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Uni Watch Profiles: Terry Proctor

Terry Proctor November 06, 2008.jpg

For months now I’ve been running contributions from sporting goods maven Terry Proctor, who worked in the biz for decades and probably knows more that industry than the rest of us put together. I interviewed him way back in November but it’s taken me until now to get around to transcribing the tape. With apologies to Terry for the lengthy wait, here’s his long-delayed Uni Watch Profiles moment.

Uni Watch: You live in the Rochester area, right?

Terry Proctor: Yes, just below Rochester, just west of the Finger Lakes.

UW: Did you grow up in that area as well?

TP: Yeah, I did. My family lived here in Livonia for well over 200 years. We came over from New England in the late 1790s. We’re still trying to research and figure out exactly when.

UW: How did you end up working in the sporting goods business?

TP: Well, I graduated from college in ’67…

UW: Where’d you go to college?

TP: Rochester Business Institute. It’s a two-year school — I got an associate’s degree in accounting. And I went and interviewed with Eastman-Kodak, Xerox, all the major companies around here. But none of them were hiring. And of course that was right at the height of Viet Nam, so a lot of companies didn’t want to take a chance on younger guys, because they could get drafted. So anyway, I was working part-time at the local hardware store and I got a call from a friend of mine who ran Ruby’s Sporting Goods in Rochester. One of the employees there had had a heart attack and couldn’t work, so he asked me if I wanted the job. I said yeah, and that became my life’s work for the next 23 years.

UW: Were you already a big sports fan at that time?

TP: Oh, yeah. I got hooked on sports when I was about 10 years old. The first World Series I followed was the Braves and Yankees in ’57. And I got hooked on hockey, too, because they’d show Saturday-afternoon games from Madison Square Garden on TV. And we’d get Celtics games on Sunday afternoon, and for football we’d get Giants and Cleveland Browns games. Everyone around here picked one or the other — I picked Cleveland.

UW: So you were happy to get a job in sporting goods.

TP: Definitely. Believe it or not, beginning around 11 years old I was doodling little drawings of uniforms. I wasn’t as good as Ricko, and I didn’t keep any of them, but I’d mark all the subtle changes in the uniforms and all that.

UW: So you were a uniform aficonado from way back.

TP: Yup. In fact, way before there were these online uniform-builder things that you see now, I used to draw things up for potential customers at Ruby’s, so they could see how a certain design would look in their colors, and then my boss or I would present it to them. We got a lot of orders that way! I wish I had these digital tools back then — would’ve made my job a lot easier. But I enjoyed doing it, as a hobby and for my work.

UW: What kind of store was Ruby’s? Can you describe it?

TP: It started out as a full-service sporting goods store. We sold a lot of skiing equipment, in addition to team sports gear. The different stores in Rochester sold different lines — we had Spalding, MacGregor, Russell Athletic. But if you wanted Wilson or Rawlings uniforms, you’d go to one of the other stores. Each store protected their own lines. Now every hardware store and five-and-dime has the same stuff.

UW: So in your 23 years there, did you become a part-owner or manager?

TP: I was the manager toward the end. Then I had a stroke in January of ’88 and was on sick leave. I was getting ready to go back to work in May, but then I had a bigger stroke, the big one, and went on full disability after that. But I never lost my interest in sporting goods. So when my friend Tom started a health club and athletic center in the mid-1990s, he got a lot of calls for uniforms, because he had a full basketball court and soccer field down there. I still had the contacts, so we started a uniform operation. The athletic center’s closed now, but we still have the uniform division, and we make more money now than we ever did with the athletic center.

UW: So you’re still doing that today?

TP: Yes.

UW: What’s the business called?

TP: Livingston Athletics Gear.

UW: You obviously know your uniforms. Do you have a similarly encyclopedic knowledge of other aspects of sporting goods, or are you mainly a uniform guy?

TP: I know a lot — we’d sell football helmets, baseball bats, baseball gloves — but uniforms were always my area of expertise. Whenever a new catalog came in at Ruby’s, I’d grab it and start reading it like other people would read a magazine. That’s why I’m so interested in these old catalogs that you post on the site — brings back some really good memories.

UW: You’ve told me that you primarily worked with local school teams, but you also outfitted the local hockey team, the Rochester Americans.

