to take off. So if I am the last defender (as I spent many hours of AYSO, high school, and college) and their striker is hanging out with me, when a ball is played through it’s a footrace to see who can get to the ball (or into a defensive position) first. Speed matters more because we start even.

  • LarenR | June 16, 2010 at 6:34 pm |

    Ricko:
    Indeed. From the outside looking in, it seems designed to sort of take breakaway speed out of the game, to equalize the team speed of the participants. Hey, what can we do to keep a fast team from dominating a slower team?…
    —Ricko

    Ricko,
    What does allowing an offensive player to hang out in front of the net have to do with a speed advantage? In fact, the offside rule has just the opposite effect. The striker is only prevented from getting behind the last defender before the ball is played by a teammate. Once the ball has been played, he’s free to take off. So if I am the last defender (as I spent many hours of AYSO, club seasons, high school, and college) and their striker is hanging out with me, when a ball is played through it’s a footrace to see who can get to the ball (or into a defensive position) first. Speed matters more because we start even.

  • LarenR | June 16, 2010 at 6:35 pm |

    oops. sorry for posting twice…

  • rpm | June 16, 2010 at 6:43 pm |

    teebz~
    you couldn’t have said things better. i agree with you that the horn is a petty complaint made by people looking for something to complain about/a reason not to watch. all these comments have swayed me, i now LOVE the horn and everything about it. i would even venture to say that if you are at the games that distinct tunes would come from each section, but we hear it as white noise on the teevee. oh poor us, there are people having fun and ruining the game, wine cry boo-hoo. nothing could be worse then ole, or that stupid blackhawks goal song which was one thousand times worse then the horn. yeah, i love the horn now.

  • rjcoy06 | June 16, 2010 at 7:17 pm |

    Wasn’t there a post on here a while back about some old cycling posters?? I saw this in the restroom of a pub here in the Detroit area and it reminded me of the post.

    http://farm5.static....

  • Oakville Endive | June 16, 2010 at 7:51 pm |

    The colour scheme that the Utah Jazz appear to be adopting- reminds me of a brief period in the Milwaukee Breweres history – and that uni, was a much under-rated really ugly uniform.

  • LI Phil | June 16, 2010 at 8:02 pm |

    rpm: teebz~you couldn’t have said things better. i agree with you that the horn is a petty complaint made by people looking for something to complain about/a reason not to watch. all these comments have swayed me, i now LOVE the horn and everything about it. i would even venture to say that if you are at the games that distinct tunes would come from each section, but we hear it as white noise on the teevee. oh poor us, there are people having fun and ruining the game, wine cry boo-hoo. nothing could be worse then ole, or that stupid blackhawks goal song which was one thousand times worse then the horn. yeah, i love the horn now.

    sir, with all due respect, i don’t believe the horns have given anyone, particularly myself, a reason not to watch

    they’ve given us a reason not to listen, however

    contrarian tho your position must be, i shall respctfully disagree with your assertion that the sound coming from those glorified beer bongs is less obnoxious than two hours worth of chelsea dagger played at “11″, accompanied by 10,000 thunderstix, woefully out of beat

  • =bg= | June 16, 2010 at 8:16 pm |

    Terry Proctor: The A’s uniforms were made by Stall and Dean for Tim McAuliffe. S&D also made the Bosox unis for years.
    The pants are a joke. As I explained to Paul before, the actual pants had a large belt tunnel so that a conventional belt could be worn. The real belt was then covered by the striped elastic band. The offset snaps covered the belt buckle. How difficult would it have been to get a real old doubleknit A’s uniform and copy it? Probably too difficult for a company like today’s MLB uniform manufacturer (you know who they are). Given their recent track record on the spelling of team and player names do we have the right to assume they are smart enough to figure out how to copy and re-make a “throwback” uniform. More like “throwup” uniforms given the abortions the teams end up with.

    I didn’t think the A’s wore yellow + yellow. Green/white..white/white (my favorite, had yellow numbers) and yellow white. Yes? No?

  • The Hemogoblin | June 16, 2010 at 8:47 pm |

    rpm: teebz~
    you couldn’t have said things better. i agree with you that the horn is a petty complaint made by people looking for something to complain about/a reason not to watch. all these comments have swayed me, i now LOVE the horn and everything about it. i would even venture to say that if you are at the games that distinct tunes would come from each section, but we hear it as white noise on the teevee. oh poor us, there are people having fun and ruining the game, wine cry boo-hoo. nothing could be worse then ole, or that stupid blackhawks goal song which was one thousand times worse then the horn. yeah, i love the horn now.

