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Take Me Out To The Ball Park

Ebbets Field-Stengel-header

By Phil Hecken

I’ve always been fascinated by the old baseball parks, especially the ones that were long gone before I was born. So many quirks, so much history — the ghosts of baseball past, if you will. Unlike today’s retro parks (which were, of course, inspired by the cathedrals of the past) and their immediate predecessors — the cavernous concrete multipurpose donuts and municipal yards that were built either on the cheap or without character (oftentimes both), ballparks of yesteryear have always held a special place in my heart. Sure, they’re not uniforms, but after uniforms, they’re my one of my true loves.

I had often wanted to write a piece on some of the old parks, and today I’ll give a quick look at some of my favorites. I have to say, I was inspired to write about these a long time ago, and after some rather intense discussions with some of my Deep Freeze comrades last weekend, where I found my love of these parks was far from unique, I decided to think about it. Then, this past Tuesday, Paul posted a ticker item featuring one of those newfangled computer baseball games in which one can “select” an old school stadium (to be precise the particular game featured seven of my favorites old buildings: The Polo Grounds, Crosley Field, Forbes Field, Griffith Stadium, Shibe Park and Sportsman’s Park) in which one could play a game. That cinched it — and this post was born.

There are far too many stadia (although to be fair, most of them weren’t stadiums at all, but much smaller, more intimate places), most of which featured some amazingly unique architecture or other characteristics which can’t be replicated today, to actually cover in one post (or even 100). So, I’ll just scratch the surface and provide you with a few links so you can waste spend the rest of the day just enjoying the simpler times, before night games, commercial breaks and t-shirt shooting cannon. Back when “lets play two” was a weekly occurrence and you could spend a day at the park without taking out a loan. So without further ado, here’s a look at five of my favorite old-tyme ballparks:

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Ebbets Field: No list would be complete without Brooklyn’s Ebbets Field. Opened in 1913, this wasn’t the first park in which the Dodgers played, but it’s the most famous (sure, Dodger Stadium has it’s finer points, and it has hosted more Dodgers games than Ebbets Field). It was one of baseball’s first cathedrals, and was no doubt most famous for the rotunda. The New York Baseball club that “replaced” Brooklyn (and the Giants) upon their westward move attempted to replicate that rotunda when they christened their new ballpark last season (and didn’t do too bad a job).

But Ebbets had many other glorious features as well: Like many parks of yesteryear, it was shoehorned into the neighborhood, and featured a very short rightfield porch, famously adorned with ads, including the iconic Abe Stark (“Hit Sign Win Suit”) sign, and an angled wall with a high wire fence. The big “Schaefer Beer” sign would tell those keeping score whether a play was a “HIT” (the “H” in Schaefer would light) or an “ERROR” (the “E” would light up). Awesome.

There is so much more to Ebbets Field, and you can read more here, here, here and here.

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Shibe Park: A Philadelphia classic, Shibe Park (later known as “Connie Mack Stadium”) was also an architectural splendor to behold. It featured a magnificent French Renaissance facade, and was the first ballpark (constructed in 1909) built entirely of concrete and steel. Featuring gargantuan centerfield dimensions (over 500 feet from home plate in the early years), it too was built to fit inside a city grid.

Shibe was home to both the Athletics and the Phillies, with the A’s being the original tenant in 1909. By 1938, the Phillies had moved in (and would remain there after the A’s departed for Kansas City), and would stay until the Vet was built.

While devoid of multiple quirks like other ballparks of it’s time, Shibe did have one distinguishing feature: Connie Mack, owner of the A’s, was pissed that those in the neighboring homes could see games for free over the low fence, so he constructed a “spite” fence in right field. The new fence effectively cut down on the “squatters” but didn’t endear him to the neighborhood.

Lots more to read about Shibe, and that can be found here, here, here, here, and here.

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Griffith Stadium: Look at the size of that left field! That’s not an illusion, when Griffith Stadium was constructed, it was a whopping 407 feet down the left field line, and it actually increased to 424 feet in 1921! Another stadium whose dimensions were reflected by it’s relation to the neighborhood, Griffith Stadium also had an extremely unique quirk: the centerfield wall jutted inward at almost a right angle, detouring around a tree and five houses.

The Nationals/Senators called Griffith Stadium home (as did the Negro League Grays and the Redskins), and it was the site of perhaps the longest home run in baseball history. The Mick hit one that was “supposedly measured” at 565 feet (baseball’s first “tape measure” shot, although the gentleman who later claimed to have used an actual tape measure later claimed to have merely guestimated the distance).

Griffith Stadium also featured a high rightfield fence with a giant Natty Boh bottle atop it. The bottle was about fifty feet high.

So much more information on Griffith Stadium can be found here, here, here, here and here.

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Polo Grounds: Another New York icon, the Polo Grounds always intrigued me because of it’s horseshoe shape. It was actually the fourth ballpark built on that spot, and was home to the Giants, the Yankees (for a few years until they’d build a somewhat famous stadium across the river), and after Horace Stoneham paired up with Walter O’Malley to move the Giants (with the Dodgers) west, the New York Metropolitans, who played there for two years. Now, the Polo Grounds wasn’t always an enclosed stadium, but the builders quickly went from this to the fully enclosed stadium shortly after construction. Like most parks of it’s age, centerfield was very deep, and the monument was in play (and is in memory of Captain Edward Leslie Grant, who was mortally wounded in France during World War I).

The Polo Grounds was full of quirks, including the monument and the giant scoreboard and cutout in centerfield between the bleachers (through which players and fans both exited the stadium). One of the oddest features occurred due to the shape of the field, which not only had the deep outfield, but two incredibly short left field and right field walls. While short porches aren’t uncommon in older parks, unlike other fields, they couldn’t erect high fences to keep those short shots in play, as they would block the fans’ views. As a result, pop flies right down either baseline would become home runs. And although the right field fence was closer to home plate than the left, left field featured a somewhat unique overhang, which shortened the distance considerably.

One of the most famous catches in history occurred here, when the Say Hey Kid robbed Vic Wertz in the 1954 World Series. And of course, only years earlier, the short left field porch would be home of perhaps the most famous home run in the world, with Bobby Thompson’s shot heard round the world. This occurred on October 3, 1951, a season in which the Giants would make a miraculous September charge, winning stealing the pennant from the crosstown Dodgers.

Much more information on the Polo Grounds can be found here, here, here, here and here.

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Sportsman’s Park: This grand old park, opened in 1902 and used until 1966, was also referred to as Busch Stadium in later years. Until baseball began moving westward in the 1950’s, Sportsman’s Park had the distinction of being the furthest west park in baseball. While not particularly large or small in comparison to other old parks, it did have a fairly deep center and short right field porch. Originally home to the Browns (when it first opened), the more famous tenants (and later owners) were the St. Louis Cardinals.

While not particularly ‘quirky,’ Sportsman’s Park did have two very cool features: whenever a Cardinal hit a homerun, the Budweiser Eagle on top of the leftfield fence would flap it’s wings. Before the eagle sat atop the fence, like several ballparks, the flagpole was in fair territory.

Of course, when your owner is the inimitable Bill Veeck, there will be some interesting players on the team: Pete Gray, the one-armed major leaguer and Eddie Gaedel, baseball’s shortest player, both played at Sportsman’s Park (note the original dimensions and orientation of the field superimposed on a later shot). Perhaps my favorite quirk of the Stadium occurred during the 1946 World Series, when the Cards dropped the Red Sox and the field featured a crazy ring around the mound. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen this feature before or since in any park.

Additional information on Sportsman’s Park can be found here, here, here and here.

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That’s going to do it for this installment of the old ballparks. If you guys enjoyed it, I’ll do another set in the future. So what say you, do you love the old parks as much as I do? Have any others you consider your favorites? Got any stories of seeing games in any of these? Although, unless you’re considerably older than I, *coughrickocough* I’m guessing most of these were gone before you were born. Either way, whaddya say?

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benchies header“Be Like Mike.” Such a great marketing phrase back then. Not so much now. Here’s Rick:

Everything is a learning experience, right? I mean, that’s what they tell us. So why should we doubt that philosophy because something goes a little amiss? We just file it away and move on. Again. Grumbling.

Enjoy your Saturday Benchies.

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scoreboardGuess The Game From The Scoreboard: Back today for a little college action. This one may give you some trouble, but you never know. Jake was there, and that’s probably even more of a hint than you need. Guess The Game From The Scoreboard. Date, location and final score, please, and be sure to link to your answer. And, as always, if you enjoy the game, please send me some new scoreboards! Drop me a line. Thanks!

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uni tweaks headerOur next round of Uniform Tweaks, Concepts and Revisions is upon us again. We’ll be examining all sports now. So, if you have a tweak, change or concept for any sport, send them my way.

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Our first contestant is UW stalwart Mike Engle, who took crayon to paper to create this interesting Habs mashup:

As we all know (and especially me, as a McGill student), the Montreal Canadiens have been celebrating their old age for two years, while giving five throwback jerseys cameos. Though I am not advocating that the Habs even THINK about adopting this third jersey (I’m not even sure Jim Vilk would wear this thing), I am willing to share the result of my “blue duck syndrome.” I wanted to see what would happen if I took the Habs’ throwbacks, threw them all into a blender, and made one “encyclopedic” alternate top. Turns out, since the Habs have mostly exclusively been bleu, blanc et rouge, I didn’t need special helmets, breezers, or socks. I’d prefer natural leather brown gloves with this jersey, but I’d settle for standard red and blue gloves. Either way, the other team will definitely be wearing white.

Don’t mind the pencil guidelines or the lighter-than-supposed-to-be scanned color pencil. The colors are red, royal, white, and forest green. The NOB and number font are the same as currently used, so any differences there are coincidental as well. The thin white torso stripe and the blue upper is from the 1909 blue jersey; the sleeves are from the barber pole. The green accents are, of course, a recessive gene from the 1910 jerseys. I intentionally dialed back the green since it’s obviously a forgettable 1% of the uniform history. The green is only an accent when needed for extra contrast. The sleeve CA patch is directly from the 1912 jersey. But since I hate sleeve numbers on one sleeve or less, and didn’t want to interrupt the barber pole stripes more, I moved the TV numbers to the shoulders. Hardly the usual, but if Team Canada can do it, so can I. I invented the MCMIX patch for the right wrist as a “tattoo” to bookend the Reebok vector–I’d rather both be hidden than both seen on the ice, but the fans can certainly enjoy the year patch. (That’s Roman numeral for 1909, their first year, and I LOVE Roman numerals.) I put a CH logo front and center because it’s the famous logo, of course; I included a lace-up collar because they are my favorite; finally, the “normal” look below the torso stripe is to tie in with the rest of the non-throwback uniform. And oh by the way, why Ken Dryden for the model? My mom is a Cornell alumna, so I have to love Dryden.

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Next up is James Hayden, who has some new looks for the Washington, D.C. football club:

Hi,

Since I was designing new unis for the “Dead-skins” anyway, I decided to create a full set using my questionable graphic design talents and forward my results to you.

My basic concept is based on the NFL 75th Season throwbacks from 1994 — I always liked the jerseys they wore and even spent a couple bucks on ebay for a Mitchell & Ness Ricky Ervins repro that somebody didn’t read the washing instructions for (the NOB has a distinctive pink-ish cast to it). The current helmet would remain in use (I don’t really see the new GM pushjing for a re-design, since his dad designed it to begin with!), although Gray facemasks are a possibility — the change back to Gray from a colored mask seems to have worked out for the Colts.

Anyway – I’ve created 4 basic designs including a Burgundy Home Jersey, a White Road Jersey, a Gold Alternate and a “George Allen” Throwback – since George’s son is the new GM. Being a modern NFL team – I have three regular pants colors (and one alternate) so they can do the whole crappy high school look if needed (Red over Red – yay!). I’ve also returned to the darker Burgundy color they wore through 1968 (and on their Redskins 75th Alternates) and prefer to use the Yellow/Gold color they are supposed to be using – although they have a habit of using too light of a shade (closer to Packers Yellow that the more correct Steelers Yellow/Gold) – their 1971 Throwbacks from 2008 especially suffered from this issue – thanks again Reebok.

1. Dark Jersey – Based on the aforementioned 1994 Throwback – Dark Burgundy jersey with Yellow/Gold numbers and sleeve gathers, the numbers are “shadowed” in Old Gold. The TV numbers are placed up on the shoulder. The collar is similar to what the Packers wore back in the 1990’s and echos the 1969-1977 jerseys designed by Vince Lombardi. I’ve, of course, deleted any sleeve striping (since modern sleeve striping looks silly) and have placed the Chief Joseph logo on the sleeve ala’ 1930’s (and the 1994) jerseys – but I’ve used the helmet logo from 1982 (the “folded feather” logo). Basically I’ve tried to have some sort of homage to every era of Redskins football combined into a single jersey.

This jersey could (should) be worn with either Yellow/Gold or White pants – it’s not noted on the image, but the pants would have a contrasting stripe based on the Steelers uniforms – i.e. a single wide Burgundy stripe on the Yellow/Gold and White pants and a Yellow/Gold stripe on the Burgundy pants.

2. White Jersey – this mirrors the Burgundy jersey – same collar, numbers are Burgundy, but retain the Old Gold “shadowing” and the circle around Chief Joseph is Burgundy (with a very thin outline of Old Gold). This jersey would most properly be worn with the Burgundy pants (harking back to the Joe Gibbs eras), although White pants could be worn.

3. Alternate Gold Jersey (ugh) – I hated to do this, but modern teams need their alternates and a Black jersey would match absolutely nothing in the ‘skins design genre. That being said, there was a (jinx) picture of Jason Campbell on the cover of Sports Illustrated last summer where he was wearing his QB practice “red-shirt” jersey – which, of course, can’t be red so its (the proper shade of) Yellow/Gold with Maroon Numbers and I thought that it looked kind-of cool. In addition, Nike’s WVU Yellow jerseys actually looked okay (for Nike, and I hate WVU’s numbers), so there’s a bit of influence from that quarter as well. This jersey omits the “Lombardi-esque” collar in favor of Plain Burgundy and Chief Joseph’s circle lacks the this gold trim. I’ve also used an alternate number style as the Old Gold “shadowing” wouldn’t look quite right. Either White or Burgundy pants should be worn with this jersey, although I’m sure somebody would want to try Yellow/Gold pants for a nice monochrome crappy high school look.

4. Throwback – modernized version of the 1969-1978 unis worn during the George Allen era, in consideration of the fact that the George’s son is the new GM. Basically the dark version of the 1971 Throwbacks they wore in 2008 (but with the proper shade of Yello/Gold), they use the current lighter Maroon shade used since Vince Lombardi designed “Packer-style” unis in 1969 and are worn with matching special Throwback pants and socks (BTW – the socks echo the jersey striping). They current helmet is worn, of course, since it was designed by George Allen for 1972 and has been used ever since (with the exception of the “folded feather” logo in 1982 – worn in Super Bowl XVII by everybody but Joe Washington and the change to Yellow facemasks. Of course, an alternate Throwback would just be the current unis, since they haven’t really changed since 1978 anyway…

Well, that’s my tweak – I’ve considered doing the Ravens, but all my designs eliminate Purple for either Blue (where they end-up looking too much like either the Colts or the CFL Baltimore Stallions) or Green and Silver like the AAFC Baltimore Colts (which means the look a lot like the second season USFL Washington Federals, or how the Eagles should look) – thanks for your time…

James Hayden

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Today’s final set of tweaks comes from Kaleb Stuckey, who has a whopping sixteen NFL teams he would like to see change their looks:

Baltimore Ravens– I got rid of the God-awful purple and replaced it with a maroon/burgundy to kep with the “dark” Ravens theme. Also, I gave them a new helmet logo.

Buffalo Bills– Probably the most necessary redesign, I gave the team back the old school white helmets, because I am obviously a big fan. Also, I made all the blues on the uniforms the same. The seven or eight different shades on the current uniforms is an eyesore.

Carolina Panthers– I got rid of the silver and, again, gave them white helmets. I changed the blue to actual “Carolina Blue.” And, just for the sake of change, I made the sleeves and jerseys different colors.

Cincinnati Bengals– I hated the old oval numbers and gave them more of a block style. Obviously the biggest change is the helmet. The stripes have worn their way out of my mind. Instead of the tiger stripes on the sleeves, I put them on the pants.

Cleveland Browns– Not too much change to these, just consistency.

Dallas Cowboys– Another consistency issue, I got rid of the ridiculous green pants and royal blue on the white. I also changed the white jersey sleeves with one band instead of the two. I also gave the three tone socks.

Detroit Lions– I got rid of the black on the color and white uniforms. If they want to wear black, they can wear the alternate, but hopefully rarely.

Houston Texans– Probably the most far-fetched concept, I brought back the old light blue from the Oilers days. I also gave them the underarm stripes.

Kansas City Chiefs– I gave more contrast to the two colors. The old red was too light and the yellow was too bright. I darkened the red and dulled down the yellow, as well as with yellow pants.

Minnesota Vikings– Obviously I used the South Carolina Gamecocks template for these, but anything is better than what they have. The new pants colors are what makes these uniforms better.

New Orleans Saints– I like simple uniforms (Colts, Jets), but boring is a different story. The Saints colors are the same as my high school colors were so I have played around with them before, but these might be my favorite. Accents and outlines are what makes them so different from the current uniforms.

New York Giants– Not too much difference in these, except for sleeve cuffs and white pants.

Pittsburgh Steelers– The most important change in these uniforms is that they have the logo sticker on both sides of the helmet (the most annoying idea in NFL uniforms.) The italicized numbers were also agonizing, so I gave them a block style and changed the color to yellow on the color uniforms.

Seattle Seahawks– Probably my favorite, I used the same current uniforms, but with the awesome colors of the former uniforms. Just as long as they don’t use the neon alternate.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers– Not too many obvious changes, but I got rid of the orange color in the accents. No team should have more than four colors on their uniforms.

Tennessee Titans– These didn’t need too much change, so I just adjusted a few things that bugged me. The helmet stripe is changed to the lighter blue. I just hope they don’t mix the light blue jersey/pants with the dark blue jersey/pants.

Thus endeth the tweaks for today. Don’t forget about the Official NFL Jersey Tweaks Contest too, which is separate from the normal uniform tweaks section. Remember, the deadline for the contest is February 1, (this Monday), so the contest WILL be closed down after that date. Keep them coming, and if you have a uniform or set of uniforms you have concepted, send them my way.

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i is a college studentIt had to happen sometime, right? After almost 22 years of inertia, this past week I took the semi-momentous step, at least for me, of returning to the university environment, beginning my post-graduate studies in pursuit of a Masters Degree in Journalism. Right now, it’s only one course (so at this rate, I’ll have a degree in four years) for now, but it’s a beginning.

Why am I telling you this? Aside from an ever-so-slight chest puffing, it means I may need to start scaling back some of the weekend columns, depending upon the amount of assignments and such I will have. Or it may just mean I need to better organize my time. Either way, I still fully intend to bring at least as much quality (if not quantity) to the weekends as I have in the past (insert “what quality?” joke here).