TP: Ruby’s did the Amerks from the 1957-58 season through 1969-70. ’Course, I was still a little kid for the beginning of that. The team’s first season was 1956-57, and they got their uniforms from Champion Sporting Goods in Rochester. And then the next season they moved over to Ruby. Leo Ruby, who founded the company, and who was just the nicest man — you talk about an encyclopedic knowledge! He taught me how to string tennis rackets. Anyway, at first he got the Amerks’ jerseys from a place called Hardin Knitwear in New York City. And then in 1959, when they started wearing the jersey with the crest on the front, similar to what they wear today, they got those from King-O’Shea of Chicago — a Wilson subsidiary. Then they switched to General Athletic out of Greenville, Ohio, for the 1965-66 season.

UW: Does Ruby’s still exist?

TP: No, it closed up in 1990, two years after I stopped working there.

UW: They couldn’t survive without you!

TP: I don’t know about that, but my boss sold the business because he was getting up in years. The guys he sold it to, they ruined it, kind of pissed it away.

UW: How would you describe your tastes in terms of uniforms?

TP: Pretty conservative. I don’t like these new Nike and Reebok templates, they look so crappy. Everyone looks the same! There’s no originality. And of course I can’t stand the way the guys wear the uniforms today. The football uniforms don’t even look like football uniforms — I wish they’d bring back the sleeves and get rid of all the stupid inserts. Advances in equipment are great, increasing protection for the players is great, but it doesn’t look like football anymore — it looks like that movie, what do you call it, uh, Rollerball. And basketball uniforms are too big and baggy, baseball pants, I can’t stand those ugly pants the way they wear ’em today. I’m like you, I love it when you can see the striped socks.

UW: So when you’re outfitting a team, do you try to influence what they’ll wear based on your own tastes, or do you leave it completely up to them?

TP: I try to keep things distinctive and classy, not too outlandish. A lot of teams now go with a stock template and fill in the blanks, sort of like color-by-numbers. We always try to get something different in there, some sort of distinctive detail.

UW: Nowadays, uniform outfitting is controlled by a few big corporations. But back in your day there were lots of little companies competing for attention, right?

TP: Oh, yeah. Of course the majors were Spanjian (they were bought out by DeLong, who closed the uniform plant this past year), Powers, MacGregor. Then you had Russell Athletic, which was a little less expensive but still good-quality stuff. Sold a lot of Russell football stuff over the years — they made great football jerseys. You could never kill ’em, man, they wore forever. Anyways, yeah, then you had your little cut-and-sew houses in New York City, like Felco, Post, Empire. There were a couple in Philadelphia too, like Oliver Brothers.

UW: So what would all these companies do to curry favor with a retailer like yourself?

TP: Nothing, really. It was all about the tastes of the market. There’s probably 120 high schools in the Rochester area, so you pretty much had something for everyone, depending on how much money they had to spend or what their tastes were. Pittsford, which was a very exclusive suburb of Rochester, they’d go with Powers, because that was basically the Cadillac of uniforms….

UW: But the different companies, wouldn’t they try to wine you and dine you or anything like that? And would they just mail their catalogs to you, or would a sales rep show up and present the line to you in person?

TP: Yes, we got to know some of the sales reps very, very well. Freddie Clark was our sales rep for Russell — in fact, we toured the Russell plant with him in the ’70s. We flew down to Atlanta, drove to Alexander City, Alabama, went through the plant. We were sitting in the office with the plant’s general manager when a kid runs in with a pair of pants for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers — the pants had a 28-inch waist but were 32 inches around the thighs. It was some little running back who had legs like tree trunks. They had to make a special pattern to make them. Anyways, the companies all treated you well. Unfortunately, they all made you stock a lot of football stuff, because down South the schools would get new football uniforms every year. In Rochester, football was popular, but not as popular as basketball or baseball, so we always ended up eating a lot of football inventory. So we’d call up the city school district guys, take ’em out, get ’em drunk, and then afterward, when they were half liquored up, we’d take ’em back to the store and get them to buy ’em for the local high schools.

UW: Would you ever end up with sample sets or prototypes?