    I’m pretty much in your boat here (except I use capital letters and I’m not as crazy as you). I really adore the sound of the horns, it gives the matches a character that will not be repeated ever again. And it’s generated a lot of buzz for the tournament.

    Also, I thought it was absolutely fantastic when the vuvuzelas drowned out the North Korean national anthem. It was such a perfect moment.

  • LI Phil | June 16, 2010 at 8:54 pm |

    The Hemogoblin:

    Also, I thought it was absolutely fantastic when the vuvuzelas drowned out the North Korean national anthem. It was such a perfect moment.

    how would you feel if they drowned out the SSB

    /ok, don’t answer that…but what about “mighty oregon”? what if it was OSU fans doing it?

    just saying, funny as that may seem to you, people have gone to war over shit like this…i think that’s pretty disrespectful

  • Teebz | June 16, 2010 at 8:54 pm |

    LI Phil:
    sir, with all due respect, i don’t believe the horns have given anyone, particularly myself, a reason not to watchthey’ve given us a reason not to listen, howevercontrarian tho your position must be, i shall respctfully disagree with your assertion that the sound coming from those glorified beer bongs is less obnoxious than two hours worth of chelsea dagger played at “11″, accompanied by 10,000 thunderstix, woefully out of beat

    Respectfully disagree, and that’s fine. The point remains the same for the majority of people: “I’m not watching the game because I can’t listen to the game because I can’t handle the noise. Please ban the vuvuzela.”

    The continent of Africa has long been considered a third-world continent. They get the opportunity to celebrate the game that most African kids only dream of playing due to factors they cannot control, and we sit here and criticize them for celebrating the biggest event any of those people will see in their generation?

    How petty are we for pissing on their good time?

    Said Mike above, “It’s just TOO MUCH. Argentina/Nigeria, Brazil/Portugal, USA/Slovenia…pick your combination, it makes no difference. When a goal is scored, I want to hear the crowd react.”

    THIS JUST IN: the largely-African crowd doesn’t care about Slovenia (the smallest nation in the World Cup) playing the Americans because neither team affects their team’s standing at this point. So in terms of “crowd reaction”? You’d be getting a lot of silence from the majority of people in the seats. A few hoots and hollers from the supporters of each nation, but you would not “hear the crowd react” like you imagine you will.

    Y’know, it’s kinda like what Kazakhstan and Latvia get when they play at the World Junior Championships anywhere but Canada. If that country’s team isn’t in the game, those two nations don’t have a lot of people cheering for them.

    In case you’ve missed it, that’s precisely what the vuvuzelas fill: silence. Silence thatpeople would be bitching and complaining about if the horns weren’t buzzing.

    If you take the sound away, what do you expect will fill it when 99% of Africans couldn’t care less about Team USA beating Slovenia 1-0?

    The World Cup for Africa is a giant party where all the nations of the world are invited. Vuvuzelas are a part of how Africans party on their home turf.

    I find it extremely ignorant and arrogant that we feel we can dictate how another culture and society celebrates the biggest thing to happen to it since it abolished apartheid.

  • Teebz | June 16, 2010 at 8:56 pm |

    LI Phil:
    how would you feel if they drowned out the SSB/ok, don’t answer that…but what about “mighty oregon”? what if it was OSU fans doing it?just saying, funny as that may seem to you, people have gone to war over shit like this…i think that’s pretty disrespectful

    Yet it’s not disrespectful to tell an entire culture that the way they celebrate the largest event in their time since abolishing apartheid is “annoying”?

  • The Hemogoblin | June 16, 2010 at 9:04 pm |

    LI Phil:
    how would you feel if they drowned out the SSB/ok, don’t answer that…but what about “mighty oregon”? what if it was OSU fans doing it?just saying, funny as that may seem to you, people have gone to war over shit like this…i think that’s pretty disrespectful

    I actually like America, contrary to most people in my age group. I would be mildly offended, but I understand how the world views the US, so I wouldn’t be particularly crushed.

    And I’ve seen Oregon State fans try and drown out Mighty Oregon. And we got those bastards right back when their marching band played their fight song.

    But it does change in North Korea’s circumstance. The game’s not being broadcast there and there are approximately 20 fans in the stands. Given the reclusive nature of that country’s government, it’s the only opportunity many people ever have to express displeasure toward it. It’s not like the United States, whose ubiquity in international culture gives people ample opportunity to voice their opinions toward it. North Korea is only visible when they are sinking ships, smuggling weapons, testing nuclear weapons or competing in athletic events.

    Side note: I started rooting for them the moment the game started. I root for upsets. A lot.