My favorite (or one of my favorite) part of the weekends is being able to work with many of you to bring a special or unique-ish main article to the readers, and I’d especially like to continue that. I try to work in one if not two of those per weekend, so I’m going to keep pulling a Tom Sawyer and keep those coming. However, in most of the instances, I seek a co-collaborator or two out. What I’d like to ask of you guys, though, is to come to me.

So, if you have an idea for a uni-related (unlike like today’s article) column, I’d love to see if we can’t put something together. If you have any ideas for a weekend piece, let me hear from you. No idea is too outrageous, so long as uniforms are involved, and all suggestions will be considered. If there is a topic or a sport you don’t think we see enough (or any) of on UW, let’s see if we can’t tackle it together.

OK? OK! I thank you in advance for your patience and understanding.

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help a UWer out 2And I’m not the only journalism student who needs your help these days. You may remember Kenny Ocker, the Uni Watcher who scored the fantastic interview with Casey Martin last month. Well, he’s back at the U of O and he needs your help. I’ll let Kenny explain:

Dear Uni Watch Community,

When I (The Hemogoblin/Kenny Ocker) am not on the internet, I’m a sophomore journalism major at the University of Oregon. This term, I have a class that requires me to write a 100-page research paper. My topic question is “Should cities, counties and states use public money to fund the construction and operation of sporting venues for private organizations as a way to stimulate the economy?” If any of you feel as if you have something to contribute to my topic, you can e-mail me at The Hemogoblin (at) G-mail (dot) com. I’m especially looking for people who I can interview and stories/documents that are relevant to stadium funding. (I know that you all are a relatively educated bunch on this topic, given the success of the “I’m Calling It Shea” t-shirts, and that you’re all dedicated sports fans.) Any insight on my topic would be fantastic. Also, this is why you all will hardly see me until I get through this term.

Thanks,

Kenny

No, thank you Kenny. What say you, fellow Uni Watchers, can you help a brother out?

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Alright everyone, that’s going to do it for today. Everyone have a fantastic Saturday, ok? OK!

 

225 comments to Take Me Out To The Ball Park

  • The Jeff | January 30, 2010 at 7:34 am |

    I think I’m a bit torn on the ballparks. On the one hand, some of the unique quirks of different parks are kinda cool….

    On the other hand it’s always bugged the hell out of me that baseball doesn’t have a standard field size. The idea that a homerun in one park isn’t a homerun in another park is lame.

  • The Hemogoblin | January 30, 2010 at 7:41 am |

    Oh, Phil… you misspelled my email. thehemogoblin… with a goblin in it.

    Anyway, on topic, one of the weirdest things about Ebbets Field to me is how the rotunda got copied multiple times. Not only did the Mets copy it, but before them, the Mariners used it as an inspiration to the entrance of Safeco Field. Also, I’m sure there are other stadiums that have used the ballpark in Brooklyn as an inspiration for their construction, and I would look them up if it wasn’t almost 5 AM.

  • LI Phil | January 30, 2010 at 8:06 am |

    [quote comment=”374923″]Oh, Phil… you misspelled my email. thehemogoblin… with a goblin in it.[/quote]

    oops…sorry buddy

    now fixed (the direct link was always correct, however)

  • Mike M | January 30, 2010 at 8:17 am |

    [quote comment=”374922″]I think I’m a bit torn on the ballparks. On the one hand, some of the unique quirks of different parks are kinda cool….

    On the other hand it’s always bugged the hell out of me that baseball doesn’t have a standard field size. The idea that a homerun in one park isn’t a homerun in another park is lame.[/quote]

    I actually think that’s the beauty of the ballparks.. Baseball is the only sport where your surroundings actually matter..

    I really enjoyed the article today.. As I mentioned a couple days ago in the comments, I love ballparks about as much as uniforms.. I was able to get a hold of a book, Big League Ballparks, which is looking pretty good so far.. It’s a complete illustrated history, going from the 1800s on..

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 8:34 am |

    [quote comment=”374922″]I think I’m a bit torn on the ballparks. On the one hand, some of the unique quirks of different parks are kinda cool….

    On the other hand it’s always bugged the hell out of me that baseball doesn’t have a standard field size. The idea that a homerun in one park isn’t a homerun in another park is lame.[/quote]

    The home run doesn’t define baseball any more than the dunk defines basketball. The game was not invented by someone who said, “Let’s build a fence, and the object is to hit the ball over it.” Nor was basketball conceived by someone saying, “Let’s hang a peach basket 10 feet up on the wall and the way to score is to jump high enough to stuff the ball into it.”

    Many (most?) baseball fans would say ballpark differences/quirks give the game much of its unique character. That’s part of why multi-purpose stadia fell out of favor. The idea of relentless symetry is contrary to the traditions and atmosphere of the game.

    Unlike football, baseball has long been an “in town” game, played in places where the city’s grid determined the shape and dimensions of a ballpark. It wasn’t until the late 1950s, early ’60s that baseball began to be played in perfect places on wide expanses of land outside of town.

    But everything about ballparks in the last couple decades or more has been, for the most part, about a return to the “city” feeling.

    So far I haven’t heard very many people longing for the days (or the feeling) of the massive, round, perfect places 35 miles out in the suburbs.

    I guess it boils down to whether we appreciate a game as it is, and the history of how it has been, or if we want to carp about how it should be.

    Some things don’t compute in a computer age.
    So what. Not everything has to.

    –Ricko

  • The Jeff | January 30, 2010 at 8:49 am |

    [quote comment=”374926″][quote comment=”374922″]I think I’m a bit torn on the ballparks. On the one hand, some of the unique quirks of different parks are kinda cool….

    On the other hand it’s always bugged the hell out of me that baseball doesn’t have a standard field size. The idea that a homerun in one park isn’t a homerun in another park is lame.[/quote]

    The home run doesn’t define baseball any more than the dunk defines basketball. The game was not invented by someone who said, “Let’s build a fence, and the object is to hit the ball over it.” Nor was basketball conceived by someone saying, “Let’s hang a peach basket 10 feet up on the wall and the way to score is to jump high enough to stuff the ball into it.”

    Many (most?) baseball fans would say ballpark differences/quirks give the game much of its unique character. That’s part of why multi-purpose stadia fell out of favor. The idea of relentless symetry is contrary to the traditions and atmosphere of the game.

    Unlike football, baseball has long been an “in town” game, played in places where the city’s grid determined the shape and dimensions of a ballpark. It wasn’t until the late 1950s, early ’60s that baseball began to be played in perfect places on wide expanses of land outside of town.

    But everything about ballparks in the last couple decades or more has been, for the most part, about a return to the “city” feeling.

    So far I haven’t heard very many people longing for the days (or the feeling) of the massive, round, perfect places 35 miles out in the suburbs.

    I guess it boils down to whether we appreciate a game as it is, and the history of how it has been, or if we want to carp about how it should be.

    Some things don’t compute in a computer age.
    So what. Not everything has to.

    –Ricko[/quote]

    Now I’m confused… am I supposed to stay off your lawn, or is it cool to use your fence as a foul line? :P

  • aflfan | January 30, 2010 at 9:01 am |

    Phil,

    Great post today. I love the history of baseball and hockey for that matter. I never got to see a game in any of those old stadiums but they look like they were an awesome place to watch a game.

    As for The Jeff’s comment. That is the beauty of baseball. It is different from the other three major sports in that it doesn’t have specified dimension for the field so that each park has its’ own character. I hated the “cookie-cutter stadium” of the 70’s. Busch, Riverfront, Three Rivers and Olympic Stadium were basically the same stadium. There was no character to those parks. Tiger Stadium had character, Pittsburgh’s new field has character, Wrigley and Fenway have character. That is the beauty of baseball.

  • TC Mark | January 30, 2010 at 9:05 am |

    Nice job Phil. I too love the old ballparks even though I have never been to any of them (other than Wrigley, Comiskey and Fenway). Maybe that is part of the attraction – wanting what you can’t ever have? I look at all old buildings in the same way, having started out my undergrad in architecture (way too much math for me though).

    The quirkiness is a big part of the draw I believe, and today’s stadiums are trying (ugly concrete bowls and domes aside) to add character but only time will tell if they have the lasting impact. In many ways they seem to be trying to hard and mistake quirkiness for character. I would imaging many (all?) of the now-gone venues’ quirks were not by design but by circumstance and necessity. And I wholeheartedly and respectfully disagree that baseball diamonds should be standardized. Baseball stands alone in this regard and should do so proudly.

    I’m sure there is some romanticizing by those of us who didn’t have to experience some of the negatives of an older building. So be it.

    While uniforms and logos are certainly a passion, the stadiums and arenas (but ballparks more than any) have always held a strong interest for me. As free agency took hold and players became somewhat interchangeable the venues (and uniforms and logos) became the focus for me.

    Thanks again Phil. I look forward to your future posts on this topic (and others). Good luck on the grad program as well.

  • Larry Kurtze | January 30, 2010 at 9:13 am |

    Guess the game … 2009 Emerald Bowl. BC 24 – USC 13. December 26, 2009.

  • Larry Kurtze | January 30, 2010 at 9:15 am |

    [quote comment=”374930″]Guess the game … 2009 Emerald Bowl. BC 24 – USC 13. December 26, 2009.[/quote]
    Played in San Francisco, of course. Here’s a link.

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 9:20 am |

    The Jeff said…

    “Now I’m confused… am I supposed to stay off your lawn, or is it cool to use your fence as a foul line? :P ”

    I’m saying, roll with it. Appreciate the quirkiness and the charm anamolies bring to the game. Not everything has to be “just so”.

    Imperfect conditions—wind and “sun fields” and a bit of rain and occasional cold (or exceptionally hot) weather—are part of football and baseball. Always have been. They’re outdoor sports. So enjoy the variety. I’m sure you’d agree it’s certainly far better than playing all their games in virtually identical, climate-conrolled, hermetically sealed, antiseptic domes. That would get old real fast.

    Trust me, been watching the Twins do that since 1982. Yeah, the Dome helped win a couple World Series, but, all in all…bor-ing.

    (Not all ice sheets are the same size in hockey, either, you know. lol ).

    —Ricko

  • The Jeff | January 30, 2010 at 9:22 am |

    [quote comment=”374928″]Phil,

    Great post today. I love the history of baseball and hockey for that matter. I never got to see a game in any of those old stadiums but they look like they were an awesome place to watch a game.

    As for The Jeff’s comment. That is the beauty of baseball. It is different from the other three major sports in that it doesn’t have specified dimension for the field so that each park has its’ own character. I hated the “cookie-cutter stadium” of the 70’s. Busch, Riverfront, Three Rivers and Olympic Stadium were basically the same stadium. There was no character to those parks. Tiger Stadium had character, Pittsburgh’s new field has character, Wrigley and Fenway have character. That is the beauty of baseball.[/quote]

    I don’t think “character” and size of playing field have to be mutually exclusive. I think most would agree that Lambeau Field, Soldier Field and Mile High Stadium all have their own character while having the same size field.

    Imagine if the NBA didn’t have standard courts. What if in New York you had a 25ft 3point line and in Miami it was only 22.5ft? That hardly seems like a good thing to me.

    (Yeah I know, nothing I say is going to change any minds and the MLB doesn’t care what I think either)

  • Shane | January 30, 2010 at 9:28 am |

    Very cool, Phil. I love pretty much anything to do with baseball history (which I suppose is why I come here). Definitely looking forward to another round of old ballparks. Don’t forget the Baker Bowl in Philly!

  • aflfan | January 30, 2010 at 9:30 am |

    [quote comment=”374933″][quote comment=”374928″]Phil,

    Great post today. I love the history of baseball and hockey for that matter. I never got to see a game in any of those old stadiums but they look like they were an awesome place to watch a game.

    As for The Jeff’s comment. That is the beauty of baseball. It is different from the other three major sports in that it doesn’t have specified dimension for the field so that each park has its’ own character. I hated the “cookie-cutter stadium” of the 70’s. Busch, Riverfront, Three Rivers and Olympic Stadium were basically the same stadium. There was no character to those parks. Tiger Stadium had character, Pittsburgh’s new field has character, Wrigley and Fenway have character. That is the beauty of baseball.[/quote]

    I don’t think “character” and size of playing field have to be mutually exclusive. I think most would agree that Lambeau Field, Soldier Field and Mile High Stadium all have their own character while having the same size field.

    Imagine if the NBA didn’t have standard courts. What if in New York you had a 25ft 3point line and in Miami it was only 22.5ft? That hardly seems like a good thing to me.

    (Yeah I know, nothing I say is going to change any minds and the MLB doesn’t care what I think either)[/quote]

    In the NCAA Basketball rule book, there is a minimum and maximum size for basketball courts so they are not all the same either.

    And as ricko say, unless that the games are played in a dome with exact same size and that the same altitude above sea level (let’s face it, the ball flys at Coors better than it does at lower altitude stadiums) they are never going to be the same and that is a good thing.

  • Argyles | January 30, 2010 at 9:32 am |

    I’ve seen that photo of Stengel walking back to the Polo Grounds clubhouse before, but only now noticed the “h” and “e” in “Rheingold” on the scoreboard look different from the other letters. Were they “hit” and “error” indicators like the “ScHaEfer” at Ebbets Field?

  • Scott Little | January 30, 2010 at 9:35 am |

    I’m a Bill Veeck fan, and know a few trivial things about Sportsman’s…

    When Veeck bought the team he moved the team offices to the street level, and put his apartment upstairs where the offices were. There was even a tiny yard where Veeck’s kid could play.

    The Cardinals offices were located on the opposite side of the stadium.

    Veeck used to keep the Browns side extra nice, fresh paint, etc. and the Cards side he didn’t keep up, which would’ve been an interesting look.

    Veeck had a private box with a small bar. He would never let the Cardinals use it while he owned the stadium, which really pissed off the fancypants Cards owners.

    He sold it to Mr. Busch for $800,000. It was in such disrepair at the time, it cost another million to get into shape for the coming season.

    And, some scoreboard trivia for you…
    Did you know Veeck had a “pitchometer” installed into the exploding Comiskey scoreboard, but never used it? It was going to count twenty seconds, the time a pitcher is allowed to hold the ball with nobody on base. The playclock is so important in football, kinda makes you think what woulda happened had he used it..

  • Hibbsy | January 30, 2010 at 9:43 am |

    I was bummed when when the Cardinals built the newest Busch Stadium. I was never a fan of the cookie cutters. However, I did like the idea of being the only cookie cutter. Plus, the rennovations that were made in 1996 (grass, green concrete instead of blue, etc.) created a nice atmosphere. Our new stadium is just a cookie cutter of of the Camden Yards craze of the mid-nineties.

  • leon | January 30, 2010 at 9:44 am |

    [quote comment=”374937″]I’m a Bill Veeck fan, and know a few trivial things about Sportsman’s…

    When Veeck bought the team he moved the team offices to the street level, and put his apartment upstairs where the offices were. There was even a tiny yard where Veeck’s kid could play.

    The Cardinals offices were located on the opposite side of the stadium.

    Veeck used to keep the Browns side extra nice, fresh paint, etc. and the Cards side he didn’t keep up, which would’ve been an interesting look.

    Veeck had a private box with a small bar. He would never let the Cardinals use it while he owned the stadium, which really pissed off the fancypants Cards owners.

    He sold it to Mr. Busch for $800,000. It was in such disrepair at the time, it cost another million to get into shape for the coming season.

    And, some scoreboard trivia for you…
    Did you know Veeck had a “pitchometer” installed into the exploding Comiskey scoreboard, but never used it? It was going to count twenty seconds, the time a pitcher is allowed to hold the ball with nobody on base. The playclock is so important in football, kinda makes you think what woulda happened had he used it..[/quote]

    Suddenly, I have the urge to smoke a menthol and drink an iced tea.
    :)

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 9:44 am |

    The Jeff said…

    “Imagine if the NBA didn’t have standard courts. What if in New York you had a 25ft 3point line and in Miami it was only 22.5ft? That hardly seems like a good thing to me.”

    Key difference. Every player shoots at the same basket. Not every player is a home run hitter.

    It is possible to win a baseball game without hitting a home run. It isn’t Home Run Derby; there are many combinations of ways to score a “run”. Cannot win a basketball game without making at least a free throw.

    (As I said earlier, the home run is not the central issue in baseball. It is not home run or nothing. That’s Ring-the-Bell-with-the-Big-Hammer-at-the-County Fair.)

    —Ricko

  • JTH | January 30, 2010 at 10:09 am |

    [quote comment=”374929″]The quirkiness is a big part of the draw I believe, and today’s stadiums are trying (ugly concrete bowls and domes aside) to add character but only time will tell if they have the lasting impact. In many ways they seem to be trying to hard and mistake quirkiness for character. I would imaging many (all?) of the now-gone venues’ quirks were not by design but by circumstance and necessity. And I wholeheartedly and respectfully disagree that baseball diamonds should be standardized. Baseball stands alone in this regard and should do so proudly.
    [/quote]
    The forced quirkiness kinda bugs me. It seems like so many of the newer places are trying to cram the proverbial 10 pounds of shit into the 5 pound bag. Houston, I’m looking at you.

    Take Dodger Stadium as the antithesis of this. One of the baseball meccas for sure, but look at the playing field. Symmetry? Heaven forbid!

    That place would never be built today. Nope. Gotta throw in a flagpole and a little hill. Oh, let’s make something jut out of somewhere for no particular reason. Ooh, and how about if we have a vehicle drive across the outfield after a home run? Train’s already been done. How about a Zamboni? Why a Zamboni? Why the hell not? It’s quirky and therefore will give the park character.

  • The Jeff | January 30, 2010 at 10:12 am |

    [quote comment=”374940″]The Jeff said…

    “Imagine if the NBA didn’t have standard courts. What if in New York you had a 25ft 3point line and in Miami it was only 22.5ft? That hardly seems like a good thing to me.”

    Key difference. Every player shoots at the same basket. Not every player is a home run hitter.

    It is possible to win a baseball game without hitting a home run. It isn’t Home Run Derby; there are many combinations of ways to score a “run”. Cannot win a basketball game without making at least a free throw.

    (As I said earlier, the home run is not the central issue in baseball. It is not home run or nothing. That’s Ring-the-Bell-with-the-Big-Hammer-at-the-County Fair.)

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Well it was the best analogy I could come up with. I guess a more accurate one might be changing the distance between the hashmarks on random NFL fields… but that wouldn’t really have as much of an effect either.

    I’m not going to argue about it anymore, it is the way it is. It just bugs me.

    And for the record I’m perfectly fine with weather as a factor. It’s random and uncontrollable.

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 10:15 am |

    TC Mark said…

    “Houston, I’m looking at you.”

    Absolutely. The phony stuff is irritating. Like mini-golf and the clown’s mouth.

    But how appropriate it was first called Enron Field. All gimmickry and “the public will buy it”.

    Kinda like, “Watch my left hand gesture with fantastic flourishes while my right hand picks your pocket.”

    —Ricko

  • Johnny O | January 30, 2010 at 10:16 am |

    Breaking news from the Mothership… Favre is to remain retired for good. It is reported that he and Adrian Peterson will be opening up a bakery in Minneapolis called “Turnovers”.