TP: Yes. Remember when they added the horns to the Rams’ jerseys, on the shoulders? We saw that ahead of time. And a lot of times they’d sell you sample sets for maybe half off. I wish I’d kept some of those — I had a full set of the ABA’s Los Angeles Stars uniforms. The socks were great, you would’ve loved them. Anyway, at the end of the year we’d sell off all the samples — we’d set up a little table outside our store, sort of like our own flea market. People in the neighborhood would come by, pick ’em up for two or three dollars. If I only knew, I could’ve made some money on eBay from all this stuff. Some of them were beautiful, too.

UW: What do you think of the changes in fabrics over the years?

TP: Most have been very good. I was always a leader with that, trying to get teams to change fabrics. A lot of high school basketball teams still wear dazzle — it’s so heavy and absorbent when you sweat. So we encourage teams to go with flat-back mesh, which is like what the NBA uses. I was a big proponent of pro mesh back when that came out in the 1970s, although the whites turned a bit gray after a few washings. But the colors held up really well, and the fabric was very durable, almost indestructible. Yeah, I like the fabrics they’ve got today. Although some of the Lycra stuff, I don’t care for how it makes the football pants look like leotards. Those are too lousy. But by and large, they’ve done a good job

UW: Have you saved a lot of uniform-related memorabilia over the years?

TP: I wish I did. I had so much of it, but when I sold my house and moved, a lot of it just got tossed. I really regret that.

==========

Nicely done, Terry. Thanks for sharing your stories and expertise.

Incidentally, Terry was pretty serious when he said he was a Browns fan. Here’s what he wrote to me after the Super Bowl: “The damn Steelers sucked one out Sunday. Being a lifelong Browns fan the Steelers are still and will always be a joke to me. And may the Baltimore Crows NEVER win the Super Bowl again as long as that lying SOB Fast Artie Modell owns them!” Good to see Terry isn’t slowing down in his old age.

Picture 1.png

We’ll have an ad from Singer Sewing Machines any day now: Greg Riffenburg checked in with a DIY-ish story yesterday, although it’s really more about uniform modification, not making a uniform from scratch:

When I started playing JV football in high school, I was moved from the offensive line to tight end. As an avid football fan, I started noticing that skill position players were wearing their jerseys tight (especially at the sleeves), to minimize what the defenders had to grab.

Since our jerseys were the basic baggy, big-holed mesh, I knew I had to do something to them. So I had my mom take me to the local sewing shop to pick up some elastic to put in the jersey’s sleeve and bottom hem. She set up the sewing machine but had me do the actual sewing. It turned out looking like this (I insisted on having number 86 but there was no white jersey in that number, so I had to improvise and cut up a friend’s freshman practice jersey of a friend in order to make an 88 into 86). A handful of my teammates saw what I had done to my jersey and either had me or their moms do it to theirs.

By the time my class reached the varsity squad, we were excited to be getting some real, good-looking football jerseys, but they gave us these baggy jokes. As a backup in my junior year, I didn’t do much about it other than roll up my sleeves. But as the season wore on, I decided to do something about it. So I took my jersey, turned it inside out and sewed a new gusset/underarm seam line down the length of each side of the jersey. This gave it a much tighter silhouette and less for the defenders to grab. We wore the same jerseys during my senior year, and many of the juniors on the team asked me to do the same thing to their jerseys. I ended up modifying about a dozen of my teammates’ jerseys to various degrees.

There’s a really important lesson here. To wit: If you learn a useful skill, everyone will just sponge off of you, so don’t bother. Kids shouldn’t be allowed to watch sports on TV, because they end up imitating the worst aspects of what they see.

Raffle Results: The winner of the Sports Propaganda raffle is Mike Menner (and if he chooses this design, I will personally go to his house and fix the apostrophe with a Magic Marker). More raffles coming in the next two weeks, providing everyone with more chances to not win, wheee!