  • LI Phil | June 16, 2010 at 9:05 pm |

    Teebz:

    Yet it’s not disrespectful to tell an entire culture that the way they celebrate the largest event in their time since abolishing apartheid is “annoying”?

    when an entire audience, en masse, is basically playing it wrong, then yes

    i’ve been doing some research into the vuvuzela since it first started affecting my eardrums, and what’s going on inside the football stadia is basically a mass cacaphony of untrained musicians without a clue as to how to play the instrument (which these cheap replicas are NOT)

    if the sound coming from these stadia were truly representative of the capabilities of the instrument, i’m sure many of us would not only be more “respectful,” but embracing

    but it’s not — it’s the equivalent of white noise only much more annoying, and possibly damaging to one’s eardrums

    that’s not disrespect, that’s fact

  • Teebz | June 16, 2010 at 9:07 pm |

    LI Phil:
    when an entire audience, en masse, is basically playing it wrong, then yesi’ve been doing some research into the vuvuzela since it first started affecting my eardrums, and what’s going on inside the football stadia is basically a mass cacaphony of untrained musicians without a clue as to how to play the instrument (which these cheap replicas are NOT)if the sound coming from these stadia were truly representative of the capabilities of the instrument, i’m sure many of us would not only be more “respectful,” but embracingbut it’s not — it’s the equivalent of white noise only much more annoying, and possibly damaging to one’s eardrumsthat’s not disrespect, that’s fact

    Are you telling me your eardrums are in danger by listening to your TV? You already told me you turn the sound off, so who exactly is in danger while sitting at home complaining about horns?

    Again, you’re telling an entire culture that the way they celebrate something is wrong. How is that NOT disrespectful to the people of Africa?

  • LI Phil | June 16, 2010 at 9:34 pm |

    Teebz:

    Are you telling me your eardrums are in danger by listening to your TV? You already told me you turn the sound off, so who exactly is in danger while sitting at home complaining about horns?

    Again, you’re telling an entire culture that the way they celebrate something is wrong. How is that NOT disrespectful to the people of Africa?

    i didn’t say my eardrums, slapnuts

    secondly, what im telling you is, just as i am not speaking for an entire culture, neither are you…im not saying an entire nation, as you so bluntly put words into my mouth, is being disrespected — im saying those who are fortunate enough to have money to go to see games, which i would venture is NOT the average south african, are playing a plastic toy, roughly designed to approximate an actual musical instrument, and whether through their own fault or through the fault of the ‘instrument’ maker, is being played very poorly

    i spoke to someone at work today who is friends with an actual south african, and i asked him to email her about the vuvuzela…it has a range of several (possibly all) the “notes” on the musical scale, not just the shrill b-flat which is apparently all these things are capable of producing

    the original vuvuzela was made of aluminum, capable of producing a wide range of sound; these plastic, mass-produced tubes, are apparently not

    and before you accuse me of single-handedly seeking to reverse apartheid, im not alone…here’s what others have said about the instrument:

    They have been associated with permanent noise-induced hearing loss and cited as a possible safety risk when spectators cannot hear evacuation announcements, and they may spread colds and flu viruses on a greater scale than coughing or shouting.Vuvuzelas have also been blamed for drowning the sound and atmosphere of football games. Commentators have described the sound as “annoying” and “satanic” and compared it with “a stampede of noisy elephants”, “a deafening swarm of locusts”, “a goat on the way to slaughter”, and “a giant hive full of very angry bees”.

    The sound level of the instrument has been measured at 127 decibels contributing to football matches with dangerously high sound pressure levels for unprotected ears.

    if im being disrespectful, others are surely worse, yet you save your vitriol for me

    i find it interesting you have such a spirited defense of the name “fighting sioux” or the blackhawks logo, but yet, because i choose to make a plea for the cacaphonic din of the “vuvuzela” to be lowered, somehow i’m being disrespectful to an entire nation

    how would you feel if the canadian national anthem were droned out by these things at the world cup? oh, that’s right…they don’t have a team there

  • Ricko | June 16, 2010 at 9:44 pm |

    Teebz: Are you telling me your eardrums are in danger by listening to your TV? You already told me you turn the sound off, so who exactly is in danger while sitting at home complaining about horns?Again, you’re telling an entire culture that the way they celebrate something is wrong. How is that NOT disrespectful to the people of Africa?

    Well, but as noted earlier, the big red Snoopy bat has been around longer than blowing vuvuzellas at a soccer match.

    So I don’t know as it exactly qualiifes yet as being “part of their culture” as the phrase is commonly used. If is is, then Homer Hankies, Terrible Towels, Thundersticks and Rally Monkeys are intrinsic to the American Experience and a part of our cultural heritage that’s beyond criticism.