    *rimsot* I’ll be here all weekend!

    On a serious note, I posted this last night, but it was late. This is the worst news to happen to the PGA Tour since Tiger-Gate:
    http://sports.espn.g...

    I hope he reconsiders, and really focuses on his game.

  • TC Mark | January 30, 2010 at 10:31 am |

    [quote comment=”374943″]TC Mark said…

    “Houston, I’m looking at you.”

    Absolutely. The phony stuff is irritating. Like mini-golf and the clown’s mouth.

    But how appropriate it was first called Enron Field. All gimmickry and “the public will buy it”.

    Kinda like, “Watch my left hand gesture with fantastic flourishes while my right hand picks your pocket.”

    —Ricko[/quote]

    The Twins’ new Target Field is gorgeous in most respects. But it has a few forced quirks (probably more to be discovered once it opens). They have the stands jutting over the field in right, the roof deck in the left field corner, the neon sign in center where the M and StP players “shake” hands after Twins’ homers. Defining yes. Character maybe. Only time will tell. Quirky to be quirky doesn’t cut it for me.

    It appears they have done most of it right. I’ll choose to focus on those aspects and not the minor “why?” quirks.

  • Teebz | January 30, 2010 at 10:35 am |

    [quote comment=”374928″]Phil,

    Great post today. I love the history of baseball and hockey for that matter. I never got to see a game in any of those old stadiums but they look like they were an awesome place to watch a game.

    As for The Jeff’s comment. That is the beauty of baseball. It is different from the other three major sports in that it doesn’t have specified dimension for the field so that each park has its’ own character. I hated the “cookie-cutter stadium” of the 70’s. Busch, Riverfront, Three Rivers and Olympic Stadium were basically the same stadium. There was no character to those parks. Tiger Stadium had character, Pittsburgh’s new field has character, Wrigley and Fenway have character. That is the beauty of baseball.[/quote]

    The other three sports?

    I believe hockey’s old rinks varied in terms of length and width. Chicago Stadium and Boston Garden were significantly different for a long, long time in terms of their dimensions.

    Now, like baseball, it’s all about how many fans can you stuff through the turnstile.

  • Mark K | January 30, 2010 at 10:39 am |

    Ballpark posts = good. More, please.

  • aflfan | January 30, 2010 at 10:43 am |

    [quote comment=”374946″][quote comment=”374928″]Phil,

    Great post today. I love the history of baseball and hockey for that matter. I never got to see a game in any of those old stadiums but they look like they were an awesome place to watch a game.

    As for The Jeff’s comment. That is the beauty of baseball. It is different from the other three major sports in that it doesn’t have specified dimension for the field so that each park has its’ own character. I hated the “cookie-cutter stadium” of the 70’s. Busch, Riverfront, Three Rivers and Olympic Stadium were basically the same stadium. There was no character to those parks. Tiger Stadium had character, Pittsburgh’s new field has character, Wrigley and Fenway have character. That is the beauty of baseball.[/quote]

    The other three sports?

    I believe hockey’s old rinks varied in terms of length and width. Chicago Stadium and Boston Garden were significantly different for a long, long time in terms of their dimensions.

    Now, like baseball, it’s all about how many fans can you stuff through the turnstile.[/quote]

    Teebz,

    I agree with you that in the past with the old stadiums, that the ice legnth varied. I was talking about today.

  • M.Princip | January 30, 2010 at 10:46 am |

    Nice job with those uniforms Kaleb. I especially liked the Ravens set; adding the burgundy and the B logo. Maybe adding in, some fashion, the MD flag elements to that B logo could be pretty slick?

    Good stuff with James Hayden’s writeup on his Redskin’s concepts. Like the idea of using that number font; i.e. 33. Especially dig the dark jersey with gold, or, white pants.

  • M.Princip | January 30, 2010 at 10:51 am |

    Just added, first team picture for the Seattle Seahawks, before they ever played a pre-season game. I know this because Ahmad Rashad is in this pic., and Steve Largent is not. Look third from left, top row of players.

  • LI Phil | January 30, 2010 at 10:53 am |

    [quote comment=”374941″]Houston, I’m looking at you.[/quote]

    damn jimbo, i could devote an entire post to how much i hate enron orange juice field…but i won’t

    the train is fine, i get it…but it’s just one of many bumperstickers — did they really need to load up the coal carrier with oranges???

    retractable roof? good, but how often can they really keep it open? and even when the can, don’t the pitchers bitch about it?

    roof closed? looks like a few other retractable roof parks (the old BOB, miller)

    outside view? looks like a dozen other convention centers/malls

    but what really bugs the shit out of me?

    tal’s hill…i kinda get what they were going for — but really? how long before someone really breaks a leg there? carlos beltran? not a fan…

    it’s like someone said, hey, tiger stadium has a flag pole in play and crosley field has a terrace … wouldn’t it be great to combine the two?

    i love the newer parks (especially compared to the concrete/astroturfed multi-purpose donuts), but please, for the love of christ…STOP PUTTING SHIT on the field that doesn’t belong

    /rant off

  • chris s | January 30, 2010 at 10:59 am |

    There was a story about how Giants owner Horace Stoneham wanted to hire the Dodgers’ groundskeeper but one of the issues was the guy didn’t want to commute between Brooklyn and Manhattan.
    So, Stoneham had a full apartment built into the Polo Grounds, where the guy, his wife and kid lived.
    SI did a story about it in the 80s.
    Joshua Prager’s “The Echoing Green” does an incredible job recreating the Polo Grounds.

  • ScottyM | January 30, 2010 at 10:59 am |

    Terrific effort Phil!

    I love learning about old stadiums. In elementary school in the 80s I drew the old Crosley Field in Cincy for an art project. Wish I still had it. I’d often draw stadiums, renovations of existing ones, etc.

    I even mentioned an idea to RJM a few weeks ago about how it would be cool to see someone cover historic stadia in depth (in this case, college football venues). So, thanks!

    No city takes more care to incorporate history into its sports architecture than Indianapolis: Hinkle Fieldhouse, Conseco Fieldhouse and now Lucas Oil Stadium.

    Conseco is the best modern arena in the country … nostalgic with true history incorporated without being fake at all.

    Hinkle is the most under-appreciated venue, IMO (the Palestra, Cameron and MSG get all the love … but Hinkle has more character, with its windows). http://sportsillustr...

    Anyway, love the effort. It most certainly fits perfectly here within the aesthetics of athletics.

    Lots of great areas to cover:
    NBA – the old Portland War Memorial Coliseum with its windows, the San Antonio HemisFair with the colums, the Mecca, and so forth.

    College would be a bonanza – The Pit, the Rack in Oregon, Assembly Hall, Mackey Arena.

    College Football — Tennessee, Yale, El Paso, BYU, Toledo … so many cool designs/stories.

    Unfortunately, stadia in the NFL in the 00s is as antiseptic as baseball in the 70s.

    Such a great, great subject!

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 11:00 am |

    [quote comment=”374950″]Just added, first team picture for the Seattle Seahawks, before they ever played a pre-season game. I know this because Ahmad Rashad is in this pic., and Steve Largent is not. Look third from left, top row of players.[/quote]

    Seahawks traded Rashad to the Vikings for Bob Lurtsema during that first pre-season because Seattle O-Coordinator (or whatever the position was called at the time) Jerry Rhome said he “wasn’t the kind of player who can play in our offense.”

    My source: Rashad.

    —Ricko

  • M.Princip | January 30, 2010 at 11:02 am |

    Oh and I have to say, fantastic writeup on those ball parks Phil. Awesome read, and look at those vintage pics.

    http://www.cyburbia....

  • The Ol Goaler | January 30, 2010 at 11:02 am |

    Sportsman’s Park has a unique place in baseball history; the 1944 World Series is the only WS to be played in one ballpark! The A’s and Phillies (who shared Shibe Park) never faced each other in the Series, while all the “Subway Series” in New York were played in two ballparks… Yankee Stadium and Ebbetts Field/the Polo Grounds/Shea Stadium.

    I’m old enough to have watched ballgames at Sportsman’s Park, Busch Memorial Stadium, and the new Busch Stadium. From a fan’s perspective, the newest park reminds me more of Sportsman’s Park than the “cookie cutter” Busch Stadium because the sightlines are so much better!

    Yes, I have seen both Stan Musial and Albert Pujols hit… I’m a lucky goaler!

  • concealed78 | January 30, 2010 at 11:03 am |

    As a baseball video gamer since 1987, my biggest #1 thirst for the genre was always ballparks. It always bugged me that in the NES RBI Baseball & Bases Loaded series, it was always the same one damn ballpark! Then Harball III came along with all 28 parks. Nice, but very little park showed. Then Hardball ’95 was the first (that I know of) to have retro ballparks. “Old Time Baseball” was another to have retro parks like Old Comiskey Park (1950s) that I have yet to ever see replicated on other games.

    Over the years, I realized how important these older games are, like Triple Play ’97 & High Heat 2001 that have stadiums that were replaced in the 1990s. I can’t wait for the game that has ever single ballpark ever used in MLB. Until then, I will not invest in a single console.

  • Hoog | January 30, 2010 at 11:06 am |

    Gotta give a shout out to Rosenblatt Stadium in Omaha. And yes I realize it’s not an MLB park and it was only built in 1947 but there’s a lot of history there and the people are great. Go watch a College World Series game there while you still can.

  • scott | January 30, 2010 at 11:12 am |

    [quote comment=”374933″][quote comment=”374928″]
    Imagine if the NBA didn’t have standard courts. What if in New York you had a 25ft 3point line and in Miami it was only 22.5ft? That hardly seems like a good thing to me.

    (Yeah I know, nothing I say is going to change any minds and the MLB doesn’t care what I think either)[/quote]

    But all baseball fields do have the same distance between the bases and the pitcher’s mound and home plate, which is really more comparable to the idea that all three-point lines be the same distance.

    I think more sports SHOULD have more distinctions between their facilities. It’s nice to see football played on both grass and plastic, in elements and in domes.

  • Chris M | January 30, 2010 at 11:13 am |

    Is it just me, or is the Uni Tweaks section exactly how to NOT design a uniform?

  • speterso | January 30, 2010 at 11:17 am |

    Thanks! I really enjoyed the information on old stadiums and really looking forward to the next installment!

  • M.Princip | January 30, 2010 at 11:18 am |

    [quote comment=”374954″][quote comment=”374950″]Just added, first team picture for the Seattle Seahawks, before they ever played a pre-season game. I know this because Ahmad Rashad is in this pic., and Steve Largent is not. Look third from left, top row of players.[/quote]

    Seahawks traded Rashad to the Vikings for Bob Lurtsema during that first pre-season because Seattle O-Coordinator (or whatever the position was called at the time) Jerry Rhome said he “wasn’t the kind of player who can play in our offense.”

    My source: Rashad.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    I don’t believe Ahmad ever suited up for a game though. Got quite contentious with Patera and especially Rhome, because of their disciplinarian ways. I know his picture and name were listed in those early programs, however, no game pics.

  • scott | January 30, 2010 at 11:18 am |

    [quote comment=”374951″]

    but what really bugs the shit out of me?

    tal’s hill…i kinda get what they were going for — but really? how long before someone really breaks a leg there? carlos beltran? not a fan…

    it’s like someone said, hey, tiger stadium has a flag pole in play and crosley field has a terrace … wouldn’t it be great to combine the two?

    [/quote]

    Albuquerque has a hill in its new ballpark, and Johnson City of the Appy League has a large hill in its rightfield.

    Has anyone actually been injured because of Tal’s Hill?

  • concealed78 | January 30, 2010 at 11:25 am |

    [quote comment=”374922″]I think I’m a bit torn on the ballparks. On the one hand, some of the unique quirks of different parks are kinda cool….

    On the other hand it’s always bugged the hell out of me that baseball doesn’t have a standard field size. The idea that a homerun in one park isn’t a homerun in another park is lame.[/quote]

    What you say is “lame” I say is “retro charm”. It harkens back in the day when teams were forced to set up shop with what they could, not what they could blackmail. Every baseball diamond is identical, so a standard section of the field is in place. There’s also rules on minimum foul territory, as well a rule but sometimes waived on minimum feet for foul poles. Part of the charm is that in baseball you can alter your field & stadium to benefit your team & design one based on it. Plus it makes home/away stats that more interesting. If we learned anything about baseball, symmetrical cookie-cutter stadiums are boring as hell.

  • Larry Kurtze | January 30, 2010 at 11:25 am |

    [quote comment=”374941″][quote comment=”374929″]The quirkiness is a big part of the draw I believe, and today’s stadiums are trying (ugly concrete bowls and domes aside) to add character but only time will tell if they have the lasting impact. In many ways they seem to be trying to hard and mistake quirkiness for character. I would imaging many (all?) of the now-gone venues’ quirks were not by design but by circumstance and necessity. And I wholeheartedly and respectfully disagree that baseball diamonds should be standardized. Baseball stands alone in this regard and should do so proudly.
    [/quote]
    The forced quirkiness kinda bugs me. It seems like so many of the newer places are trying to cram the proverbial 10 pounds of shit into the 5 pound bag. Houston, I’m looking at you.

    Take Dodger Stadium as the antithesis of this. One of the baseball meccas for sure, but look at the playing field. Symmetry? Heaven forbid!

    That place would never be built today. Nope. Gotta throw in a flagpole and a little hill. Oh, let’s make something jut out of somewhere for no particular reason. Ooh, and how about if we have a vehicle drive across the outfield after a home run? Train’s already been done. How about a Zamboni? Why a Zamboni? Why the hell not? It’s quirky and therefore will give the park character.[/quote]

    Dodger Stadium is a great ballpark and in great shape for a place that’s damn near 50 years old. It’s literally built into the side of a hill, which amongst other things makes it a pain in the ass to walk to. But the view from the stands into the outfield is gorgeous if you can overlook the parking lots. The park truly is integrated with the landscape no different than a classic old ballpark being part of the neighborhood. And their recent return to the original pastel seat color scheme can only be described as perfect.

  • tosaman | January 30, 2010 at 11:26 am |

    [quote comment=”374950″]Just added, first team picture for the Seattle Seahawks, before they ever played a pre-season game. I know this because Ahmad Rashad is in this pic., and Steve Largent is not. Look third from left, top row of players.[/quote]

    Sweet photo. Any idea where is was shot? Univ. of Washington (as a guess)?

  • BSmile | January 30, 2010 at 11:27 am |

    [quote comment=”374956″]Sportsman’s Park has a unique place in baseball history; the 1944 World Series is the only WS to be played in one ballpark! The A’s and Phillies (who shared Shibe Park) never faced each other in the Series, while all the “Subway Series” in New York were played in two ballparks… Yankee Stadium and Ebbetts Field/the Polo Grounds/Shea Stadium.
    [/quote]

    The 1921 and 1922 World Series between the Giants and Yankees was played at one park…the Polo Grounds. (The Yanks first played in Yankee Stadium in 1923.)

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 11:28 am |

    [quote comment=”374962″][quote comment=”374954″][quote comment=”374950″]Just added, first team picture for the Seattle Seahawks, before they ever played a pre-season game. I know this because Ahmad Rashad is in this pic., and Steve Largent is not. Look third from left, top row of players.[/quote]

    Seahawks traded Rashad to the Vikings for Bob Lurtsema during that first pre-season because Seattle O-Coordinator (or whatever the position was called at the time) Jerry Rhome said he “wasn’t the kind of player who can play in our offense.”

    My source: Rashad.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    I don’t believe Ahmad ever suited up for a game though. Got quite contentious with Patera and especially Rhome, because of their disciplinarian ways. I know his picture and name were listed in those early programs, however, no game pics.[/quote]

    Yeah, I should have said Rashad was traded during training camp, cuz I don’t know that he ever suited up.

    And I was just giving Rashad’s version of it, and what Rhome told him.

    Considering how well Rashad performed for the Vikings it does make something of an argument for allowing a bit of latitude in handling pros.

    I attended the wedding of a young man who had signed with Vikings as a free agent QB a few years ago. At dinner one night during a pre-wedding gathering, someone asked him if he’d want Randy Moss as a teammate (was during Moss’ difficult times here). He thought for only a second before answering, “At this level, yes.”

    Once it becomes a profession and you’re dealing with adults and not college kids, the paradigm changes a bit.

    —Ricko

  • Stuby | January 30, 2010 at 11:28 am |

    You never know where Mr. Lukas might show up – this from the SF Chronicle (last paragraph)…

    http://www.sfgate.co...

    Great work today, Phil.

  • M.Princip | January 30, 2010 at 11:37 am |

    [quote comment=”374968″][quote comment=”374962″][quote comment=”374954″][quote comment=”374950″]Just added, first team picture for the Seattle Seahawks, before they ever played a pre-season game. I know this because Ahmad Rashad is in this pic., and Steve Largent is not. Look third from left, top row of players.[/quote]

    Seahawks traded Rashad to the Vikings for Bob Lurtsema during that first pre-season because Seattle O-Coordinator (or whatever the position was called at the time) Jerry Rhome said he “wasn’t the kind of player who can play in our offense.”

    My source: Rashad.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    I don’t believe Ahmad ever suited up for a game though. Got quite contentious with Patera and especially Rhome, because of their disciplinarian ways. I know his picture and name were listed in those early programs, however, no game pics.[/quote]

    Once it becomes a profession and you’re dealing with adults and not college kids, the paradigm changes a bit.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Yep! In example, Nick Saban. At the pro level, eventually you’ll have to cut the baby talk.

  • mike 2 | January 30, 2010 at 11:43 am |

    Great post today Phil.

  • M.Princip | January 30, 2010 at 11:48 am |

    [quote comment=”374966″][quote comment=”374950″]Just added, first team picture for the Seattle Seahawks, before they ever played a pre-season game. I know this because Ahmad Rashad is in this pic., and Steve Largent is not. Look third from left, top row of players.[/quote]

    Sweet photo. Any idea where is was shot? Univ. of Washington (as a guess)?[/quote]

    That would be my guess, a 70s Husky Stadium.

  • JTH | January 30, 2010 at 11:51 am |

    [quote comment=”374973″][quote comment=”374966″][quote comment=”374950″]Just added, first team picture for the Seattle Seahawks, before they ever played a pre-season game. I know this because Ahmad Rashad is in this pic., and Steve Largent is not. Look third from left, top row of players.[/quote]

    Sweet photo. Any idea where is was shot? Univ. of Washington (as a guess)?[/quote]

    That would be my guess, a 70s Husky Stadium.[/quote]
    That team photo needs to go into the FAQ to dispel the myth of the logo-free helmets once and for all.

  • Bob A | January 30, 2010 at 11:52 am |

    My best friend as a kid was a Giants fan and his father took us to see the Mets play them in the Polo Grounds in ’63. I was 12 or so but I do remember how different it looked from what I was used to (Yankee Stadium).

    My father grew up about 5 blocks from Ebbets Field but was a Yankee fan. As close as he was he made only ONE visit to Ebbets… when the Yanks played there in the ’47 Series. I asked him why he never went despite the fact he loved baseball and he would look at me like I was dumb. He was a YANKEE fan… why go to a Dodger game?