Uni Watch News Ticker: We all know about this famous typo. Now someone is selling an intentionally misspelled Gretzky jersey — from the Kings, not the Rangers, which makes no sense — on eBay (with thanks to Greg Wyshynski). … Interesting intellectual property issues addressed here and here. … Here’s another long-sleeved basketball player: Maria Moore of Texas Tech. Thanks to her high socks and low shorts, she looks solid white when she isn’t running (with thanks to Matt Mitchell). … RNOB. Ben Traxel took that shot at Tuesday’s UNC/Maryland game. Then he went to the UNC basketball museum, where he saw this and this. … MLB has confirmed for me that the all teams will once again be wearing the “portion of the proceeds” caps on July 4th, along with the recently announced ALS-awareness patch. As previously reported, the patch will read, “4_ALS,” but the actual design isn’t being made public yet. … Yesterday I mentioned that this helmet logo seemed stenciled on. As it turns out, reader Jason Taylor won that very helmet at auction and has some details to share: “The logo is indeed stenciled. In fact, one of the first things that struck me about the helmet when I was looking at the auction listing was that the logo didn’t look like an ABC job. (ABC’s the company that made MLB’s helmets back then, as you know.) In fact, the paint didn’t look original either. I had a hunch that Charles Finley’s rep as the cheapest owner in baseball factored in here somehow. Long(er) story short, I’m pretty certain that this was once an old KC A’s helmet from ’67 that was repainted by the team in ’68 or ’69. You can see its original green color where parts of the yellow paint’s been chipped away. [Dave] Duncan [whose name is inside the helmet] was with the team each of those years.” … So much to like in this photo. Those are the Rochester Royals in the striped shorts (with thanks to Brad Keppler). … When the light is just right, you can see that the Oklahoma women’s hoops uniforms have really ugly spots (Matt Mitchell again). … My friend Steven Tatar sells vintage sweaters. Check out the cool graphics he used for his latest ad. … Tremendous article plus slideshow on Marquette basketball’s uniform history. … Drew VanNess says Gonzaga will be wearing black jerseys against Memphis tomorrow. … Tim Lincecum dropped the ceremonial first puck at last night’s Sharks/Hurricanes game and was given a Sharks jersey for the occasion. “The sleeves were cut short, just below the stripes, turning them into 3/4 sleeves,” reports Brendan Tarpey. “Combined with his silly hat, the fact that he looks like he’s 15, and his collared shirt under the jersey (always a bad look, and even more so with laces), he looked downright comical. The pictures don’t do his outfit justice.” … Here’s a close look at one of the No. 44 jerseys that the Globetrotters wore on Inauguration Day. … Andy Altemus notes that Mike McKenna was called up by the Lightning the other day and started against the Penguins on Wednesday night wearing his Norfolk Admirals pads and mask. … Jon Lester showed up at spring training in an old World Series shirt (with thanks to Tom Adjemian). … As you know, Santonio Holmes’s gloves were named the Super Bowl’s MVP, and now they’re being auctioned off for charity. … Has there ever been a more appropriate NOB? … According to a small item buried within this Q&A, the Diamondbacks have no uniform changes in the works (thanks, Phil). … Also from Phil: More ski-cross uniform controversy.

 

182 comments to Uni Watch Profiles: Terry Proctor

  • Robert in Dallas | February 6, 2009 at 8:42 am |

    Great interview. I feel so bad for Mr. Proctor (and us) for him not having hung on to the uni-related items that he accumulated over the years. Imagine the treasure trove . . . .

  • LI Phil | February 6, 2009 at 8:45 am |

    GREAT interview with TP, paul!

    i thought the quote of the day might be his, when he gave you this gem:

    [quote]I don’t like these new Nike and Reebok templates, they look so crappy. Everyone looks the same! There’s no originality. And of course I can’t stand the way the guys wear the uniforms today. The football uniforms don’t even look like football uniforms — I wish they’d bring back the sleeves and get rid of all the stupid inserts. [/quote]

    but then, a couple grafs later, he topped it with this beauty:

    [quote] So we’d call up the city school district guys, take ’em out, get ’em drunk, and then afterward, when they were half liquored up, we’d take ’em back to the store and get them to buy ’em for the local high schools.[/quote]

    priceless!

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 9:06 am |

    Agreed. The good ol’ days when Jack Daniels was a member of your sales team.

    Great interview. Terry’s such a fabulous resourse for UW.

    He’s gotta stop holding back on his feelings about Art Modell, though.

    —Ricko

  • Kim | February 6, 2009 at 9:16 am |

    Grr. As one of the couple of dozen soccer fans, I was disappointed that Chelsea’s new uniform link was broken (or swamped…either way,I can’t see it).