    By comparison (of time in the society), freeedom to Hula Hoop should be protected by the Bill of Rights by now.

    I mean, it isn’t like disrespecting the tradition of taking off your shoes in a Japanese home or something.

    —Ricko

  • Teebz | June 16, 2010 at 9:52 pm |

    LI Phil:
    how would you feel if the canadian national anthem were droned out by these things at the world cup? oh, that’s right…they don’t have a team there

    Would it bother me? Absolutely not. I’ve heard enough Canadian anthems drowned out by people cheering this year at the Olympics where we set the record for the most number of medals by a host nation. But we’ll save that for another day.

    If you only want certified musicians who can play the vuvuzela at the games, then all you have do is market the World Cup accordingly.

    If you want people who simply are there to celebrate the game and enjoy the spectacle, then stop complaining. Because fans are who they are.

    These people are going to see teams that have no importance to them. They may know one or two players from each team, but they are there at the games. The majority of these people have invited you, the spectator, into their home to celebrate WITH them.

    The United Center in Game Five was rocking at 119dB in Game Five when Dustin Byfuglien scored into the open net, and that’s equivalent to the sound a shotgun makes. It’s only slightly louder than a rock concert, a motorcycle, or a train. Yet no one in North America has a problem with a Blackhawks goal, a rock concert, a motorcycle, or a train, right?

    The vuvuzela can hit 127dB, but, thanks to the open-air stadium, rarely do all 127dB hit an “unprotected ear”. The pain threshold for the ear? 125dB. So unless you’re seated beside someone who has lungs that can inflate a hot-air balloon, you have little to nothing to worry about aside from some slight ringing.

    If you remove the vuvuzelas, you’re left with silence. The people are there to party regardless of who is playing on the pitch. And they aren’t there to pander to television audiences, networks, commentators, or journalists.

    Since FIFA ruled that the vuvuzela is allowed at World Cup games, it’s time to put this to rest and enjoy the beautiful game.

  • Ricko | June 16, 2010 at 9:53 pm |

    LarenR: Ricko,What does allowing an offensive player to hang out in front of the net have to do with a speed advantage? In fact, the offside rule has just the opposite effect. The striker is only prevented from getting behind the last defender before the ball is played by a teammate. Once the ball has been played, he’s free to take off. So if I am the last defender (as I spent many hours of AYSO, club seasons, high school, and college) and their striker is hanging out with me, when a ball is played through it’s a footrace to see who can get to the ball (or into a defensive position) first. Speed matters more because we start even.

    Was just trying to show how bewildering it is to many who, as I mentioned, think it contribues to soccer lacking the Long Bomb, Home Run, Fast Break…the kind of things many fans, particularly Americans, are accustomed to seeing and getting excited about.

    Just makes ‘me scratch their heads is all. And, as I did say, it was from the perspective of “from the outside looking in” (meaning the casual observer).

    —Ricko

  • Teebz | June 16, 2010 at 9:58 pm |

    Ricko:
    Well, but as noted earlier, the big red Snoopy bat has been around longer than blowing vuvuzellas at a soccer match.So I don’t know as it exactly qualiifes yet as being “part of their culture” as the phrase is commonly used. If is is, then Homer Hankies, Terrible Towels, Thundersticks and Rally Monkeys are intrinsic to the American Experience and a part of our cultural heritage that’s beyond criticism.By comparison (of time in the society), freeedom to Hula Hoop should be protected by the Bill of Rights by now.I mean, it isn’t like disrespecting the tradition of taking off your shoes in a Japanese home or something.—Ricko

    From the mouth of the President of FIFA Sepp Blatter: “I have always said that Africa has a different rhythm, a different sound. I don’t see banning the music traditions of fans in their own country. Would you want to see a ban on the fan traditions in your country?”

    I’m almost certain I know the answer to his question, Rick. And so do you.

  • JTH | June 16, 2010 at 10:08 pm |

    Ricko:
    Was just trying to show how bewildering it is to many who, as I mentioned, think it contribues to soccer lacking the Long Bomb, Home Run, Fast Break…the kind of things many fans, particularly Americans, are accustomed to seeing and getting excited about.Just makes ‘me scratch their heads is all. And, as I did say, it was from the perspective of “from the outside looking in” (meaning the casual observer).—Ricko

    And to reiterate my original comment, it is possible to have an offsides rule and keep the “long bomb” as an option.

  • LI Phil | June 16, 2010 at 10:09 pm |

    Teebz: P>These people are going to see teams that have no importance to them.