  • Squiddie | January 30, 2010 at 12:00 pm |

    The Strib and WCCO both reported that Vikings as NFC champions merchandise being sent to Haiti

    As one commenter said, haven’t they suffered enough?

  • leon | January 30, 2010 at 12:04 pm |

    Also in the Seahawks photo: Mike Curtis (32).

    http://www.youtube.c...

  • Giancarlo | January 30, 2010 at 12:11 pm |

    Looking at the old Polo Grounds always amazes me. It’s hard to believe a major league team played there for so many years with those seriously odd dimensions, especially the short sides. The other ballfield that I think is really weird is the one with the massively vast foul territory around home plate – I can’t remember which field that was though.. I know Oakland had a lot of foul territory, but I’m thinking of an older park.. anyone?

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 12:12 pm |

    Wow, since the comments are piling up, I’ll throw in a little something before actually reading the article.

    Growing up, I liked seeing shots of the OLD ballparks. The only “old” ones I went to were Cleveland Municipal and Baltimore Memorial – not exactly in the same class as the ones mentioned here. Mostly, though, I attended games at cookie-cutter Three Rivers. I enjoyed both experiences.

    It’s easy to lump all the cookie-cutters into one, but in reality they had their differences. Three Rivers had a little bit of charm. Had they ripped out the turf and put in grass (and maybe knocked down a section) it could have still been a viable place to play.

    Busch Stadium always looked great on TV, especially after they put in grass. Loved the arch holes at the top of the stadium that made those great shadows. RFK was a treat to watch, too.

    Riverfront Stadium looked a little too antiseptic for me. And the Vet? On TV and in person, I found it to be a real crap hole.

    While I like Camden Yards and PNC Park, I don’t want EVERY park to have the same faux-retro feel with just a little bit of difference to distinguish them. I’d like a mix of old ballparks with quirks borne out of necessity, some cookie-cutters (especially in less well-off citites that shouldn’t be gouging taxpayers for two separate fields), some new retro-ish parks, and some new out-there designs.

    Okay, now I’ll go read.

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 12:22 pm |

    Oops, how could I forget? I did get to go to one OLD park, Tiger Stadium. LOVED it. Got to go in ’99, and I sat in the left field upper deck. Always loved seeing that section on TV and wanted to experience it firsthand.

  • Wollen1 | January 30, 2010 at 12:23 pm |

    Very good piece. I was glad to see that the classic stadiums were being put on the Playstation 3 game. Acclaim and EA Sports no longer produce MLB games, but these two companies were really the pioneers in the area of classic stadiums (and no, I won’t call them stadia).

    Acclaim had all of the featured stadiums on their game back in 2003 or so. They also had Philadelphia’s Baker Bowl, which I loved playing in due to it’s very short dimensions and concrete jungle setting.

    Other stadiums featured in video game form between Acclaim and EA Sports included the Astrodome, Cleveland’s ‘Mistake by the Lake’, the Twins’ Metropolitan Stadium, Tiger Stadium, classic Fenway and classic Yankee Stadium, both of which were really cool by the way.

    I believe in 2005 or 06, Acclaim made available a park that had a great resemblence to Ebbets Field, although it wasn’t called Ebbets, presumably due to licensing issues.

  • mike 2 | January 30, 2010 at 12:27 pm |

    [quote comment=”374979″]…
    It’s easy to lump all the cookie-cutters into one, but in reality they had their differences. Three Rivers had a little bit of charm. Had they ripped out the turf and put in grass (and maybe knocked down a section) it could have still been a viable place to play…[/quote]

    Basically, the last few years of Riverfront (when Great American Ballpark was under construction).

    http://www.ballparks...

  • DarkAudit | January 30, 2010 at 12:29 pm |

    The Reds would put seats on the Crosley terrace for overflow crowds. The incline was so people in back could see over those in front.

    You’ll see a pennant in Pittsburgh before you see seats on Tal’s Hill.

  • Scott Little | January 30, 2010 at 12:32 pm |

    Veeck describes as one of his inspirations to the stadium apartment as groundskeeper Bob Dorr, who attatched a house to Wrigley Field.

    Anyone know of any other stadium residences?

  • Paul G | January 30, 2010 at 12:33 pm |

    To all the edited uniforms:

    Redskins: Get rid of the gold numbers on the home jersey.
    Ravens: Too dark. u need to ditch the dark pants and numbers.
    Bills: Pretty good. I dont like the red numbers and pants. the helmets were good.
    Panthers: Other than the blue pants, pretty much perfect.
    Bengals: One of the worst, between the orange numbers and the pants the same color of the shirt. Also, u gotta ditch the orange facemasks.
    Browns: Other than the orange pants, pretty good. But an orange aternate would be good.
    Cowboys: The consistency issue had always bugged me, but it was fixed.
    Lions: Pretty good, but you should get rid of the helmet stripe.
    Texans: Decent. The triple-stripes on the pants should be replaced with a more modern stripe to match the shirt.
    Chiefs: Very nice, as long as there is no gold alternate and you mix and match the pants.
    Vikings: Nice, except for the gold pants.
    Saints: The gold numbers on the road outfits are a serious problem.
    Giants: It had always gotten on my nerves that the Giants home and alternate jerseys had no red or blue, respectively, and you fixed that. However, all gray pants should be the same, instead of changing the stripes.
    Steelers: The current ones are perfect. You changed them. The end.
    Seahawks: Pretty good, except for the green alternate.
    Buccaneers: The tan stripes, and collars on the homes are better in black. Also, the numbers should really be white.
    Titans: You fixed the dark stripe on the helmet, which is good. However, you should switch the order of the triple-stripes on the pants, so the darker of the colors are always on the outside.

  • JTH | January 30, 2010 at 12:37 pm |

    [quote comment=”374978″]Looking at the old Polo Grounds always amazes me. It’s hard to believe a major league team played there for so many years with those seriously odd dimensions, especially the short sides. The other ballfield that I think is really weird is the one with the massively vast foul territory around home plate – I can’t remember which field that was though.. I know Oakland had a lot of foul territory, but I’m thinking of an older park.. anyone?[/quote]
    Candlestick?

  • Squiddie | January 30, 2010 at 12:39 pm |

    [quote comment=”374984″]Veeck describes as one of his inspirations to the stadium apartment as groundskeeper Bob Dorr, who attatched a house to Wrigley Field.

    Anyone know of any other stadium residences?[/quote]
    Well, Bernie Brewer used to have a chalet in Milwaukee…

  • steve | January 30, 2010 at 12:40 pm |

    Nobody asked me but…
    CitiField is a perfect example of taking pieces from the other retro parks, and then making them the focal point of your new park. I purposely didn’t say incorporate, because they didn’t do that, they just took those pieces and haphazardly built a park around them. Just one man’s opinion, but CitiField is an visual mess. I agree about the new Twins park. It looks clean, and modern. Not messy and modern. Now if they had asked, I would have designed The New Shea to be just that…a modern version of the old park with the blue and orange shapes on the outside.
    But that’s just me.

  • M.Princip | January 30, 2010 at 12:49 pm |
  • mike 2 | January 30, 2010 at 12:52 pm |

    [quote comment=”374984″]Veeck describes as one of his inspirations to the stadium apartment as groundskeeper Bob Dorr, who attatched a house to Wrigley Field.

    Anyone know of any other stadium residences?[/quote]

    Harold Ballard had an apartment at Maple Leaf Gardens.

  • Jerico | January 30, 2010 at 12:52 pm |

    [quote comment=”374984″]Veeck describes as one of his inspirations to the stadium apartment as groundskeeper Bob Dorr, who attatched a house to Wrigley Field.

    Anyone know of any other stadium residences?[/quote]

    Didn’t Harold Ballard have a bunker at Maple Leaf (Make-Believe) Gardens?

  • leon | January 30, 2010 at 1:06 pm |

    [quote comment=”374984″]Veeck describes as one of his inspirations to the stadium apartment as groundskeeper Bob Dorr, who attatched a house to Wrigley Field.

    Anyone know of any other stadium residences?[/quote]

    This guy:

    http://en.wikipedia....

    had a place here:

    http://en.wikipedia....

  • Brad | January 30, 2010 at 1:10 pm |

    College basketball today, West Virginia in dark uniform at home, Louisville the road team in white.

  • pru | January 30, 2010 at 1:10 pm |

    [quote comment=”374953″]Terrific effort Phil!

    No city takes more care to incorporate history into its sports architecture than Indianapolis: Hinkle Fieldhouse, Conseco Fieldhouse and now Lucas Oil Stadium.

    Conseco is the best modern arena in the country … nostalgic with true history incorporated without being fake at all.

    Hinkle is the most under-appreciated venue, IMO (the Palestra, Cameron and MSG get all the love … but Hinkle has more character, with its windows). http://sportsillustr...

    Anyway, love the effort. It most certainly fits perfectly here within the aesthetics of athletics.

    College would be a bonanza – The Pit, the Rack in Oregon, Assembly Hall, Mackey Arena.

    Such a great, great subject![/quote]

    I’m going to go ahead and disagree. Indianapolis’ stadiums, with exception of Hinkle, aren’t so much historic-based as they are unimaginative (which matches the city;s personality IMO). Conseco is just ok, unless you go to an upper level, where the concourses have a capacity of 2. Lucas Oil looks like it was built in an old factory, both inside and out. With exception to the Lucas Oil endzone section, the rest of the place is a bunch of concrete and bricks with open space all around.

    I still can’t figure out how an engineering school, Purdue, thought it was a good idea to build a circular arena around a rectangular court (and I’m a Purdue grad). The only cool thing about Mackey is that it is below street level.

  • ShaunT | January 30, 2010 at 1:15 pm |

    Phil- LOVED the stadium post. just plain awesome!

  • JamesHayden | January 30, 2010 at 1:17 pm |

    Thanks for the comments on my Redskins designs – I also debated more “old gold” – either as trim (on the dark pants) or just substituting it for the yellow/gold – then I realized I had basically dresses the ‘skins just like Florida State (not necessarily a bad thing though)

    I’m liking the old stadium posts – I’m a bit too young for the era (RFK in DC, the Vet in Philly and Memorial in Bal’mer were the “old” ballparks I first went to in the early 80’s). Like most O’s fans, and pretty much everybody else, I thought it was really cool the first time I saw an “artist’s conception” of what would become Oriole Park at Camden Yards with all the old-style quirks and asymetrical field etc. Now I’m starting to pine for another “new” Comisky or KC Royals stadium for a change…

  • JimWa | January 30, 2010 at 1:18 pm |

    Sick child at home today with me … limited time … haven’t yet gotten into the “meat” of each stadium … but I can already tell you this is my FAVORITE Uniwatch posting of all time!!!

  • S. Bennett | January 30, 2010 at 1:26 pm |

    Sorry for dumping, but leave the Washingtons’ uni colours and designs alone. They’re aces as is.

    If you want to play with a new nickname and helmet logo, that’s cool. But the colours are GOLD (and not that stupid “Vegas Gold” either.

    SB

  • mike 2 | January 30, 2010 at 1:34 pm |

    [quote comment=”374992″][quote comment=”374984″]Veeck describes as one of his inspirations to the stadium apartment as groundskeeper Bob Dorr, who attatched a house to Wrigley Field.

    Anyone know of any other stadium residences?[/quote]

    Didn’t Harold Ballard have a bunker at Maple Leaf (Make-Believe) Gardens?[/quote]

    The bunker and the apartment were different – the apartment was where he lived (alone and with companions), the bunker was where Ballard and King Clancy watched the games.

    http://farm4.static....

    The bunker is the hole in the end wall directly above the first “A” in Ballard, above the corner golds and below the reds.

  • Jerico | January 30, 2010 at 1:39 pm |

    Wonderful post today, guys. Though I am partial to the likes of Wrigley, Fenway, and Yankee Stadium (circa 1960’s), my personal favorite is the LA Coliseum. The 251-foot left field fence with the 42-foot high O’Malley Screen…The 440-foot “power alley” in VERY distant right…Coming in through the Coliseum’s peristyle end and realizing that home plate is about 800 feet away…Vin Scully broadcasting from atop the track and field chute behind home plate to Angelenos sitting 90 rows up, wondering what the hell the boys are doing down there on the Coliseum floor…the list goes on and on.

    http://www.ballparks...

    In terms of arenas, they DO hold a significant place as the ways the “old barns” were constructed contributed mightily to the lore and success of the teams who played there. Boston Garden almost speaks for itself, with the uneven, dead-in-some-spots parquet floor and the equally uneven temperature inside the building. At Chicago Stadium, the arena’s construction, plus an organ capable of blowing the Stadium’s windows out during a Blackhawks game contributed to the noise factor for a long time–not to mention the Stadium’s stairway up to the rink/court that players had to navigate, the colder-than-normal basketball court the Bulls played on, and that the Stadium clock was analog until the late-1960’s. You also think about the marquee outside, and the thick cloud of smoke inside, at the old Madison Square Garden; the arches of the pre-1968 Montreal Forum (as well as its standing room inside), and you can go on with your own post about the arenas of old.

  • JTH | January 30, 2010 at 1:42 pm |

    [quote comment=”374995″]I still can’t figure out how an engineering school, Purdue, thought it was a good idea to build a circular arena around a rectangular court (and I’m a Purdue grad).[/quote]
    Say hello to Assembly Hall in Champaign on the campus of another Big Ten university known for its engineering school.

    As an IU alum, I’d like to chuckle, but our Assembly Hall has plenty of design flaws of its own.

  • JamesHayden | January 30, 2010 at 1:42 pm |

    BTW – There’s a really cool “old ballpark” thread over on baseball-fever:

    http://www.baseball-...

    Oh – and I forgot to mention my other “traditional Redskins old gold” influence – Sammy Baugh’s helmet in the HOF (which I don’t have a pic of for some reason).

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 1:50 pm |

    [quote comment=”374982″][quote comment=”374979″]…
    It’s easy to lump all the cookie-cutters into one, but in reality they had their differences. Three Rivers had a little bit of charm. Had they ripped out the turf and put in grass (and maybe knocked down a section) it could have still been a viable place to play…[/quote]

    Basically, the last few years of Riverfront (when Great American Ballpark was under construction).

    http://www.ballparks...

    Yeah, like that. Riverfront looked a lot better then.

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 1:54 pm |

    Mike Engle said:
    “I’m not even sure Jim Vilk would wear this thing”
    http://farm3.static....

    I don’t know…I may actually almost wear that.

  • timmy b | January 30, 2010 at 2:03 pm |

    In those ballparks of yore, I lliked those pitcher’s path from the mound to home plate, like you see in Detroit and Arizona today.

    I was also fascinated by what looked to be TWO third base paths at Forbes Field, when it was just the housing for the underground infield tarp that paralleled third base. And we hear all about the famed ivy-covered walls at the Friendly Confines, when in fact, Forbes had ivy-covered walls for a very long time as well, with the trees of neighboring Schenley Park offering one of the best outfield vistas for a ball park ever.

    Also, in the 1940’s there was a dirt ring around the Sportsman’s Park pitcher’s mound.

    And, the weird angles that the football fields contorted themselves at Wrigley Field, Forbes Field, Met Stadium, Comiskey Park, County Stadium, Fenway Park, Griffith Stadium, etc.

    Way to go, Phil.

  • Bill Radocy | January 30, 2010 at 2:06 pm |

    On Kaleb’s NFL retouches……excellent job! I like the Bills (beats what they’re wearing now) & Texans the best. Again, great job!

  • David Murphy | January 30, 2010 at 2:40 pm |

    Ponce de Leon Park in Atlanta was a minor league jewel, that annually played host to MLB teams traveling north from spring training. Ruth and Jackie Robinson played there in exhibitions, along with scores of future big leaguers and barnstorming Negro League teams. The most unique feature of ‘old Poncey’ was the lone magnolia tree on the faraway centerfield hill. A train track ran behind the rightfield fence. Look up the old home of the Crackers!

  • David Murphy | January 30, 2010 at 2:54 pm |

    And I’m only old enough (& not very well-traveled) to have seen games in old Comminsky, Busch Stadium in 1969, old Arlington Stadium, Shea, RFK, and Atlanta Stadium. Wrigley, Dodger, and Fenway as well.

  • Jet | January 30, 2010 at 3:02 pm |

    Hey Ricko, is today’s Benchie based on personal experience at the Deep Freeze?

  • towanda | January 30, 2010 at 3:04 pm |

    loved the old ballparks. more please!

  • LI Phil | January 30, 2010 at 3:04 pm |

    [quote comment=”375010″]Hey Ricko, is today’s Benchie based on personal experience at the Deep Freeze?[/quote]

    HAH!

    prolly moreso mine than his

  • Joe R | January 30, 2010 at 3:19 pm |

    As a Carolina Panthers fan I have to give the Panther’s re-design two huge thumbs down. There was a huge reason the Panther’s don’t wear actual Carolina blue. Half the state of NC hates the Tarholes! The silver is a great part of the uni removing it is like when Jacksonville removed the gold from their uniforms. If anything we just need to de-clutter the sleeves a little bit and get a logo not shaped like the outline of the two states. I bet someone was tickled pink with themselves when they came up with that gimmick thinking it was cleaver. Unfortunately it isn’t cleave it is clumsy and awkward.

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 3:21 pm |

    Relating to yesterday’s post on the Senior League…
    http://cgi.ebay.com/...

    —Ricko

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 3:23 pm |

    [quote comment=”375012″][quote comment=”375010″]Hey Ricko, is today’s Benchie based on personal experience at the Deep Freeze?[/quote]

    HAH!

    prolly moreso mine than his[/quote]

    What he said.

    —Ricko

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 3:26 pm |

    Another Senior League program…
    http://cgi.ebay.com/...

    —Ricko

  • Joe R | January 30, 2010 at 3:27 pm |

    On a positive not I did like the aim for consistency with the Browns and even like the Dallas re-design even though I think it’s too historic to actually change.

  • D. Hall | January 30, 2010 at 3:35 pm |

    Im a big fan of the old ballparks. I had the opportunity to work at the 3rd oldest ballpark that is still in use. It is Bosse Field in Evansville, Ind. It hosts an independent baseball team, the Evansville Otters and was where A League of Their Own was filmed. Great place to catch a game and some of the old signage that was used in the film is still up to give it the old time feel. Its not in a major city so many people forget that it exists, but it is a gem of a ballpark.

  • leon | January 30, 2010 at 3:38 pm |

    To the “Dead-skins” tweaker:
    I’ve never heard any of the native American symbols used over the years by the Skins referred to as “Chief Joseph”. Help me out with this one.
    (I don’t mean tell me who he was, but how it applies to the Washington team).
    BTW, if you are among the group who considers “Dead-skins” a “term of endearment”, I would enjoy seeing you use that in the presence of anyone associated with the organization.

  • LarryB | January 30, 2010 at 3:40 pm |

    Wow what a column today. I too had been fascinated by those old baseball parks.

    I just opened the site just now so it will take me a while to make it through all the neat things.

    When I was a kid and my dad too me to Forbes Field. I always liked to look in the Pirate yearbook at all the other stadiums.