    2010 is a World Cup year, so it’s a bonanza for new uniforms, and a new Chelsea shirt may have given a sneak peak at what we’d be looking at.

  • Leo | February 6, 2009 at 9:23 am |

    I’m a Duke fan and even I would wear this everywhere I go.

    http://farm4.static....

  • Todd Morss | February 6, 2009 at 9:25 am |

    Great interview Paul and Terry- I’m glad to see that someone who has given so much to the industry gets a tip of the hat. I’m proud to say that I consider Terry a close friend and mentor.

  • Lomion | February 6, 2009 at 9:29 am |

    There are a few bad links in todays entry. The second intellectual property link and the second Lincecum link are misdirected, and the soccer jerseys one goes to a dead link.

    Awesome interview, I second Phil’s favorite quotes.

  • interlockingtc | February 6, 2009 at 9:37 am |

    That Rochester/Boston shot is jsut incredible. A great piece of art that pulls you in on so many levels. The first thing that caught my eye were the abstract patterns of the players’ shadows against the parquet floor. Awesome.

  • tosaman | February 6, 2009 at 9:44 am |

    re: Marquette ‘racer’ unis from ’68 – ’69: Jerel McNeal’s shorts must be waaaay to long:
    http://www.jsonline....

    A little googling turned up what I thought:
    http://wiki.muscoop....

  • Hott Rodd | February 6, 2009 at 9:44 am |

    I saw this and wondered if it had been discussed here. I read the site pretty frequently, but most of the flickr links i can’t see, so ignore me if this is old news.

    http://www.profootba...

  • Don | February 6, 2009 at 9:46 am |

    [quote comment=”313794″]I saw this and wondered if it had been discussed here. I read the site pretty frequently, but most of the flickr links i can’t see, so ignore me if this is old news.

    http://www.profootba...

    I was about to post the same thing. I really like the Chargers logo.

  • Pittsburgh Gunny | February 6, 2009 at 9:47 am |

    “but it’s only soccer…”
    Some of us here do indeed check out these links and I for one ignore the baseball ones. Come on the ARSENAL! Oh, and I can’t wait for the new MLS season to start as well.

  • Robert in Dallas | February 6, 2009 at 9:51 am |

    [quote comment=”313795″][quote comment=”313794″]I saw this and wondered if it had been discussed here. I read the site pretty frequently, but most of the flickr links i can’t see, so ignore me if this is old news.

    http://www.profootba...

    I hate to say it, but that Chargers logo made me think of Buffaslug and the Barney Rubble haircut.

    http://i85.photobuck...
    I was about to post the same thing. I really like the Chargers logo.[/quote]

  • Robert in Dallas | February 6, 2009 at 9:52 am |

    What’s with the italics? What did I do wrong?

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 9:52 am |

    [quote comment=”313794″]I saw this and wondered if it had been discussed here. I read the site pretty frequently, but most of the flickr links i can’t see, so ignore me if this is old news.

    http://www.profootba...

    Call me dense, but if you’re celebrating a 50th anniversary, shouldn’t the throwbacks be to the season 50 years ago?

    Nah, much easier to just wear the throwback you already have on hand…which in the case of the Chargers will be powder blue, and will be wrong. The ’63 title team wore royal.

    Well, they did, and I’m not go through it all for the umpteenth time. Just go to SI Vault, search covers for “Tobin Rote” and you’ll see frickin’ royal blue jerseys in 1963.

    Other than that, I’m in a great mood. It’s Friday. Or, as a wise man once called it…
    “POETS Day” (Piss On Everything Tomorrow’s Saturday”). LOL

    —Ricko

  • Robert in Dallas | February 6, 2009 at 9:53 am |

    [quote comment=”313795″][quote comment=”313794″]I saw this and wondered if it had been discussed here. I read the site pretty frequently, but most of the flickr links i can’t see, so ignore me if this is old news.

    http://www.profootba...

    I was about to post the same thing. I really like the Chargers logo.[/quote]

    I hate to say it, but that Chargers logo made me think of Buffaslug and the Barney Rubble haircut.

    http://i85.photobuck...

    (I apologize for my earlier sloppiness. Phil, delete as necessary.)