    “these people”?

    wow

    the stanley cup finals were viewed by what, a couple million people? and that noise lasted for, i’ll be generous, a minute?

    it wasn’t 90 minutes of constant and unceasing b flat notes

    again, i don’t know why your vitriol singles me out, when there are MANY, many more who agree with me about these instruments

    what the south africans choose to do in their home country is really not for me to debate nor have i indicted an entire nation — but since i find the noise to be excessive, and again, im not alone in this — obviously ESPN has done something with their boom mics because the sound has been NOTICABLY lower the past two days…

    should they be banned? i don’t know, as long as they keep the audio like it is, it doesn’t bother me…the first few days (did you even watch? or are you just saying this — be honest…did you watch friday, saturday or sunday?) were unbearable

    and again, im not asking for “certified” musicians to be seated inside the stadia, but it might help if those who are are either able to produce a sound that in intended OR that the maker of said instrument make in such a way that more than one note is played

    i can guarantee you the USC drum corps sounds a lot better than 50 drunk guys banging drums at a football game

    and i don’t recall the canadian national anthem being drowned out at the olympics…possibly (and thankfully) because NBC chose not to ever show that, but i’d say that’s disrespectful as well

    honk the vuvuzelas all you want during the matches, especially if the sound is equalized so i can actually hear the whistles and the announcers…but to drown out another team’s national anthem?

    sorry, i find that disrespectful

    i am, quite frankly, surprised you don’t

  • Ricko | June 16, 2010 at 10:11 pm |

    Whew, America’s treasured cultural tradition of mirrored Disco balls won’t be infringed upon. Good.

    I guess if they’d been doing it for a half century or so…but it kinda comes off like a fan fad that won’t go away masquerading as a longstanding culture experience.

    Mainly, though, the networks seem to have figured out how to mix the audio in a manner that takes the edge off it a bit. So there’s maybe been some commmon ground established where everyone’s marginally happy.

    Feel bad for the World Cup, though, if the summary of the 2010 go-round begins with “everyone seemed marginally happy”.

    —Ricko

  • Nick | June 16, 2010 at 10:30 pm |

    dennis: I had forgot all about Dandy the Yankee mascot. It reminded me about Mettle, the Mets mascot-mule. He used to live in the right field bullpen at Shea sometime in the late 70’s.

    The Dandy mascot on this link immediately reminded me of a Brooklyn dodgers “Bum”. That was the very first thing that I was reminded of when I saw the scruffy face.

  • Nick | June 16, 2010 at 10:34 pm |

    JimV19: Meanwhile, South Africa and Uruguay are underway. SA in the same yellow over green, while Uruguay is in all-white.Favorite uni-matchup of the day was Spain and Switzerland. Good game, too.http://storage.canoe

    I really liked Portugal’s uniform worn yesterday. The White top with the Red/Green vertical striping, with the small front numerals were classy, unique, and basic dark shorts were a great use of those colors.

    At this point that uni is as good as any, IMO. and

  • JTH | June 16, 2010 at 10:37 pm |

    Boys. Please kiss and make up.

    Now I think we can all agree that if the South African crowds would just learn to play this (don’t worry, it isn’t “Chelsea Dagger”) on their vuvuzelas, the World Cup would be a smashing success on every possible level.

  • Nick | June 16, 2010 at 10:43 pm |

    LI Phil: how would you feel if they drowned out the SSB/ok, don’t answer that…but what about “mighty oregon”? what if it was OSU fans doing it?just saying, funny as that may seem to you, people have gone to war over shit like this…i think that’s pretty disrespectful

    AGREED. Events like this we leave that hatin’ at the gate of the stadium. Now, if our rival or disliked team then goes on to get skunked, you can celebrate a bit more or louder. I don’t care who it is, you let everyone have their national anthem. That is sportsmanship, and if not, why have it at all.

    The horns are a bit much. Two solid hours of DRONEING AGGRAVATION! If we can put a man on the Moon, can’t we at least broadcast a game withut that crap. Going back to the Federations Cup or whatever it was in 2008, I thought that the constant droneing of aggravation noise were caused by the friggin’ Goodyear Blimp cruising too low over the stadiums to get their 20 second overhead shot. No such luck.

  • Teebz | June 16, 2010 at 10:52 pm |

    LI Phil:
    sorry, i find that disrespectfuli am, quite frankly, surprised you don’t

    There’s no vitriol towards you… despite you thinking there is. All I’m doing is saying “leave it alone”. Why is this so difficult?

    “These people” are the people who are attending the games in amongst the vuvuzelas. Most of them are African-born people, but some are not. However, all of those people are those that are attending the games. If you want to twist that any other way, be my guest.

    It would be different if it were the South Africans who wanted the noise killed off. But this has been going on for some time.