  • Nick | January 30, 2010 at 3:52 pm |

    [quote comment=”374950″]Just added, first team picture for the Seattle Seahawks, before they ever played a pre-season game. I know this because Ahmad Rashad is in this pic., and Steve Largent is not. Look third from left, top row of players.[/quote]

    Gotta love those Dungard facemasks, as nothing says the cool part of 1970s football unis like Dungard facemasks ….

    Oh by the way, the Seahawks have DECALS on the helmets, disproving the theory that hey ever wore plain helmets in a real game. No they did not wear Silver Browns helmets for a regular season, or a single game.

  • pru | January 30, 2010 at 3:54 pm |

    [quote comment=\”375002\”][quote comment=\”374995\”]I still can\’t figure out how an engineering school, Purdue, thought it was a good idea to build a circular arena around a rectangular court (and I\’m a Purdue grad).[/quote]
    Say hello to Assembly Hall in Champaign on the campus of another Big Ten university known for its engineering school.

    As an IU alum, I\’d like to chuckle, but our Assembly Hall has plenty of design flaws of its own.[/quote]

    I’ve never noticed that before…I’m watching IU-Illinois right now and sure enough there is basically 4 vertical rows of people in the building that have a seat perpendicular to the court. My youngest sister currently goes to IU and I told her sometimes its better to not go to a game depending on where her seats are. Under the rafters is brutal.

  • Traxel | January 30, 2010 at 3:59 pm |

    [quote comment=”374951″][quote comment=”374941″]Houston, I’m looking at you.[/quote]

    damn jimbo, i could devote an entire post to how much i hate enron orange juice field…but i won’t

    the train is fine, i get it…but it’s just one of many bumperstickers — did they really need to load up the coal carrier with oranges???

    retractable roof? good, but how often can they really keep it open? and even when the can, don’t the pitchers bitch about it?

    roof closed? looks like a few other retractable roof parks (the old BOB, miller)

    outside view? looks like a dozen other convention centers/malls

    but what really bugs the shit out of me?

    tal’s hill…i kinda get what they were going for — but really? how long before someone really breaks a leg there? carlos beltran? not a fan…

    it’s like someone said, hey, tiger stadium has a flag pole in play and crosley field has a terrace … wouldn’t it be great to combine the two?

    i love the newer parks (especially compared to the concrete/astroturfed multi-purpose donuts), but please, for the love of christ…STOP PUTTING SHIT on the field that doesn’t belong

    /rant off[/quote]
    One more item on the Enron disaster, The length of the left field fence. I may have made this point before but when left handed relief pitchers hit opposite field home runs, the fence is too short. Leave it to the Yanks to equal the short dimensions.
    As for the train, I wouldn’t mind it but for one thing. When it is done, the homerun is over, it has to travel backwards, everyone watching, back into its garage. Dumb.

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 3:59 pm |

    For those who like really BIG football numbers…
    http://www.remembert...

    —Ricko

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 4:08 pm |

    [quote comment=”375024″]For those who like really BIG football numbers…
    http://www.remembert...

    —Ricko[/quote]

    #24 in front row is Fred “The Hammer” Williamson, later of motion picture, um…fame.

  • LI Phil | January 30, 2010 at 4:16 pm |

    [quote comment=”375023″]One more item on the Enron disaster, The length of the left field fence. I may have made this point before but when left handed relief pitchers hit opposite field home runs, the fence is too short.[/quote]

    not a fan of the crawford boxes ben?…maybe they should have put those on the train tracks

  • LarryB | January 30, 2010 at 4:19 pm |

    Here are about 15 scans from a Crosley Field book from library and then I just added some very old screen grabs of old parks from Baseball dvd

    http://picasaweb.goo...

    I love how the guys sat on top of fence

    http://lh4.ggpht.com...

    http://lh3.ggpht.com...

  • Alec | January 30, 2010 at 4:22 pm |

    [quote comment=”374941″]
    The forced quirkiness kinda bugs me. It seems like so many of the newer places are trying to cram the proverbial 10 pounds of shit into the 5 pound bag. Houston, I’m looking at you.

    [/quote]

    Houston has the forced dimensions due to the roof.

  • LI Phil | January 30, 2010 at 4:25 pm |

    [quote comment=”375027″]I love how the guys sat on top of fence

    http://lh4.ggpht.com...
    [/quote]

    great photo of the huntington aveune baseball grounds, larry

    if you check out this old post, and scroll past the main article (wonderful job by mike styczen on that btw)…the next section has some good photos of the huntington ave park

  • Nick | January 30, 2010 at 4:27 pm |

    [quote comment=”374984″]Veeck describes as one of his inspirations to the stadium apartment as groundskeeper Bob Dorr, who attatched a house to Wrigley Field.

    Anyone know of any other stadium residences?[/quote]

    I have read somewhere that when the Houston Astrodome first opened that there was a Judge Hofheinz – a former Mayor or head of the stadium commission or something – he was a pretty big deal at the time) that had an apartment built into the Astrodome that included box seats where he/they could watch the games.

    Does anyone besides me remember the omnipresent souvuniers and bumper sickers proclaiming the Astrodome to be the “Eigth Wonder of the World? we got to see these all the way in New Orleans in the late 1960s-early1970s.

  • LarryB | January 30, 2010 at 4:31 pm |

    [quote comment=”375029″][quote comment=”375027″]I love how the guys sat on top of fence

    http://lh4.ggpht.com...
    [/quote]

    great photo of the huntington aveune baseball grounds, larry

    if you check out this old post, and scroll past the main article (wonderful job by mike styczen on that btw)…the next section has some good photos of the huntington ave park[/quote]

    I just checked that old post out. I kind of remember it from before a little.

    Some of my screengrabs that were taken from Baseball part 1 they did not always say what was what.

    Just some wonderful old pictures today and also older links.

    Fun to imagine what it would be like to be there

  • Nick | January 30, 2010 at 4:37 pm |

    [quote comment=”375024″]For those who like really BIG football numbers…
    http://www.remembert...

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Wow. Had no clue that Bill Walsh – he of the Paul Brown progeny and West Coast offense and the 49er Dynasty, actually first coached under Hank Stram with the Dallas Texans!

    Thinking last night, when the AFL Dallas Texans moved to Kansas City to become the Chiefs, they kept essentially the same uniform, but switched their identity from essentally Cowboys (aren’t Texans really another word for Cowboys) to essentially Indians – as Chiefs are simply the leaders of the Indians. It took until last night for that to occur to me – in the context of keeping the same uni but a totally opposite identity.

    It is well documented that Lamar Hunt wanted
    to use Orange and Light Blue as the Dallas Texans’ original colors, but that Bud Adams’ Oilers beat him to the Light Blue, so he then chose Red and Yellow/Gold.

    Has anyone every seen a prototype or treatment of the Dallas Texans in their hoped-for “original” colors?

  • M.Princip | January 30, 2010 at 4:49 pm |

    [quote comment=”375024″]For those who like really BIG football numbers…
    http://www.remembert...

    —Ricko[/quote]

    00 spotting. NFL needs to bring back the double 0.

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 4:53 pm |

    “Has anyone every seen a prototype or treatment of the Dallas Texans in their hoped-for “original” colors?”

    I seriously doubt they ever got that far. Houston jumped on the powder blue early on. I’ve told this story before. Was related to me by the Oilers’ first PR man. He was thinking black and gold (oil being “black gold” and all), but Bud Adams pointed to the turquoise ring he always wore and said, “Nope, they’re gonna wear this color.”

    —Ricko

  • Nick | January 30, 2010 at 4:56 pm |

    I still say that an interesting take – maybe the MOST interesting take – on the entire subject of uni-watching is often the least explored- here or anywhere else – and that is HOW teams decide on WHO choses their unis and HOW the unis get chosen.

    I ran into Saints GM Mickey Loomis late night after the Saints beat the Vikings to go to he Superbowl, and as we both waited for the valet I had him pretty much to myself, able to quiz him about my beloved Saints.

    Of course, I asked him about the most important aspect in the entirety of Saints fandom – ditching the Black Leotard pants. After graciously, patiently enduring my rather mild heartfelt tirade on what an abomination the Saints wearing Black leotards say about the cheapness and unprofessionalism of that look, the desecration of team tradition, and the fact that the Black leotards are simply one more step in the direction toward the end of the good part of Western Civilization, he was really not able to give me a complete answer on who in the organization decides what uni the team will wear -stating that the coach decides sometimes, the players decide at other times.

    He said that the team must inform the of the NFL by a certain deadline which jerseys that they wear on which date, but that they can decide much later on which pants to wear.

    He said that the Players favor Black jerseys, Black Pants, but that the “team” (Front Office, Owners, Coaches?) favor White jerseys, Gold pants.

    I got in a word about darkening the Gold, as Vegas Gold is wayyyyy toooooo close to White and does not contrast that well with teams that regularly wear White jerseys. He kind of agreed, and spared me the frequent rote explanation on how they are at the whims of the manufacterer.

    With that, he was gone, and I forgot to ask him why Reggie Bush never returns kickoffs – which is the second-most important question on Saints fandom.

  • LarryB | January 30, 2010 at 4:57 pm |

    [quote comment=”375034″]”Has anyone every seen a prototype or treatment of the Dallas Texans in their hoped-for “original” colors?”

    I seriously doubt they ever got that far. Houston jumped on the powder blue early on. I’ve told this story before. Was related to me by the Oilers’ first PR man. He was thinking black and gold (oil being “black gold” and all), but Bud Adams pointed to the turquoise ring he always wore and said, “Nope, they’re gonna wear this color.”

    —Ricko[/quote]

    No I thought about that when I read the story a few weeks ago or heard the story.

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 4:58 pm |

    Hunt DID use powder and orange for his Dallas Tornado soccer team.

    All the histories show them in royal and red, though. But when Kyle Rote, Jr. played for them they wore powder and orange. Don’t know much about the soccer leagues. Was there more than one incarnation of the Tornado?

    —Ricko

  • M.Princip | January 30, 2010 at 4:59 pm |

    [quote comment=”375021″][quote comment=”374950″]Just added, first team picture for the Seattle Seahawks, before they ever played a pre-season game. I know this because Ahmad Rashad is in this pic., and Steve Largent is not. Look third from left, top row of players.[/quote]

    Gotta love those Dungard facemasks, as nothing says the cool part of 1970s football unis like Dungard facemasks ….

    [/quote]

    Could not agree more Nick. #16’s helmet, front row third from left.

  • UmpLou | January 30, 2010 at 5:00 pm |

    A little late to the game, but the old ballpark thread is AWESOME. Never got to go either Ebbets or the PG, as I was born in 59. VERY appropriate to use the classic pic of Casey with the prehistoric shades at Ebbets – Casey hit the first ever HR at Ebbets.and in fact, hit the first TWO WS dingers at Yankee Stadium too! When you consider he managed the last ever game at the PG, and then, of course the first game ever at Shea, it reminds you just how deeply tied the Ol’ Perfesser was to NYC baseball.

    My sister lives up in Rochester, and I got to go several times to the late, great Silver Stadium up there. Considering that Rochester was one of the Cardinals AAA clubs for many years, then the Orioles AAA team for just as long, it is amazing the number of great ballplayers that passed through that park. One of the great things about Silver was that the clubhouses were literally off one of the main portals, and players would occasionally hang out outside during rain delays – got to talk to Butch Hobson when he was playing out the string with the Clippers one such time.

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 5:01 pm |

    Orange doesn’t track well, but that’s powder blue.
    http://www.nasljerse...
    http://www.hickokspo...

    —Ricko

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 5:02 pm |

    See? Orange.
    http://www.nasljerse...

    —Ricko

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 5:05 pm |

    Uni Tweaks:

    James, good stuff.

    Kaleb, collectively, good job. Individually:
    RAVENS – No.
    BILLS – YES!
    PANTHERS – I like, but since half the state hates UNC, go back to the original shade of blue.
    BENGALS – No.
    BROWNS – Yes.
    COWBOYS – Yes.
    LIONS – Yes. Lose the alternate and the period would be replaced by an exclamation point.
    TEXANS – I think the Oilers blue was a little darker.
    CHIEFS – I’m a shoulder loops fan, so you think I would like these, but it just doesn’t look right on the Chiefs. Plus I like the team’s red road pants. Good effort, though.
    VIKINGS – Better than what they have.
    SAINTS – Very nice!
    GIANTS – Pretty good.
    STEELERS – Thou shalt not add another helmet sticker. Like the logo patch on the pants, though. The rest looks like an old Saints uni with a different shade of gold.
    SEAHAWKS – YES! Don’t knock my neon, though. ;)
    BUCS – Still holding out for creamsicle orange.
    TITANS – Yes.

  • LarryB | January 30, 2010 at 5:07 pm |

    Not 00 but I wonder why this Frankford Yellow Jacket coach had this 3 digit number.

    http://lh3.ggpht.com...

    http://lh4.ggpht.com...

  • LarryB | January 30, 2010 at 5:10 pm |

    Check out guy with megaphone behind home plate. In Philly.

    http://lh5.ggpht.com...

  • LI Phil | January 30, 2010 at 5:11 pm |

    [quote comment=”375043″]Not 00 but I wonder why this Frankford Yellow Jacket coach had this 3 digit number.

    http://lh3.ggpht.com...

    http://lh4.ggpht.com...

    perhaps it’s an early shout out for information and referrals to health and human service organizations

  • M.Princip | January 30, 2010 at 5:23 pm |

    [quote comment=”375044″]Check out guy with megaphone behind home plate. In Philly.

    http://lh5.ggpht.com...

    Simply brilliant!

  • Giancarlo | January 30, 2010 at 5:28 pm |

    [quote comment=”374987″][quote comment=”374978″]Looking at the old Polo Grounds always amazes me. It’s hard to believe a major league team played there for so many years with those seriously odd dimensions, especially the short sides. The other ballfield that I think is really weird is the one with the massively vast foul territory around home plate – I can’t remember which field that was though.. I know Oakland had a lot of foul territory, but I’m thinking of an older park.. anyone?[/quote]
    Candlestick?[/quote]
    That is spacious, but Candlestick dates back to 1960 and what I saw was, I think, 1930s to 1950s era. It was a set-up where it looked like even fans in the front row box had terrible seats.

  • BurghFan | January 30, 2010 at 5:30 pm |

    I have read somewhere that when the Houston Astrodome first opened that there was a Judge Hofheinz – a former Mayor or head of the stadium commission or something – he was a pretty big deal at the time) that had an apartment built into the Astrodome that included box seats where he/they could watch the games.

    He owned the team and was the driving force behind the Dome.

    Does anyone besides me remember the omnipresent souvuniers and bumper sickers proclaiming the Astrodome to be the “Eigth Wonder of the World? we got to see these all the way in New Orleans in the late 1960s-early1970s.

    I don’t remember the tschotschkes, but I do remember all the hype. The one time I was there (1997), I was impressed by how miserably humid baseball in Houston would be without a dome. The rest of the stadium was just a concrete ashtray with a roof.

  • BurghFan | January 30, 2010 at 5:31 pm |

    Check out guy with megaphone behind home plate.

    PA announcer before amplified public address systems.

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 5:37 pm |

    [quote comment=”375049″]Check out guy with megaphone behind home plate.

    PA announcer before amplified public address systems.[/quote]

    Yup. White Sox had a guy doing that at the first TBTC game.

    —Ricko

  • TD | January 30, 2010 at 5:50 pm |

    MLB Network is running Game 1 of the 1979 NLCS (Seaver vs. Candelaria).. its bumblebee heaven. Pirates in the black tops, yellow pants, black stirrups, gold pillcaps with black brims and gold helmets.

    A couple cool uni notes:

    Catcher Ed Ott had the NOB in HUGE letters, while Candelaria has the compressed NOB. They take up roughly the same space.

    Candy has the gold Stargell Stars on his black brim – I presume they only had them in gold and he decided to get creative.

  • Nick | January 30, 2010 at 5:53 pm |

    [quote comment=”375048″]I have read somewhere that when the Houston Astrodome first opened that there was a Judge Hofheinz – a former Mayor or head of the stadium commission or something – he was a pretty big deal at the time) that had an apartment built into the Astrodome that included box seats where he/they could watch the games.

    He owned the team and was the driving force behind the Dome.

    Does anyone besides me remember the omnipresent souvuniers and bumper sickers proclaiming the Astrodome to be the “Eigth Wonder of the World? we got to see these all the way in New Orleans in the late 1960s-early1970s.

    I don’t remember the tschotschkes, but I do remember all the hype. The one time I was there (1997), I was impressed by how miserably humid baseball in Houston would be without a dome. The rest of the stadium was just a concrete ashtray with a roof.[/quote]

    Read accounts of the pre-Astrodome Colt 45’s playing games in dreadful humidity outdoors, with mosquitos and bugs all over the players. Supposedly the most miserable place to play in the majors – and in the pre-Colt 45’s minors.

    Never witnessed it, but read a bit about it.

  • JamesHayden | January 30, 2010 at 5:55 pm |

    [quote comment=”375019″]To the “Dead-skins” tweaker:
    I’ve never heard any of the native American symbols used over the years by the Skins referred to as “Chief Joseph”. Help me out with this one.
    (I don’t mean tell me who he was, but how it applies to the Washington team).
    BTW, if you are among the group who considers “Dead-skins” a “term of endearment”, I would enjoy seeing you use that in the presence of anyone associated with the organization.[/quote]

    According to a story I heard someplace – George Preston Marshall at some point paid the Nez Perce tribe for the “rights” to use the likeness of Chief Joseph (the famous Nez Perce chief who attempted to lead his people to Canada in 1876). I’m not sure the exact source of the story, and I’ve never seen it in a book or referenced in any way during the great “pc” debate over the Redskins’ name. Since I’m a student of history (especially the post-Civil War/Indian War era) I’ve always thought that it would have be cool if the story is true and therefore have always referred to the modern logo (as opposed to the cartooney 1930’s logo) as Chief Joseph.

    And I’ve referred to the term “Dead-skins” to Sam Huff himself and, being a lifelong ‘skins fan I feel the right is earned (like being a West Virginian, like Sam, I can tell West Virginia jokes). I’ve been know to call the hockey team the “Crapitols” (my dad worked for a person friend of Abe Polen – free tickets circa 1977!) and the current Super Bowl team whose games I used to attend in Baltimore (unlike most people, apparently) as the “Dolts”…

  • Nick | January 30, 2010 at 5:59 pm |

    [quote comment=”375038″][quote comment=”375021″][quote comment=”374950″]Just added, first team picture for the Seattle Seahawks, before they ever played a pre-season game. I know this because Ahmad Rashad is in this pic., and Steve Largent is not. Look third from left, top row of players.[/quote]

    Gotta love those Dungard facemasks, as nothing says the cool part of 1970s football unis like Dungard facemasks ….

    [/quote]

    Could not agree more Nick. #16’s helmet, front row third from left. [/quote]

    One more thing to like about Hank Stram. When he took over the Saints in 1976, he put almost the entire team in BLACK Dungard facemaks. A couple of linemen hung on to their older style Riddells, etc. – which also were then Black to match the new ones, but I would say 90% of the players went into Dungard facemasks, including Archie Manning, twho at some time or another wore about 12 different facemasks in a 14 year career.