  • Paul Lukas | February 6, 2009 at 9:54 am |

    [quote comment=”313791″]There are a few bad links in todays entry. The second intellectual property link and the second Lincecum link are misdirected, and the soccer jerseys one goes to a dead link.[/quote]

    All now fixed except the Chelsea link, which appears to have gone bad, so I’ve removed it.

  • Perry | February 6, 2009 at 10:07 am |

    I believe the Royals’ #12 in that Rochester-Boston photo is the great Maurice Stokes. And if you don’t know his story, you should.

    http://www.sportshol...

  • John T | February 6, 2009 at 10:08 am |

    [quote comment=”313796″]”but it’s only soccer…”
    Some of us here do indeed check out these links and I for one ignore the baseball ones. Come on the ARSENAL! Oh, and I can’t wait for the new MLS season to start as well.[/quote]

    For the gunner fan……
    http://www.arsenal.c...

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 10:09 am |

    Here’s that SI Cover (Chargers in royal in ’63)…
    http://vault.sportsi...

    —Ricko

  • John T | February 6, 2009 at 10:12 am |

    [quote comment=”313788″]Grr. As one of the couple of dozen soccer fans, I was disappointed that Chelsea’s new uniform link was broken (or swamped…either way,I can’t see it).

    2010 is a World Cup year, so it’s a bonanza for new uniforms, and a new Chelsea shirt may have given a sneak peak at what we’d be looking at.[/quote]

    Hope this works, Leaked Chelsea kits
    http://www.carefreec...

    would be interesting…..

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 10:13 am |

    [quote comment=”313804″]Here’s that SI Cover (Chargers in royal in ’63)…
    http://vault.sportsi...

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Click “view this issue”. Check out pp. 24-25 for Navy in monochrome gold, rounded arabic numerals and a “DRIVE for FIVE” on back. Would that be an “SOB” (Slogan On Back)?

    —Ricko

  • LI Phil | February 6, 2009 at 10:14 am |

    [quote comment=”313804″]Here’s that SI Cover (Chargers in royal in ’63)…
    http://vault.sportsi...

    —Ricko[/quote]

    here’s what they should look like

    /love the shield on the helmet!
    //the chelsea soccer link DID work earlier, i guess we farked it

  • Wade Harder | February 6, 2009 at 10:18 am |

    [quote comment=”313787″]Agreed. The good ol’ days when Jack Daniels was a member of your sales team.

    Great interview. Terry’s such a fabulous resourse for UW.

    He’s gotta stop holding back on his feelings about Art Modell, though.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    As a Lynchburg native, Ricko, I have to correct you. It’s Jack Daniel’s.

  • Perry | February 6, 2009 at 10:18 am |

    [quote comment=”313803″][quote comment=”313796″]”but it’s only soccer…”
    Some of us here do indeed check out these links and I for one ignore the baseball ones. Come on the ARSENAL! Oh, and I can’t wait for the new MLS season to start as well.[/quote]

    For the gunner fan……
    http://www.arsenal.c...

    It’s great that they got Arshavin and all, but any of my fellow Gooners out there having trouble getting used to those new jerseys with the wide white stripe in place of the traditional white sleeves? It’s been several months now, and … I’m sorry, they just don’t look like Arsenal. Instead, they look like every other team that wears red. Please, please, please Arsenal, bring back the white sleeves.

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 10:21 am |

    [quote comment=”313807″][quote comment=”313804″]Here’s that SI Cover (Chargers in royal in ’63)…
    http://vault.sportsi...

    —Ricko[/quote]

    here’s what they should look like

    /love the shield on the helmet!
    //the chelsea soccer link DID work earlier, i guess we farked it[/quote]

    Whatever it is, should be pretty much same color blue as Colts, Rams, Giants, trim on Patriots. Somewhere I have a color photo from that Pats-Chargers title game and the blues are virtually the same. It was the next year that that Chargers went a bit lighter and stayed that way for two years. By ’66 were back closer to royal. I know cuz I saw them play at Balboa in ’66. In ’67 was even darker, almost navy.

    —Ricko
    (sure glad I said I wasn’t gonna go through this again. LOL)

  • Tim Couch | February 6, 2009 at 10:21 am |

    Somebody might want to tell Mr. Proctor that Steve Bisciotti now owns 99% of the Ravens and that the NFL gave a team called the Browns and a brand new stadium to Cleveland.