    Let’s head back to the 2009 Confederations Cup held in South Africa. It was here that the vuvuzela made its dramatic debut as the buzz grew match by match. A number of people not from South Africa complained about the noise, and asked for them to be banned at the upcoming 2010 World Cup. FIFA President Sepp Blatter had this retort: “We should not try to europeanise an African World Cup”.

    Guess what, global community! The vuvuzela is a part of African culture and football!

    Michelle Sibanda (@pinkminx36 on Twitter) stated, “The vuvuzela is part of our country’s heritage… so NO we wont stop blowing it and you can complain till the cows come home!!!”

    Don’t forget that we’re talking about a country in South Africa that has been working on a new history for 16 years. It was in 1989 that apartheid was defeated, and cultures began to discover one another for the first time.

    Just because we hold traditions as a time-honoured practice, the South Africans began rewriting their history 16 years ago. The vuvuzela has been a part of South African heritage for 15 years now, so I’d say that’s a pretty decent tradition for them.

    All in all, the viewership for the World Cup is a lot like the rest of the world: we’re discovering the real Africa for the first time. You may not like everything you see and hear, but complaining about it does nothing good for anyone when there are some excellent matches being played in front of you. I point to Germany-Australia as the best example of the games already played.

  • StLMarty | June 16, 2010 at 11:09 pm |

    JTH: Boys. Please kiss and make up.Now I think we can all agree that if the South African crowds would just learn to play this (don’t worry, it isn’t “Chelsea Dagger”) on their vuvuzelas, the World Cup would be a smashing success on every possible level.

    Much ado about nothing.
    And I prefer this guy.
    http://www.youtube.c...

  • JimV19 | June 16, 2010 at 11:10 pm |

    Nick:
    I really liked Portugal’s uniform worn yesterday.The White top with the Red/Green vertical striping, with the small front numerals were classy, unique, and basic dark shorts were a great use of those colors.
    At this point that uni is as good as any, IMO.

    That game is in the running for this week’s Top 5 list. Very nice unis, and with the orange Ivory Coast unis it made for a colorful matchup.

  • JimV19 | June 16, 2010 at 11:15 pm |

    As I said almost 90 comments ago, we’re discussing the pros and cons of plastic horns, while women in orange minidresses have created a World Cup controversy:
    http://g.sports.yaho...

    Priorities, gentlemen, priorities…

  • HowieGreen | June 16, 2010 at 11:26 pm |

    RE: Dandy,

    I’ve sworn for years that the Yankees once had a mascot. Finally, confirmation that he wasn’t a figment of my imagination. I clearly remember reading about him in some kids sports magazine, and seeing him at the stadium at least once. I had searched the interwebs recently and come up empty. I remembered him looking a bit more human, sort of an irascible old codger with a spinning mustache, but I would have been pretty young at the time.

  • LI Phil | June 16, 2010 at 11:28 pm |

    Teebz:

    Just because we hold traditions as a time-honoured practice, the South Africans began rewriting their history 16 years ago. The vuvuzela has been a part of South African heritage for 15 years now, so I’d say that’s a pretty decent tradition for them.

    not once have i ever pointed to the “short-livednessD of the “tradition” nor have i called it a “fad” or any other such term…perhaps your argument is with ricko, but not me

    it’s not for me to decide what is a “time honored tradition” — i don’t care if they started it 20 years ago, 2 years ago, or 200 years ago

    am i not allowed to say i find it annoying and it makes it quite difficult (at least in the first few days) to watch matches?

    i really don’t give a shit if it IS tradition — that’s not my argument, yet you seem intent on connecting others’ arguments with mine

    if this is the “face” the nation of south africa wants to show the world, that’s fine, and that’s they’re prerogative — it doesn’t mean i have to like this one particular aspect — i have enjoyed the games thus far, with that one exception — unfortunately, it is not a small annoyance

    you have no right to tell me “deal with it” — i don’t have to watch the games; i WANT to watch the games, but if doing so becomes a chore, then i will exercise my prerogative and NOT watch

    i really doubt the south africans care whether or not i watch…but the advertisers do

    if there were some “tradition” of having a blinding white light set off at the beginning of hockey games, i’d probably avoid that too — but that would only be for a short period of time

    this noise, and you have yet to dispute that it is indeed just noise, is constant, ever-present, and generally not conducive to the enjoyment of a sporting event — one which i’ve enjoyed in the past and, like the olympics, one which i very much look forward to because it features the best of the best, it is special, and it is somewhat rare