    One could argue that after the Saints original 1967-1968 unis, the Saints’ unis peaked during the Hank Stram era – At lease the Dark jersey, white pants combo – without the Bum Phillips-era San Diego numerals.

  • Jeff P | January 30, 2010 at 6:26 pm |

    As a panthers fan, I’ll echo the comments on the Color. It was chosen VERY specifically to be a compromise shade of blue between Duke’s Royal and UNC’s sky blue (You know, the one known as “Carolina blue” becuase of the school?).

    Also, I don’t like the changes to the striping pattern. Our traditional UCLA stripes survive on a few players, and we’re the only team that has that on any player. And the authentic jerseys still have it.

    And unlike the previous poster, I like the logo. Simple, classy and I like the shape.

    Helmet I’m mixed on. I like the silver pants for home and alt, and a white helmet would look screwy with them. But the silver looks somewhat screwy with the whites. Ideally the NFL would let us have a white and a silver, but if not the silver is probably safer.

    Oh, and I like our pants. Forget the colors.

    In summary, the Panthers unis are about perfect to me. Only thing I would do is ditch the black and make that blue the full time home uni.

  • Ryan B. | January 30, 2010 at 6:41 pm |

    Like many parks of yesteryear, it [Ebbets Field]. . . featured . . . the iconic Abe Stark (“Hit Sign Win Suit”) sign…

    I’m sure I’m not the first to look at that scoreboard and immediately think, “Wow, what a rough day for the Reds,” am I?

  • Mike Engle | January 30, 2010 at 6:43 pm |

    [quote comment=”375055″]As a panthers fan, I’ll echo the comments on the Color. It was chosen VERY specifically to be a compromise shade of blue between Duke’s Royal and UNC’s sky blue (You know, the one known as “Carolina blue” becuase of the school?).

    Also, I don’t like the changes to the striping pattern. Our traditional UCLA stripes survive on a few players, and we’re the only team that has that on any player. And the authentic jerseys still have it.

    And unlike the previous poster, I like the logo. Simple, classy and I like the shape.

    Helmet I’m mixed on. I like the silver pants for home and alt, and a white helmet would look screwy with them. But the silver looks somewhat screwy with the whites. Ideally the NFL would let us have a white and a silver, but if not the silver is probably safer.

    Oh, and I like our pants. Forget the colors.

    In summary, the Panthers unis are about perfect to me. Only thing I would do is ditch the black and make that blue the full time home uni.[/quote]
    Carolina Panthers look good, agreed.
    I don’t think there is a place for the white pants. Silver pants work with the silver helmet, and all three jerseys. (And if you think they would look too Oakland Raiders or Detroit Lions, that’s OK, it’s about time an NFL team have that look.)
    One more thing: I can’t help but think there are too many Panthers on the uniform, that all look alike. One universal panther for the helmet, jersey sleeve, AND pants? Too much. Easy fix: no logo on pants. (And due to inconsistency issues, it’s been “seen” before. Looks fine. Just make it official.)

  • M.Princip | January 30, 2010 at 6:44 pm |

    [quote comment=”375054″][quote comment=”375038″][quote comment=”375021″][quote comment=”374950″]Just added, first team picture for the Seattle Seahawks, before they ever played a pre-season game. I know this because Ahmad Rashad is in this pic., and Steve Largent is not. Look third from left, top row of players.[/quote]

    Gotta love those Dungard facemasks, as nothing says the cool part of 1970s football unis like Dungard facemasks ….

    [/quote]

    Could not agree more Nick. #16’s helmet, front row third from left. [/quote]

    One more thing to like about Hank Stram. When he took over the Saints in 1976, he put almost the entire team in BLACK Dungard facemaks. A couple of linemen hung on to their older style Riddells, etc. – which also were then Black to match the new ones, but I would say 90% of the players went into Dungard facemasks, including Archie Manning, twho at some time or another wore about 12 different facemasks in a 14 year career.

    One could argue that after the Saints original 1967-1968 unis, the Saints’ unis peaked during the Hank Stram era – At lease the Dark jersey, white pants combo – without the Bum Phillips-era San Diego numerals.[/quote]

    Yep, I loved the black dungards, however, my favorite masks, that Archie wore, had to be the DG 205 , and the Schutt
    710.

  • LI Phil | January 30, 2010 at 6:45 pm |

    [quote comment=”375056″]Like many parks of yesteryear, it [Ebbets Field]. . . featured . . . the iconic Abe Stark (“Hit Sign Win Suit”) sign…

    I’m sure I’m not the first to look at that scoreboard and immediately think, “Wow, what a rough day for the Reds,” am I?[/quote]

    heh…nope…in fact, that very scoreboard was used in one my first ever “guess the game” bits (scroll down, it’s after the “squiddie files”)…im pretty sure we were still posting the guesses in the comments, but if you wanna play along without reading the comments…

  • aflfan | January 30, 2010 at 6:51 pm |

    WTF are the Leafs wearing tonignt? It looks like some kind of camoflague sweater. Holy Crap, way to mess with a classic jersey.

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 7:06 pm |

    For all the Shane Falco fans out there (or fans of Brooke Langton, the leading lady, for that matter), THE REPLACEMENTS is on TBS at 9 p.m. EST.

    Unis, overall, ain’t too bad in that film (‘cept I think just about every team has some kind of shoulder loops).

    Now there’s an interesting question. Which fictional football film has, overall, the best unis (meaning all the teams represented)?

    THE PROGRAM? THE REPLACEMENTS? ANY GIVEN SUNDAY? SEMI-TOUGH? NORTH DALLAS FORTY?

    Another film?

    —Ricko

    —Ricko

  • LI Phil | January 30, 2010 at 7:11 pm |

    [quote comment=”375061″]Which fictional football film has, overall, the best unis (meaning all the teams represented)?[/quote]

    wouldn’t say ALL the teams were outstanding, but the dallas knights (here is the helmet) were pretty freakin awesome…who knew there were templars in texas?

  • ScottyM | January 30, 2010 at 7:13 pm |

    pru, you’re missing the point … and perhaps not paying attention to your surroundings:

    Conseco is a visual wonder, it’s a museum with a basketball arena attached to it… from the manual out-of-town scoreboards, to the 30s lighting fixtures, to the museum-quality uniforms, warmups, shoes, etc., and old-school ads painted onto real brick on display in the concourses… there is NO modern arena in the U.S. that has integrated its civic/statewide history into an arena like that one. I’ll take narrow concourses with character long before a big, open concourse of antiseptic video boards.

    And, Mackey Arena? I’m not sure you’re clearly understanding the point of “aesthetic.” There is nary a single bad seat in that joint. Not one. It’s an engineering marvel to fit 14,123 seats into THAT small footprint. With absolutely perfect sightlines. Add interesting tidbits like:
    –the history of how dark it used to be (with only the court lit up to provide a superior shooting environment) … which changed in the late 80s with the onset of ESPN coverage.
    –The LOUDNESS due to a metal dome with NO baffles. I’ve been in Cameron, the Dean Dome, among many others … no place I’ve been gets as ear-piercing loud as Mackey (perhaps the Pit?).
    –The barren nature of the concourse and seating environment … which was a nod to Purdue’s conservative spending (place cost $7 million to build!).

    Some of these college joints (Minney’s Barn, Toledo’s Glass Bowl, Akron’s Rubber Bowl, the Yale Bowl) have such great, great history … similar to the Ebbets, Crosleys, Shibes, without the professional hype behind them.

  • Ricko | January 30, 2010 at 7:20 pm |

    [quote comment=”375062″][quote comment=”375061″]Which fictional football film has, overall, the best unis (meaning all the teams represented)?[/quote]

    wouldn’t say ALL the teams were outstanding, but the dallas knights (here is the helmet) were pretty freakin awesome…who knew there were templars in texas?[/quote]

    Not to be confused with the REAL Dallas Knights.
    http://www.dallaskni...

    —Ricko

  • aflfan | January 30, 2010 at 7:26 pm |

    [quote comment=”375060″]WTF are the Leafs wearing tonignt? It looks like some kind of camoflague sweater. Holy Crap, way to mess with a classic jersey.[/quote]

    Must have just been for the warm ups because they are back in blues for the game.

  • Jeff P | January 30, 2010 at 7:34 pm |

    [quote comment=”375057″][quote comment=”375055″]As a panthers fan, I’ll echo the comments on the Color. It was chosen VERY specifically to be a compromise shade of blue between Duke’s Royal and UNC’s sky blue (You know, the one known as “Carolina blue” becuase of the school?).

    Also, I don’t like the changes to the striping pattern. Our traditional UCLA stripes survive on a few players, and we’re the only team that has that on any player. And the authentic jerseys still have it.

    And unlike the previous poster, I like the logo. Simple, classy and I like the shape.

    Helmet I’m mixed on. I like the silver pants for home and alt, and a white helmet would look screwy with them. But the silver looks somewhat screwy with the whites. Ideally the NFL would let us have a white and a silver, but if not the silver is probably safer.

    Oh, and I like our pants. Forget the colors.

    In summary, the Panthers unis are about perfect to me. Only thing I would do is ditch the black and make that blue the full time home uni.[/quote]
    Carolina Panthers look good, agreed.
    I don’t think there is a place for the white pants. Silver pants work with the silver helmet, and all three jerseys. (And if you think they would look too Oakland Raiders or Detroit Lions, that’s OK, it’s about time an NFL team have that look.)
    One more thing: I can’t help but think there are too many Panthers on the uniform, that all look alike. One universal panther for the helmet, jersey sleeve, AND pants? Too much. Easy fix: no logo on pants. (And due to inconsistency issues, it’s been “seen” before. Looks fine. Just make it official.)[/quote]

    Silver pants would look really wacky with the white jersey. I have serious problems with two different lights being uses as primary elements in a uniform. It just looks bad. White jersey, white pants, or a dark. No silver. Or Yellow. And before you ask, yes, I do think the packers look bad on the road with the yellows.

    White on white= good.
    White and a different light= bad.

    Silver helmet with white and white: Bearable, since the NFL has that stupid rule. White would be preferable.

    As for logos on the pants, I couldn’t care less about those.

  • M.Princip | January 30, 2010 at 7:42 pm |

    [quote comment=”375053″][quote comment=”375019″]To the “Dead-skins” tweaker:
    I’ve never heard any of the native American symbols used over the years by the Skins referred to as “Chief Joseph”. Help me out with this one.
    (I don’t mean tell me who he was, but how it applies to the Washington team).
    BTW, if you are among the group who considers “Dead-skins” a “term of endearment”, I would enjoy seeing you use that in the presence of anyone associated with the organization.[/quote]

    According to a story I heard someplace – George Preston Marshall at some point paid the Nez Perce tribe for the “rights” to use the likeness of Chief Joseph (the famous Nez Perce chief who attempted to lead his people to Canada in 1876). I’m not sure the exact source of the story, and I’ve never seen it in a book or referenced in any way during the great “pc” debate over the Redskins’ name. Since I’m a student of history (especially the post-Civil War/Indian War era) I’ve always thought that it would have be cool if the story is true and therefore have always referred to the modern logo (as opposed to the cartooney 1930’s logo) as Chief Joseph.

    And I’ve referred to the term “Dead-skins” to Sam Huff himself and, being a lifelong ‘skins fan I feel the right is earned (like being a West Virginian, like Sam, I can tell West Virginia jokes). I’ve been know to call the hockey team the “Crapitols” (my dad worked for a person friend of Abe Polen – free tickets circa 1977!) and the current Super Bowl team whose games I used to attend in Baltimore (unlike most people, apparently) as the “Dolts”…[/quote]

    I always knew the Redskins logo design, side profile Indian inside dreamcatcher, as being based off of the Indian head nickel. Which was designed by James Earl Fraser, and was a composite portrait of three famous Native Americans.

  • katie | January 30, 2010 at 7:53 pm |

    I was looking at an info page about an exhibition at the Wexner Center for the Arts at Ohio State called Hard Targets, and one of the images was this:
    http://wexarts.org/d...

    Sadly, it doesn’t give a description of the image or anything.

  • Taxman | January 30, 2010 at 8:02 pm |

    [quote comment=”374986″]More fun from the Life archives.

    It’s 1958 and you’re a Colts fan. The team is playing the Giants up at Yankee Stadium. What do you do?

    Take a special train to New York

    Make sure you have plenty of Natty Bo and some ice

    Maybe some Seagram’s

    And some smokes

    You’ll need music for the train ride

    Get a big Colts emblem to wave in the stands

    Make sure you have some cheerleaders

    Ride the New York subway while wearing a box and holding a sign

    Pray the Colts don’t break your heart

    Enjoy the game[/quote]
    Thanks for posting these. I was born in 1959, but brought up on this religion. Note that the beer was actually several locally brewed favorites including American Beer and Arrow 77. My grandfather was a Arrow 77 guy. When he quit drinkingin his old age I think they went out of business.

  • mike 2 | January 30, 2010 at 8:06 pm |

    [quote comment=”375065″][quote comment=”375060″]WTF are the Leafs wearing tonignt? It looks like some kind of camoflague sweater. Holy Crap, way to mess with a classic jersey.[/quote]

    Must have just been for the warm ups because they are back in blues for the game.[/quote]

    I’m not watching the game but according to their website they’re raising funds for military families tonight (their website is redone with digital camo as well).

  • aflfan | January 30, 2010 at 8:12 pm |

    [quote comment=”375070″][quote comment=”375065″][quote comment=”375060″]WTF are the Leafs wearing tonignt? It looks like some kind of camoflague sweater. Holy Crap, way to mess with a classic jersey.[/quote]

    Must have just been for the warm ups because they are back in blues for the game.[/quote]

    I’m not watching the game but according to their website they’re raising funds for military families tonight (their website is redone with digital camo as well).[/quote]

    That would explain it. I saw the had guys repeling from the rafters and Johnny Bower in his WWII uniform deliviering the game puck. I had the sound down for most of it because I was on the phone taking down basketball scores.

  • Komet17 | January 30, 2010 at 8:15 pm |

    [quote comment=”375002″][quote comment=”374995″]I still can’t figure out how an engineering school, Purdue, thought it was a good idea to build a circular arena around a rectangular court (and I’m a Purdue grad).[/quote]
    Say hello to Assembly Hall in Champaign on the campus of another Big Ten university known for its engineering school.

    As an IU alum, I’d like to chuckle, but our Assembly Hall has plenty of design flaws of its own.[/quote]

    Illinois’s Assembly Hall is a horrible place to watch a basketball game–every seat feels like it is a long way from the court. In the upper section, you don’t even feel like you’re seeing the game in real time.

  • Jon | January 30, 2010 at 8:39 pm |

    [quote comment=”374940″]The Jeff said…

    “Imagine if the NBA didn’t have standard courts. What if in New York you had a 25ft 3point line and in Miami it was only 22.5ft? That hardly seems like a good thing to me.”

    Key difference. Every player shoots at the same basket. Not every player is a home run hitter.

    It is possible to win a baseball game without hitting a home run. It isn’t Home Run Derby; there are many combinations of ways to score a “run”. Cannot win a basketball game without making at least a free throw.

    (As I said earlier, the home run is not the central issue in baseball. It is not home run or nothing. That’s Ring-the-Bell-with-the-Big-Hammer-at-the-County Fair.)

    —Ricko[/quote]

    First time contributer, here. I’ve thought about this before- another thing to remember is that at least 90% of a baaseball game has nothing to do with the outfield fence, and more than half takes place in the infield, which is standard 90 feet to 1st, 60.5 to the plate on all ballparks from the age of 13 on.

  • James Hayden | January 30, 2010 at 8:46 pm |

    [quote comment=”375067″][quote comment=”375053″][quote comment=”375019″]To the “Dead-skins” tweaker:
    I’ve never heard any of the native American symbols used over the years by the Skins referred to as “Chief Joseph”. Help me out with this one.
    (I don’t mean tell me who he was, but how it applies to the Washington team).
    BTW, if you are among the group who considers “Dead-skins” a “term of endearment”, I would enjoy seeing you use that in the presence of anyone associated with the organization.[/quote]

    According to a story I heard someplace – George Preston Marshall at some point paid the Nez Perce tribe for the “rights” to use the likeness of Chief Joseph (the famous Nez Perce chief who attempted to lead his people to Canada in 1876). I’m not sure the exact source of the story, and I’ve never seen it in a book or referenced in any way during the great “pc” debate over the Redskins’ name. Since I’m a student of history (especially the post-Civil War/Indian War era) I’ve always thought that it would have be cool if the story is true and therefore have always referred to the modern logo (as opposed to the cartooney 1930’s logo) as Chief Joseph.

    And I’ve referred to the term “Dead-skins” to Sam Huff himself and, being a lifelong ‘skins fan I feel the right is earned (like being a West Virginian, like Sam, I can tell West Virginia jokes). I’ve been know to call the hockey team the “Crapitols” (my dad worked for a person friend of Abe Polen – free tickets circa 1977!) and the current Super Bowl team whose games I used to attend in Baltimore (unlike most people, apparently) as the “Dolts”…[/quote]

    I always knew the Redskins logo design, side profile Indian inside dreamcatcher, as being based off of the Indian head nickel. Which was designed by James Earl Fraser, and was a composite portrait of three famous Native Americans.[/quote]

    I stand corrected.

    Like I said, it was a story (myth? legend?) I heard someplace, again not sure where/when, and, like I said, it would have been cool if true. It wouldn’t be too much of a surprise if the source was George Preston Marshall – based on his rep as a showman and well known gift of “gab”.

    On a related topic – I guess it’s no true that the Dodgers moved from Brooklyn because they were offended by long-suffering fans referring to them as “da’ Bums!” ;)

  • The Hemogoblin | January 30, 2010 at 8:57 pm |

    Thank you all for sending me the links and information in emails. I really appreciate it… (and I’ll read them as soon as this KU/KSU game is over…)

    Kenny

  • leon | January 30, 2010 at 9:04 pm |

    [quote comment=”375053″][quote comment=”375019″]To the “Dead-skins” tweaker:
    I’ve never heard any of the native American symbols used over the years by the Skins referred to as “Chief Joseph”. Help me out with this one.
    (I don’t mean tell me who he was, but how it applies to the Washington team).
    BTW, if you are among the group who considers “Dead-skins” a “term of endearment”, I would enjoy seeing you use that in the presence of anyone associated with the organization.[/quote]

    According to a story I heard someplace – George Preston Marshall at some point paid the Nez Perce tribe for the “rights” to use the likeness of Chief Joseph (the famous Nez Perce chief who attempted to lead his people to Canada in 1876). I’m not sure the exact source of the story, and I’ve never seen it in a book or referenced in any way during the great “pc” debate over the Redskins’ name. Since I’m a student of history (especially the post-Civil War/Indian War era) I’ve always thought that it would have be cool if the story is true and therefore have always referred to the modern logo (as opposed to the cartooney 1930’s logo) as Chief Joseph.