    if your sole argument is “it’s a south african thing, you wouldn’t understand, deal with it” then this is not truly an international event…when other nations come to the united states (and they do for many sporting events i have attended recently, such as the us open (golf) and the us open (tennis) and many others), there are signs in either universal (character) language or in several foreign tongues; our guests are, to the best of our abilities, made to feel welcome — im sure some are and some arent

    im not getting the impression that this is necessarily the case in the soccer stadia…i have a feeling this is turning off a LOT of viewers and potential viewers

    should the south africans “kow tow” to the rest of the world’s “expectations”? no…but that does NOT mean the rest of the world will accept or enjoy this; telling the rest of us “deal with it” is fine, but it’s going to turn a LOT of the rest of the world off

    other than perhaps the quality of play, which i understand to be subpar, i’ve really enjoyed watching the games so far — WITH THE SOLE EXCEPTION of the vuvuzela chorus

    but i guess im not allowed to express my displeasure … either i “deal with it” or shut up…”my way or the highway” is the impression you’re giving me

    if those are my options, i guess it’s the highway

    OR

    the broadcasters could, as they seem to have done, made the program more pleasing to the ears of those who aren’t so fond of 90 straight minutes of high decibel b flat droning

  • Bill | June 16, 2010 at 11:34 pm |

    Christopher:
    Didn’t a team try this in high school, where I think rules are different?Have the QB stand way back, tons of “recievers” gun it straight and as fast as they can, and one- if not many- are guarunteed to be wide open.Get a pass off quickly, and gain a ton of yards.

    Christopher, I think you are referring to the A-11:

    http://www.humphinte...

  • The Hemogoblin | June 17, 2010 at 12:04 am |

    Phil, I like your “or” selection.

  • rpm | June 17, 2010 at 12:33 am |

    LI Phil:
    sir, with all due respect, i don’t believe the horns have given anyone, particularly myself, a reason not to watchthey’ve given us a reason not to listen, howevercontrarian tho your position must be, i shall respctfully disagree with your assertion that the sound coming from those glorified beer bongs is less obnoxious than two hours worth of chelsea dagger played at “11″, accompanied by 10,000 thunderstix, woefully out of beat

    sorry, i was working…i generalized sure,not everybody who does not like them is trying to be a jerk, but i am telling you here now and forever the horns are a bazillion times better then that song!

    thank you for not linking the song james. oh, and by my way, i should have mentioned i ride my bike to the field, that was tricky balancing all that, a twelve pack and my gear:)

  • The Hemogoblin | June 17, 2010 at 12:45 am |

    RPM, backpacks carry 12-packs quite efficiently.

  • Teebz | June 17, 2010 at 12:50 am |

    LI Phil:
    either i “deal with it” or shut up…”my way or the highway” is the impression you’re giving me

    And I’m the one being vitriolic?

    You know what?

    Complain away. Be my guest. Lead the march, and burn down the FIFA offices. They should know that your TV experience and the advertisers’ bottom lines are so much more important than the people who actually attend the games and live in South Africa. Because, after all, you’re right. It’s about the rest of the world, and not about South Africa. Why should it be about the host nation and their cultures and traditions?

    After all, you’ve made comments such as “this incessant droning of those kazoos is ruining the whole world cup experience for me” and “if they STFUed for a part of the time” on a daily basis, so it’s not like this revelation about the vuvuzelas is new. I get it – you don’t like the sound. So what’s your solution? Because your argument is the same as everyone else’s argument: shut those effing things up.

    The people are there to party, Phil. They are not there to cheer for Honduras or Chile or Italy as much as they are there to have a good time. The World Cup is a celebration, and that’s precisely what they are doing.

    Sports in South Africa = bring your vuvuzela. It’s been that way since the 1995 Rugby World Cup. And it will continue past World Cup 2010.

    As for me, I’ll be back after the World Cup ends. I don’t need to be told to go eff myself. See you on July 12.

  • traxel | June 17, 2010 at 12:58 am |

    The Mets July 4 giveaway? http://www.palpromsa...

  • Mike Engle | June 17, 2010 at 1:13 am |

    traxel: The Mets July 4 giveaway?http://www.palpromsa

    Just the black one, of course. :-/

  • LI Phil | June 17, 2010 at 1:21 am |

    Teebz:

    The people are there to party, Phil. They are not there to cheer for Honduras or Chile or Italy as much as they are there to have a good time. The World Cup is a celebration, and that’s precisely what they are doing.

    and the united nations is in NYC, but you know what, the usa rules don’t apply to the diplomats visiting — why should they? as much as it pisses me off to see a double parked car with diplomat plates having 25 parking tickets i know will never be paid, that’s part of what being a host is — accommodating others

    this may be south africa’s party, but the world is invited…i can’t imagine the world is necessarily enjoying the droning

    if i were the only one complaining, you’d be justified in singling me out — but apparently im not alone

    i’d like to think FIFA didn’t make a mistake in choosing south africa, but you know what? i bet this whole thing SERIOUSLY jeopardizes their EVER getting another event of this magnitude

    i hope im wrong, and i dont want to think the actions of a few thousand speak for the entire nation

    but that’s the impression im getting…and apparently im not alone

    part of being a good host nation involves making all feel welcome…when the PLAYERS, who, if we really want to come down to brass tacks, start complaining about the noise, then i think it’s something that needs to be taken seriously, and i think that’s something that does need to be addressed

    if the pitches were really shitty, and players were getting hurt, you’d be the first one complaining and id be right behind you, but when it comes to something like this, which MAY be actually affecting play (although i think the french enjoy whine with their cheese regardless of the vuvu’s)…when you can’t hear the whistles, the announcers and the players can’t even hear their coaches, it’s gone from “good fun” to a major distraction

    and i’ll admit the vuvu’s are just a good old fun party time the rest of us should deal with when you admit the “fighting sioux” and the blackhawks logo are offensive to native americans (or those on the north american continent)

  • The Hemogoblin | June 17, 2010 at 1:50 am |

    traxel: Complain away. Be my guest. Lead the march, and burn down the FIFA offices. They should know that your TV experience and the advertisers’ bottom lines are so much more important than the people who actually attend the games and live in South Africa. Because, after all, you’re right. It’s about the rest of the world, and not about South Africa. Why should it be about the host nation and their cultures and traditions?

    After all, you’ve made comments such as “this incessant droning of those kazoos is ruining the whole world cup experience for me” and “if they STFUed for a part of the time” on a daily basis, so it’s not like this revelation about the vuvuzelas is new. I get it – you don’t like the sound. So what’s your solution? Because your argument is the same as everyone else’s argument: shut those effing things up.

    Nothing says America like incessant loud annoying noises. (Search for: Most forms of popular music from 1975-present.)

  • The Hemogoblin | June 17, 2010 at 1:53 am |

    Wow, quote fail. I figured out how that happened:

    When you click the quote button, you link to the comment you are trying to quote and give that person credit for the post; if you have text highlighted elsewhere in the comment section, you instead get that dragged into the quote box, giving the misquote.

    Now that I have that figured out:

    traxel: The Mets July 4 giveaway?http://www.palpromsa

    Nothing says America like incessant loud annoying noises. (Search for: Most forms of popular music from 1975-present.)

  • JTH | June 17, 2010 at 7:37 am |

    rpm:
    sorry, i was working…i generalized sure,not everybody who does not like them is trying to be a jerk, but i am telling you here now and forever the horns are a bazillion times better then that song!thank you for not linking the song james. oh, and by my way, i should have mentioned i ride my bike to the field, that was tricky balancing all that, a twelve pack and my gear:)

    I know you probably won’t read this, but…

    90 straight minutes of buzzing is better than maybe 10 minutes of dah-dah-duh-dah-dah-duh-dah-dah-dah-dah-dah-dah-duhs? (And that’s 10 minute if the Hawks have a major scoring barrage.)

    And you were aware that I was bringing all that shit to you last night, right? It’s not as though I popped in unexpectedly.

  • Ricko | June 17, 2010 at 12:09 pm |

    JTH: I know you probably won’t read this, but…90 straight minutes of buzzing is better than maybe 10 minutes of dah-dah-duh-dah-dah-duh-dah-dah-dah-dah-dah-dah-duhs? (And that’s 10 minute if the Hawks have a major scoring barrage.)And you were aware that I was bringing all that shit to you last night, right? It’s not as though I popped in unexpectedly.

    Honestly, I have no problem with the vuvuzelas now that the networks have figured out how to deal with them in their audio mix.

    Can’t speak to how it is in the stadium, though. Haven’t been there, haven’t done that.

    I do find it interesting that in the post-1995 world apparently one of acceptable ways to define your culture is by how you choose to behave at a sporting event.

    And people wonder why some think we’ve elevated sports and spectatorism-as-psuedo-participation to too lofty a position in life.

    Several times while we were dealing with Native American gaming, Tribes would insist the Tribal logo be incorporated into the logo for the casino they were opening. Every time we asked the same question, “Do you want your culture symbolized by a casino, or is a casino just a business your Tribe is in? If you built furniture, would the symbol of your Tribe be a Barcalounger?” And every time they did a 180, saying we should NOT but the Tribal logo into the casino logo.

    Sometimes people need to ask, “What’s truly cultural, what represents us as a society, and what isn’t?”

    —Ricko