    And I’ve referred to the term “Dead-skins” to Sam Huff himself and, being a lifelong ‘skins fan I feel the right is earned (like being a West Virginian, like Sam, I can tell West Virginia jokes). I’ve been know to call the hockey team the “Crapitols” (my dad worked for a person friend of Abe Polen – free tickets circa 1977!) and the current Super Bowl team whose games I used to attend in Baltimore (unlike most people, apparently) as the “Dolts”…[/quote]

    Well, of course it’s a free country and you can say or tweak most anything you want. However, you have confused me over your reference to the logos. If you are going to reference George Preston Marshall, well, he died in 1969, before any “Indian Head logo” appeared on their helmets: the “cartooney” logos of the 1930’s, which GPM would have had some say in appeared only on the jerseys, either sleeves or front. The “modern logo”, as you refer to it was introduced by George Allen in 1972 and was based on a Federal design although probably not the Indian Head nickel as it went out of circulation in 1938. BTW, the head on that coin was, in fact, inspired by 3 famous Native americans, none of whom was Chief Joseph. So you can call it Chief Joseph if that is your wish, but your history is fuzzy at best. If GPM paid someone, it resulted in the “cartooney” logo of the 30’s you referenced and not the modern one you wish to apply this moniker to. But that doesn’t mean you can’t call it anything you wish. Just as you can use tired knockoffs to refer to any sports team. And by the way, anyone can tell West Virginia jokes, not just West Virginians. And nobody has to “earn” the right to call any sports team anything they want: it just seems kind of childish.

  • interlockingtc | January 30, 2010 at 9:09 pm |

    Great post today, Phil.

  • Frank from B-more | January 30, 2010 at 9:15 pm |

    [quote comment=”374949″]Nice job with those uniforms Kaleb. I especially liked the Ravens set; adding the burgundy and the B logo. Maybe adding in, some fashion, the MD flag elements to that B logo could be pretty slick?

    Good stuff with James Hayden’s writeup on his Redskin’s concepts. Like the idea of using that number font; i.e. 33. Especially dig the dark jersey with gold, or, white pants.[/quote]

    Love the ballpark pictures.

    Nice work Kaleb but, NO WAY!!!! Ravens should never wear Burgandy (Redskin colors) Purple and Black are the perfect colors for the Ravens.

  • pru | January 30, 2010 at 9:17 pm |

    [quote comment=”375063″]pru, you’re missing the point … and perhaps not paying attention to your surroundings:

    Conseco is a visual wonder, it’s a museum with a basketball arena attached to it… from the manual out-of-town scoreboards, to the 30s lighting fixtures, to the museum-quality uniforms, warmups, shoes, etc., and old-school ads painted onto real brick on display in the concourses… there is NO modern arena in the U.S. that has integrated its civic/statewide history into an arena like that one. I’ll take narrow concourses with character long before a big, open concourse of antiseptic video boards.

    And, Mackey Arena? I’m not sure you’re clearly understanding the point of “aesthetic.” There is nary a single bad seat in that joint. Not one. It’s an engineering marvel to fit 14,123 seats into THAT small footprint. With absolutely perfect sightlines. Add interesting tidbits like:
    –the history of how dark it used to be (with only the court lit up to provide a superior shooting environment) … which changed in the late 80s with the onset of ESPN coverage.
    –The LOUDNESS due to a metal dome with NO baffles. I’ve been in Cameron, the Dean Dome, among many others … no place I’ve been gets as ear-piercing loud as Mackey (perhaps the Pit?).
    –The barren nature of the concourse and seating environment … which was a nod to Purdue’s conservative spending (place cost $7 million to build!).

    Some of these college joints (Minney’s Barn, Toledo’s Glass Bowl, Akron’s Rubber Bowl, the Yale Bowl) have such great, great history … similar to the Ebbets, Crosleys, Shibes, without the professional hype behind them.[/quote]

    We are going to have to agree to disagree…Conseco may be “aesthetic” to you, but it is wildly impractical. “Visual wonder” maybe, but terrible in actual uses. I’m not a fan of looking at all of the beautiful brick and throwback signs for 20 minutes while trying to get something to eat/drink because 4 people in line fills the hall.

    Also, congratulations on being to so many arenas. However, during the late 90’s here was only one section for students in the “lower level.” In the height if Purdue/IU games was nowhere near deafening due to the aging John Purdue Club members having 95% of lower seats. My freshmen-junior year seats were in a “corner” three rows from the top. They were not good seats. Actually, not even decent seats.

    While you think it is aesthetically pleasing, I think Mackey is the result of short-sighted planning. Actually, you hit the nail on the head with bringing up Purdue’s “conservative” spending. Unlike my buddies whose donations to Louisville have contributed to the school having some of the the top facilities in the country, my dollars go to resurfacing the floor more often than usual because the team practices on it due to a lack of a practice facility.

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 9:34 pm |

    [quote comment=”375062″][quote comment=”375061″]Which fictional football film has, overall, the best unis (meaning all the teams represented)?[/quote]

    wouldn’t say ALL the teams were outstanding, but the dallas knights (here is the helmet) were pretty freakin awesome…who knew there were templars in texas?[/quote]

    You like that?

    Here you go, folks – a uni even I wouldn’t wear. Yuck.

  • M.Princip | January 30, 2010 at 9:35 pm |

    [quote comment=”375078″][quote comment=”374949″]Nice job with those uniforms Kaleb. I especially liked the Ravens set; adding the burgundy and the B logo. Maybe adding in, some fashion, the MD flag elements to that B logo could be pretty slick?

    Good stuff with James Hayden’s writeup on his Redskin’s concepts. Like the idea of using that number font; i.e. 33. Especially dig the dark jersey with gold, or, white pants.[/quote]

    Love the ballpark pictures.

    Nice work Kaleb but, NO WAY!!!! Ravens should never wear Burgandy (Redskin colors) Purple and Black are the perfect colors for the Ravens.[/quote]

    Even though I like the Ravens set Kaleb did, I would have to agree with Frank, the Ravens are perfect in purple and black.

  • M.Princip | January 30, 2010 at 9:40 pm |

    [quote comment=”375081″][quote comment=”375078″][quote comment=”374949″]Nice job with those uniforms Kaleb. I especially liked the Ravens set; adding the burgundy and the B logo. Maybe adding in, some fashion, the MD flag elements to that B logo could be pretty slick?

    Good stuff with James Hayden’s writeup on his Redskin’s concepts. Like the idea of using that number font; i.e. 33. Especially dig the dark jersey with gold, or, white pants.[/quote]

    Love the ballpark pictures.

    Nice work Kaleb but, NO WAY!!!! Ravens should never wear Burgandy (Redskin colors) Purple and Black are the perfect colors for the Ravens.[/quote]

    Even though I like the Ravens set Kaleb did, I would have to agree with Frank, the Ravens are perfect in purple and black.[/quote]

    Another reason to root for the Ravens. Jim Zorn just hired as their new qb coach. Joe Flacco is one of my favorite qbs out there now, so I’m really diggin’ this news.

    http://sports.espn.g...

  • JTH | January 30, 2010 at 9:43 pm |

    [quote comment=”375028″][quote comment=”374941″]
    The forced quirkiness kinda bugs me. It seems like so many of the newer places are trying to cram the proverbial 10 pounds of shit into the 5 pound bag. Houston, I’m looking at you.

    [/quote]

    Houston has the forced dimensions due to the roof.[/quote]
    They have to have a hill, a flagpole on the field of play, a choo-choo and that balcony because of the roof? Funny, because I don’t see any of those things in Phoenix, Seattle, Toronto or Milwaukee.

  • Kaptain K | January 30, 2010 at 9:45 pm |

    [quote comment=”375054″][quote comment=”375038″][quote comment=”375021″][quote comment=”374950″]Just added, first team picture for the Seattle Seahawks, before they ever played a pre-season game. I know this because Ahmad Rashad is in this pic., and Steve Largent is not. Look third from left, top row of players.[/quote]

    Gotta love those Dungard facemasks, as nothing says the cool part of 1970s football unis like Dungard facemasks ….

    [/quote]

    Could not agree more Nick. #16’s helmet, front row third from left. [/quote]

    One more thing to like about Hank Stram. When he took over the Saints in 1976, he put almost the entire team in BLACK Dungard facemaks. A couple of linemen hung on to their older style Riddells, etc. – which also were then Black to match the new ones, but I would say 90% of the players went into Dungard facemasks, including Archie Manning, twho at some time or another wore about 12 different facemasks in a 14 year career.

    One could argue that after the Saints original 1967-1968 unis, the Saints’ unis peaked during the Hank Stram era – At lease the Dark jersey, white pants combo – without the Bum Phillips-era San Diego numerals.[/quote]

    Hank Stram would have had to take great care of Old Gold and Black: http://www.helmethut...

    The high school he attended in Gary, IN is Lew Wallace High, and the Hornets’ team colors are also Old Gold and Black.

    I wish Stram’s ghost would invade Nike headquarters and banish ‘Vegas gold’ forever!

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 9:48 pm |

    Used to think I’d like to see a game at the Polo Grounds, but after today’s look at these parks, i think I’d rather have gone to Ebbet’s Field or Sportsman’s Park.

    Boo to Connie Mack and his spite fence. If you’re gonna put a park in the middle of a neighborhood, throw the neighbors a bone and let them see the games from home.

  • Meghan | January 30, 2010 at 9:49 pm |

    I loved the Ballparks. Wish I could have been around to see Ebbots Field for real.

    I grew up watching baseball games at Memorial Stadium. I loved that place, there was so much history there.

    I do not agree with changing the Raven’s colors. A main reason they are called the Ravens is because of Edgar Allen Poe and to keep in line with the naming of teams after birds (EX:Orioles). The mascots names are Edgar, Allen, and Poe (well, they have those real ravens that they gave names like freedom or something like that but I digress). The Vikings have purple, and they have a heinous uniform in my opinion. I’m not a fan of the fact that you can’t mirror the logo on the helmet because of that stupid B, so go nuts with that!

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 9:57 pm |

    Ricko said:
    “So far I haven’t heard very many people longing for the days (or the feeling) of the massive, round, perfect places 35 miles out in the suburbs.”

    If you want to include arenas, then put me on the top of that short list. I’ll take the old Richfield Coliseum over Quicken Loans Arena ANYDAY. The Cavs went from being my favorite NBA team to just another team I sort of root for after they moved.

  • LI Phil | January 30, 2010 at 9:57 pm |

    [quote comment=”375086″]The Vikings have purple, and they have a heinous uniform in my opinion.[/quote]

    well put ;)

  • LI Phil | January 30, 2010 at 10:04 pm |

    [quote comment=”375080″]Here you go, folks – a uni even I wouldn’t wear. Yuck.[/quote]

    yes, and coming from you that means a lot

  • aflfan | January 30, 2010 at 10:09 pm |

    [quote comment=”375087″]Ricko said:
    “So far I haven’t heard very many people longing for the days (or the feeling) of the massive, round, perfect places 35 miles out in the suburbs.”

    If you want to include arenas, then put me on the top of that short list. I’ll take the old Richfield Coliseum over Quicken Loans Arena ANYDAY. The Cavs went from being my favorite NBA team to just another team I sort of root for after they moved.[/quote]

    One of my major disappointments in life is that I never saw a game at Olympia Stadium. To hear the stories my grandpa told me about watching games from there, I missed a great time.

  • aflfan | January 30, 2010 at 10:11 pm |

    Flames are wearing throwbacks tonight against Edmonton. Too bad the Oilers are not doing the same.

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 10:15 pm |

    [quote comment=”374938″]I was bummed when when the Cardinals built the newest Busch Stadium. I was never a fan of the cookie cutters. However, I did like the idea of being the only cookie cutter. Plus, the rennovations that were made in 1996 (grass, green concrete instead of blue, etc.) created a nice atmosphere. Our new stadium is just a cookie cutter of of the Camden Yards craze of the mid-nineties.[/quote]

    Agreed.

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 10:16 pm |

    [quote comment=”375089″][quote comment=”375080″]Here you go, folks – a uni even I wouldn’t wear. Yuck.[/quote]

    yes, and coming from you that means a lot[/quote]

    Okay, I only actually wore the second one…

  • Taxman | January 30, 2010 at 10:19 pm |

    Super Bowl highlights marathon on NFL Network. Right now SB V – considered a horrendously sloppy game, but a masterpiece of NFL Films. Cowboys in their old bad luck Royal jerseys. Crushing defense played by both teams on the cement turf of the Orange Bowl. The flurry of hits leading up to the final turnover by Dallas and the Winning FG by O’Brien is intense.

  • David Murphy | January 30, 2010 at 10:21 pm |

    Ricko, I was always a big fan of the Replacements, perhaps for the same reasons as you, it sounds like. The unis weren’t too bad, and that’s always a major consideration. Watched Semi-Tough for the first time in a while not long ago, and had forgotten how plain ALL the unis were. Striped tube socks!

    Back in the day there were several movies that nailed the unis…Paper Lion, Brian’s Song, Everyone’s All-American, Rudy.

  • JTH | January 30, 2010 at 10:24 pm |

    [quote comment=”375071″][quote comment=”375070″][quote comment=”375065″][quote comment=”375060″]WTF are the Leafs wearing tonignt? It looks like some kind of camoflague sweater. Holy Crap, way to mess with a classic jersey.[/quote]

    Must have just been for the warm ups because they are back in blues for the game.[/quote]

    I’m not watching the game but according to their website they’re raising funds for military families tonight (their website is redone with digital camo as well).[/quote]

    That would explain it. I saw the had guys repeling from the rafters and Johnny Bower in his WWII uniform deliviering the game puck. I had the sound down for most of it because I was on the phone taking down basketball scores.[/quote]
    The Leafs are not the only team to do this. At least two others have as well(Ducks & Blackhawks being the ones I know of).

  • aflfan | January 30, 2010 at 10:26 pm |

    [quote comment=”375096″][quote comment=”375071″][quote comment=”375070″][quote comment=”375065″][quote comment=”375060″]WTF are the Leafs wearing tonignt? It looks like some kind of camoflague sweater. Holy Crap, way to mess with a classic jersey.[/quote]

    Must have just been for the warm ups because they are back in blues for the game.[/quote]

    I’m not watching the game but according to their website they’re raising funds for military families tonight (their website is redone with digital camo as well).[/quote]

    That would explain it. I saw the had guys repeling from the rafters and Johnny Bower in his WWII uniform deliviering the game puck. I had the sound down for most of it because I was on the phone taking down basketball scores.[/quote]
    The Leafs are not the only team to do this. At least two others have as well(Ducks & Blackhawks being the ones I know of).[/quote]

    That is exactly what they looked like tonight when I saw them.

  • Kek | January 30, 2010 at 10:34 pm |

    musical note as number

    http://twitpic.com/1...

  • aflfan | January 30, 2010 at 10:35 pm |

    [quote comment=”375098″]musical note as number

    http://twitpic.com/1...

    MNAN?

  • Ryan B. | January 30, 2010 at 10:38 pm |

    Was just watching the Super Bowl IV highlights on the NFL Network and noticed that the Chiefs and Vikings wore, respectively, AFL and NFL patches on their jerseys. For as many times as I’ve seen these highlights, I’d never noticed this before. Wouldn’t that make this the earliest known instance of “special game” patches being worn in any professional/college sport? Anyone know of an earlier example?

    I can’t find a better image of the Vikings patch than the one linked (you can just barely tell there’s something on the Viking to the far right of the image), but the Vikings’ NFL patch is on the left shoulder, between the neckline and the UCLA-style stripes. The Chiefs’ AFL patch is on upper left sleeve, above the numerals.

  • Teebz | January 30, 2010 at 10:39 pm |

    [quote comment=”375060″]WTF are the Leafs wearing tonignt? It looks like some kind of camoflague sweater. Holy Crap, way to mess with a classic jersey.[/quote]

    The same jerseys that the Ducks and Blackhawks wore to honour the troops. Being that it is “Hockey Day In Canada”, they chose to honour the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces during warmups. They accepted donations all night long for families of military peoples (as stated above).

  • Teebz | January 30, 2010 at 10:40 pm |

    [quote comment=”375098″]musical note as number

    http://twitpic.com/1...

    He sang the Canadian anthem about as poorly as I’ve heard. Lose the jersey, don’t give up your day job.

  • JTH | January 30, 2010 at 10:40 pm |

    [quote comment=”375099″][quote comment=”375098″]musical note as number

    http://twitpic.com/1...

    MNAN?[/quote]
    Number ♪ in your program, number 1 in your heart?

    Or would it be number ⅛ in your program?

  • JTH | January 30, 2010 at 10:41 pm |

    [quote comment=”375103″]He sang the Canadian anthem about as poorly as I’ve heard.[/quote]
    Check your voicemail.

  • JTH | January 30, 2010 at 10:43 pm |

    [quote comment=”375105″][quote comment=”375103″]He sang the Canadian anthem about as poorly as I’ve heard.[/quote]
    Check your voicemail.[/quote]
    Kidding.

    Seriously, though. Was it worse than this?

  • Teebz | January 30, 2010 at 10:44 pm |

    [quote comment=”375105″][quote comment=”375103″]He sang the Canadian anthem about as poorly as I’ve heard.[/quote]
    Check your voicemail.[/quote]

    The voicemail that’s full that I never empty because I hate people who leave voicemails saying “call me” when that’s exactly why YOU HAVE A PHONE?

    I hate voicemail. LOL

  • Teebz | January 30, 2010 at 10:45 pm |

    [quote comment=”375106″][quote comment=”375105″][quote comment=”375103″]He sang the Canadian anthem about as poorly as I’ve heard.[/quote]
    Check your voicemail.[/quote]
    Kidding.

    Seriously, though. Was it worse than this?[/quote]

    Close, but no cigar.

    The Canadian anthem is not a Christmas carol. LOL

  • Taxman | January 30, 2010 at 10:46 pm |

    [quote comment=”375100″]Was just watching the Super Bowl IV highlights on the NFL Network and noticed that the Chiefs and Vikings wore, respectively, AFL and NFL patches on their jerseys. For as many times as I’ve seen these highlights, I’d never noticed this before. Wouldn’t that make this the earliest known instance of “special game” patches being worn in any professional/college sport? Anyone know of an earlier example?

    I can’t find a better image of the Vikings patch than the one linked (you can just barely tell there’s something on the Viking to the far right of the image), but the Vikings’ NFL patch is on the left shoulder, between the neckline and the UCLA-style stripes. The Chiefs’ AFL patch is on upper left sleeve, above the numerals.[/quote]

    NFL50 – AFL10 anniversary patches.

  • aflfan | January 30, 2010 at 10:46 pm |

    [quote comment=”375106″][quote comment=”375105″][quote comment=”375103″]He sang the Canadian anthem about as poorly as I’ve heard.[/quote]
    Check your voicemail.[/quote]
    Kidding.

    Seriously, though. Was it worse than this?[/quote]

    I made it about 10 seconds into the song and had to KILL IT! WOOF!

  • aflfan | January 30, 2010 at 10:48 pm |

    [quote comment=”375102″][quote comment=”375060″]WTF are the Leafs wearing tonignt? It looks like some kind of camoflague sweater. Holy Crap, way to mess with a classic jersey.[/quote]

    The same jerseys that the Ducks and Blackhawks wore to honour the troops. Being that it is “Hockey Day In Canada”, they chose to honour the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces during warmups. They accepted donations all night long for families of military peoples (as stated above).[/quote]

    Thanks Teebz,

    I knew you would know the scoop. I was on the phone most of the pre-game with teams reporting basketball scores for the websites I run. I didn’t get the scoop from the TV.

  • Alec | January 30, 2010 at 10:48 pm |

    [quote comment=”375083″]
    They have to have a hill, a flagpole on the field of play, a choo-choo and that balcony because of the roof? Funny, because I don’t see any of those things in Phoenix, Seattle, Toronto or Milwaukee.[/quote]

    Funny, none of those ballparks were confined by having to use the footprint of a previously existing train station.

    Now you’re down to a flagpole that’s 430 feet from home and a hill that helps keep players from running into it(something’s I’ve done running down a fly and wouldn’t suggest doing.)

  • LI Phil | January 30, 2010 at 10:56 pm |

    [quote comment=”375100″]Was just watching the Super Bowl IV highlights on the NFL Network and noticed that the Chiefs and Vikings wore, respectively, AFL and NFL patches on their jerseys. For as many times as I’ve seen these highlights, I’d never noticed this before. Wouldn’t that make this the earliest known instance of “special game” patches being worn in any professional/college sport? Anyone know of an earlier example?

    I can’t find a better image of the Vikings patch than the one linked (you can just barely tell there’s something on the Viking to the far right of the image), but the Vikings’ NFL patch is on the left shoulder, between the neckline and the UCLA-style stripes. The Chiefs’ AFL patch is on upper left sleeve, above the numerals.[/quote]

    here’s a good look at the afl 10th year patch

    here’s a closeup

    im not sure these were special patches JUST for the super bowl … but the interesting thing is i can’t find any “afl 10” patches anywhere (as there was ONLY one other game played in 1970 that wasn’t the super bowl (pre merger, that is) — the AFC 1969 championship game, which took place on january 4, 1970 — chiefs defeated the raiders to go to SB IV)…they didn’t wear the afl 10 patch during the 1969 season, near as i can tell

    hmmmm…nfl is probaly

  • JTH | January 30, 2010 at 11:00 pm |

    [quote comment=”375112″][quote comment=”375083″]
    They have to have a hill, a flagpole on the field of play, a choo-choo and that balcony because of the roof? Funny, because I don’t see any of those things in Phoenix, Seattle, Toronto or Milwaukee.[/quote]

    Funny, none of those ballparks were confined by having to use the footprint of a previously existing train station.

    Now you’re down to a flagpole that’s 430 feet from home and a hill that helps keep players from running into it(something’s I’ve done running down a fly and wouldn’t suggest doing.)[/quote]
    No. Because the property was had a train station on it in no way explains why you need 37 pieces of flair.

    And now I’m up to at least five other parks that don’t have that crap. No roof, but Oriole Park at Camden Yards — where was that built?

  • JTH | January 30, 2010 at 11:01 pm |

    [quote comment=”375108″][quote comment=”375106″][quote comment=”375105″][quote comment=”375103″]He sang the Canadian anthem about as poorly as I’ve heard.[/quote]
    Check your voicemail.[/quote]
    Kidding.

    Seriously, though. Was it worse than this?[/quote]

    Close, but no cigar.

    The Canadian anthem is not a Christmas carol. LOL[/quote]
    If carolers showed up in front of my house singing that, they’d be liable to end up with a figgy pudding enema.

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 11:01 pm |

    Figures, an Eagle that I liked, and now he’s gone. Farewell, Tom Brookshier.
    http://sports.espn.g...
    Always wanted Pat Summerall and him to do just one more game together on TV.

  • LI Phil | January 30, 2010 at 11:02 pm |

    dammit…cut off there

    nfl probably has the NFL50 patch, which they would wear as a helmet decal in the pro bowl (more on that tomorrow)

  • Teebz | January 30, 2010 at 11:05 pm |

    [quote comment=”375115″]
    If carolers showed up in front of my house singing that, they’d be liable to end up with a figgy pudding enema.[/quote]

    If carolers showed up singing that in front of my house, I’d shoot them all and take a silent night.

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 11:08 pm |

    Notre Dame in black?
    http://espn-i.starwa...

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 11:15 pm |

    Oy, USC in black and Oregon still in pink.
    http://espn-i.starwa...

    You wanna REALLY raise money for cancer research? Tell the fans, “Dig deep, or these teams are going to wear this stuff all the time.” They’d be rolling in dough.

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 11:17 pm |

    Teach the children to wear team colors, and there may be hope for our future yet:
    http://espn.go.com/e...

  • The Hemogoblin | January 30, 2010 at 11:19 pm |

    [quote comment=”375120″]Oy, USC in black and Oregon still in pink.
    http://espn-i.starwa...

    You wanna REALLY raise money for cancer research? Tell the fans, “Dig deep, or these teams are going to wear this stuff all the time.” They’d be rolling in dough.[/quote]

    Yeah. That was a lot of fun to attend, regardless of the uniforms. But I got called a misogynist by my boss on Thursday night after the game because I said that the team didn’t look right wearing pink. It was 1:30 AM, I didn’t even bother defending myself. It just drives me nuts when UO wears colors that aren’t school colors… Our green and yellow are obnoxious enough that we should never have to deviate from them to be recognized.

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 11:20 pm |

    Except for JTH, striped pants really do make you look taller:
    http://espn-i.starwa...

  • Eric B in KC | January 30, 2010 at 11:21 pm |

    As a native St. Louisian, I’ve always been interested in Sportsman’s Park. When I toured the new Busch Stadium last summer, our tour guide also told us about the old park and how things shook out when the Busch family bought the Cardinals. I posted this synopsis on another website…

    When Mr. Busch bought the Cardinals, they were playing in old Sportsman’s Park, owned by the St. Louis Browns. He told the city that he wouldn’t buy the team unless he could buy the stadium; he paid rent to nobody, especially a competing team. He also told the city he would pay them an extra $250,000 if the Cards were the only team in town within six months. Less than six months later, the city forced the sale of the Browns to interests in Baltimore and they became the Orioles. Mr. Busch wanted to rename the stadium Budweiser Stadium. Major League Baseball wouldn’t allow a stadium at that time to be named after an alcoholic beverage and denied his request. He then asked if he could name it Busch Stadium after his family. MLB agreed and less than six months later, Mr. Busch introduced Busch Beer to the public.

  • David Murphy | January 30, 2010 at 11:28 pm |

    That year the NFL teams wore the NFL50 patches all year long…and for the most part they all looked good. I don’t recall the AFL wearing the AFL10 patches until the Super Bowl.

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 11:31 pm |

    Kentucky State Thorobreds (their spelling) decided that name’s too big for their hoops unis:
    http://espn-i.starwa...

    That school sound familiar?
    http://farm3.static....
    We included them in our look at Division II football unis.

  • Alec | January 30, 2010 at 11:33 pm |

    [quote comment=”375114″]

    Now you’re down to a flagpole that’s 430 feet from home and a hill that helps keep players from running into it(something’s I’ve done running down a fly and wouldn’t suggest doing.)[/quote]
    No. Because the property was had a train station on it in no way explains why you need 37 pieces of flair.

    [/quote]
    You’re not paying attention. The park in Houston is built inside Union Station. The main entrance is the original Union Station main entrance. The seats in the left field wall(along with the team offices) are part of the original station.

    So they have a train and the Brewers have a guy slide into a beer mug and the Mets have an apple that comes out of a hat. Whoop-de-damn-do.

  • LI Phil | January 30, 2010 at 11:37 pm |

    [quote comment=”375122″]It just drives me nuts when UO wears colors that aren’t school colors.[/quote]

    so then…pretty much whenever they take the diamond, field or court then?

  • The Hemogoblin | January 30, 2010 at 11:39 pm |

    [quote comment=”375128″][quote comment=”375122″]It just drives me nuts when UO wears colors that aren’t school colors.[/quote]

    so then…pretty much whenever they take the diamond, field or court then?[/quote]

  • The Hemogoblin | January 30, 2010 at 11:40 pm |

    as I meant to say:

    It’s kind of like having to watch your favorite baseball team platoon a lousy outfielder and a washed-up former infielder at first base. You still root for them, but you just die a little bit inside every game.

  • David Murphy | January 30, 2010 at 11:44 pm |

    At least your baseball stadium doesn’t have a giant Coke bottle that lights up, like Turner Field. But that’s nothing compared to the huge Chickfila cow next to it…that does the tomahawk chop!

    I enjoyed my Minutemaid Park experience. But the Chickfila foul poles were a bit much. ChickfilA is great, except for it’s in-park advertising!

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 11:46 pm |

    Doesn’t look as if they swap helmet decals in the Senior Bowl anymore:
    http://espn-i.starwa...

    I’d rather see these unis in the Pro Bowl instead of the “Let’s try to please both Ricko and The Jeff” messes the NFL stars are going to wear:
    http://espn-i.starwa...

    I found seven UnderArmor logos. Can you find any more?
    http://espn-i.starwa...

  • David Murphy | January 30, 2010 at 11:50 pm |

    Here’s the LA Rams wearing the NFL50 patch. You can barely make out the same patch on the Falcon. Hope this works!

    http://farm4.static....

  • Mike Engle | January 30, 2010 at 11:51 pm |

    [quote comment=”375132″]Doesn’t look as if they swap helmet decals in the Senior Bowl anymore:
    http://espn-i.starwa...

    I’d rather see these unis in the Pro Bowl instead of the “Let’s try to please both Ricko and The Jeff” messes the NFL stars are going to wear:
    http://espn-i.starwa...

    I found seven UnderArmor logos. Can you find any more?
    http://espn-i.starwa...
    Keep counting. It’s nine, at least.
    Jersey
    Right bicep band
    Waist towel * 2
    Pupello pouch
    One on each sock
    One on each shoe
    Potentially another visible UA logo on Tebow’s right shoe, near the little toes, plus the shoe straps probably say Under Armour.

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 11:53 pm |

    [quote comment=”375134″][quote comment=”375132″]Doesn’t look as if they swap helmet decals in the Senior Bowl anymore:
    http://espn-i.starwa...

    I’d rather see these unis in the Pro Bowl instead of the “Let’s try to please both Ricko and The Jeff” messes the NFL stars are going to wear:
    http://espn-i.starwa...

    I found seven UnderArmor logos. Can you find any more?
    http://espn-i.starwa...
    Keep counting. It’s nine, at least.
    Jersey
    Right bicep band
    Waist towel * 2
    Pupello pouch
    One on each sock
    One on each shoe
    Potentially another visible UA logo on Tebow’s right shoe, near the little toes, plus the shoe straps probably say Under Armour.[/quote]

    Ah, wasn’t sure about the shoes. Shoulda figured.

  • JTH | January 30, 2010 at 11:58 pm |

    [quote comment=”375127″]
    You’re not paying attention. The park in Houston is built inside Union Station. The main entrance is the original Union Station main entrance. The seats in the left field wall(along with the team offices) are part of the original station.[/quote]
    Because you have yet to provide any logical reason as to why any and all of these gimmicks are actually necessary, it’s because I’m not paying attention? Really?
    [quote comment=”375127″]
    So they have a train and the Brewers have a guy slide into a beer mug and the Mets have an apple that comes out of a hat. Whoop-de-damn-do[/quote]
    Sadly, no beer mug at Miller Park.

  • JimV19 | January 30, 2010 at 11:59 pm |

    I know it’s been going on since the 90s, but I still think shorts with black socks only looks right on really old men:
    http://espn-i.starwa...
    Otherwise, I dig those unis.

  • Alec | January 31, 2010 at 12:01 am |

    Why is anything necessary? Why do they even bother playing baseball?

    Oh yeah, to entertain people.

  • JimV19 | January 31, 2010 at 12:08 am |

    And black socks don’t look right when you’re performing interpretive dance, either:
    http://espn-i.starwa...

  • David Murphy | January 31, 2010 at 12:18 am |
  • Ryan B. | January 31, 2010 at 12:41 am |

    Thanks for all the NFL 50th anniversary patch images. Can’t believe I’d never seen that before.

    After seeing those, I’m quite certain that’s what I saw the Vikings wearing in the SBIV footage.

  • JTH | January 31, 2010 at 12:46 am |

    [quote comment=”375138″]Why is anything necessary? Why do they even bother playing baseball?

    Oh yeah, to entertain people.[/quote]
    Yeah, I pity the poor bastards that had to sit through that terribly unentertaining perfect game last year. I mean, Dewayne Wise had to run across a perfectly flat outfield to make that catch. *Yaaaawn* You can cut the ennui with a knife.

    Look, if you like the Juice Box for its quirks, that’s fine. I’m not trying to begrudge you that. Just don’t try to tell me that they had no choice but to incorporate those features into the park as they were building it because of how the property had formerly been used.

    To me it’s like the attractions at Disney’s Animal Kingdom. Everything looks reasonably authentic and the attention to detail is fantastic, but you know it’s just a facade.

  • JimV19 | January 31, 2010 at 12:46 am |

    [quote comment=”375140″]A few more…

    http://prod.static.v...

    http://www.21nfl.com...

    http://www.retrothro...

    http://www.freebase....

    In that second link, it looks as if the patch says, “SO NFL.”

  • Bryan Moore | January 31, 2010 at 1:09 am |

    Would someone please be able to explain the “green” in the Cowboy’s pants to me. I need to profess either ignorance or a slight case of being colorblind as I never saw the “green” in the different shade.

  • mike 2 | January 31, 2010 at 2:05 am |

    [quote comment=”375108″][quote comment=”375106″][quote comment=”375105″][quote comment=”375103″]He sang the Canadian anthem about as poorly as I’ve heard.[/quote]
    Check your voicemail.[/quote]
    Kidding.

    Seriously, though. Was it worse than this?[/quote]

    Close, but no cigar.

    The Canadian anthem is not a Christmas carol. LOL[/quote]

    I’ve seen Paul Brandt live in small venues a number of times and he’s normally excellent. I don’t know what the hell that was.

  • rpm | January 31, 2010 at 2:35 am |

    sorry i am only getting to it now, but today was best ever phil. awetsatic!

  • James Hayden | January 31, 2010 at 6:48 am |

    [quote comment=”375076″][quote comment=”375053″][quote comment=”375019″]To the “Dead-skins” tweaker:
    I’ve never heard any of the native American symbols used over the years by the Skins referred to as “Chief Joseph”. Help me out with this one.
    (I don’t mean tell me who he was, but how it applies to the Washington team).
    BTW, if you are among the group who considers “Dead-skins” a “term of endearment”, I would enjoy seeing you use that in the presence of anyone associated with the organization.[/quote]

    According to a story I heard someplace – George Preston Marshall at some point paid the Nez Perce tribe for the “rights” to use the likeness of Chief Joseph (the famous Nez Perce chief who attempted to lead his people to Canada in 1876). I’m not sure the exact source of the story, and I’ve never seen it in a book or referenced in any way during the great “pc” debate over the Redskins’ name. Since I’m a student of history (especially the post-Civil War/Indian War era) I’ve always thought that it would have be cool if the story is true and therefore have always referred to the modern logo (as opposed to the cartooney 1930’s logo) as Chief Joseph.

    And I’ve referred to the term “Dead-skins” to Sam Huff himself and, being a lifelong ‘skins fan I feel the right is earned (like being a West Virginian, like Sam, I can tell West Virginia jokes). I’ve been know to call the hockey team the “Crapitols” (my dad worked for a person friend of Abe Polen – free tickets circa 1977!) and the current Super Bowl team whose games I used to attend in Baltimore (unlike most people, apparently) as the “Dolts”…[/quote]

    Well, of course it’s a free country and you can say or tweak most anything you want. However, you have confused me over your reference to the logos. If you are going to reference George Preston Marshall, well, he died in 1969, before any “Indian Head logo” appeared on their helmets: the “cartooney” logos of the 1930’s, which GPM would have had some say in appeared only on the jerseys, either sleeves or front. The “modern logo”, as you refer to it was introduced by George Allen in 1972 and was based on a Federal design although probably not the Indian Head nickel as it went out of circulation in 1938. BTW, the head on that coin was, in fact, inspired by 3 famous Native americans, none of whom was Chief Joseph. So you can call it Chief Joseph if that is your wish, but your history is fuzzy at best. If GPM paid someone, it resulted in the “cartooney” logo of the 30’s you referenced and not the modern one you wish to apply this moniker to. But that doesn’t mean you can’t call it anything you wish. Just as you can use tired knockoffs to refer to any sports team. And by the way, anyone can tell West Virginia jokes, not just West Virginians. And nobody has to “earn” the right to call any sports team anything they want: it just seems kind of childish.[/quote]

    Yes, the whole discussion is completely childish.

    I agree with your points. I used the “D” word as a bit of a joke in an e-mail introducing the uni-tweak and, apparently, it has caused some major offense for some reason. I, naturally, became defensive when called on it and reacted (and I honestly think anybody involved with the Redskins organization has more important things to fret about than a harmless nickname) and am quite frankly a bit disappointed that it has completely sidetracked any discussion of the tweaks. I’m not a fan of knockoff nicknames either and apparently my sense of humor and attempt to make a joke about the whole thing did not come thru clearly in my post.

    BTW – the alternate joke I didn’t (but should have)used: “You’re offended by the term ‘Dead-skins’ – you should hear what I call the Cowboys!”

    As far as Chief Joseph – I have admitted that the story was something I heard somewhere and am apparently mistaken – there was no relationship between the design for the logo of George Preston Marshall’s Redskins and the Nez Perse tribe. However, Edward Bennett Williams, who owned the team when the current logo was introduced, was very conscience of (lets face it, involved in) current events – which in the early 70’s included the American Indian Movement’s protests (Alcatraz, Wounded Knee II, the takeover of the BIA HQ in DC) and would have been conscious of Native American concerns over the team name/logo. It’s obvious that the Native American depicted on the current logo is far more realistic and asthetic than previous logos, so, maybe, just maybe, my mistaken myth/legend about Chief Joseph involved EBW. Or not.

    At this point if I ever was to send in another tweak, the email will say: “Look. New Ravens unis. Pretty colors.”

    Now can we please get back to discussing unis?????

  • NJBaseball | January 31, 2010 at 10:28 pm |

    Great stuff. While I don’t have every video game, I don’t believe I’ve ever had one that has allowed users to play at Ebbets Field. I wish they did. I’ve always had this suspicion that had I grown up in the 40s or 50s, I’d have been a Dodgers fan. (I grew up in the ’80s as a Mets fan.)

    One thing, though: The last two versions of the Polo Grounds were on that site across from Yankee Stadium: http://en.wikipedia....; the first two were north of Central Park.

    I would add Forbes Field to my top 5. That one has long fascinated me, in part because there are still parts of it left that you can visit on the U. of Pittsburgh campus. Part of the outfield wall remains, markers show the left-field portion that was torn down and where Bill Mazeroski’s homer cleared it, and home plate remains encased in plexiglass inside a nearby campus building.