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 10:23 am |

    [quote comment=”313808″][quote comment=”313787″]Agreed. The good ol’ days when Jack Daniels was a member of your sales team.

    Great interview. Terry’s such a fabulous resourse for UW.

    He’s gotta stop holding back on his feelings about Art Modell, though.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    As a Lynchburg native, Ricko, I have to correct you. It’s Jack Daniel’s.[/quote]

    ‘Tis true, ’tis true. Can I weasel out of my screwup by claiming I was referring to the mythical human embodiment of same?

    Nah, probably not.

  • Stuby | February 6, 2009 at 10:23 am |

    [quote comment=”313806″][quote comment=”313804″]Here’s that SI Cover (Chargers in royal in ’63)…
    http://vault.sportsi...

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Click “view this issue”. Check out pp. 24-25 for Navy in monochrome gold, rounded arabic numerals and a “DRIVE for FIVE” on back. Would that be an “SOB” (Slogan On Back)?

    —Ricko[/quote]
    If you got to the “Faces in the Crowd” section on p.79, you’ll find a 15 y.o. Ted Simmons being recognized for his football accomplishments.

  • dgc | February 6, 2009 at 10:24 am |

    [quote comment=”313799″][quote comment=”313794″]I saw this and wondered if it had been discussed here. I read the site pretty frequently, but most of the flickr links i can’t see, so ignore me if this is old news.

    http://www.profootba...

    Call me dense, but if you’re celebrating a 50th anniversary, shouldn’t the throwbacks be to the season 50 years ago?

    Nah, much easier to just wear the throwback you already have on hand…which in the case of the Chargers will be powder blue, and will be wrong. The ’63 title team wore royal.

    Well, they did, and I’m not go through it all for the umpteenth time. Just go to SI Vault, search covers for “Tobin Rote” and you’ll see frickin’ royal blue jerseys in 1963.

    Other than that, I’m in a great mood. It’s Friday. Or, as a wise man once called it…
    “POETS Day” (Piss On Everything Tomorrow’s Saturday”). LOL

    —Ricko[/quote]
    It doesn’t say they’ll be wearing the powder blue alternate, it says “will wear a uniform modeled after their 1963 uniform”.

  • Flip | February 6, 2009 at 10:28 am |

    [quote comment=”313802″]I believe the Royals’ #12 in that Rochester-Boston photo is the great Maurice Stokes. And if you don’t know his story, you should.

    http://www.sportshol...

    Excellent reference. As a boy, I remember Jack Twyman as the color man on ABC’s (Always Boston Celtics) NBA team. He was a tireless Stokes advocate.

    Never saw Maurice play, but I believe all the things stated in the story.

    Twyman was a good color announcer, obviously a good player and an even better human being.

  • timmy b | February 6, 2009 at 10:28 am |

    Speaking of soccer, as a retro guy like Ricko, Tom Farley among others, I LOVED that rounded numeral font in use in the football league from the fifties, sixties and seventies, especially the 6’s and 9’s.

    I’m not good for posting pix, so if anyone can find good examples of shots from that era, please do so!

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 10:29 am |

    [quote comment=”313807″][quote comment=”313804″]Here’s that SI Cover (Chargers in royal in ’63)…
    http://vault.sportsi...

    —Ricko[/quote]

    here’s what they should look like

    /love the shield on the helmet!
    //the chelsea soccer link DID work earlier, i guess we farked it[/quote]

    re: Shield. San Diego was voted an “All-American City” or something that year. Have no idea by whom. Tijuana, perhaps.

    —Ricko

  • Hott Rodd | February 6, 2009 at 10:29 am |

    [quote comment=”313814″][quote comment=”313799″][quote comment=”313794″]I saw this and wondered if it had been discussed here. I read the site pretty frequently, but most of the flickr links i can’t see, so ignore me if this is old news.

    http://www.profootba...

    Call me dense, but if you’re celebrating a 50th anniversary, shouldn’t the throwbacks be to the season 50 years ago?

    Nah, much easier to just wear the throwback you already have on hand…which in the case of the Chargers will be powder blue, and will be wrong. The ’63 title team wore royal.

    Well, they did, and I’m not go through it all for the umpteenth time. Just go to SI Vault, search covers for “Tobin Rote” and you’ll see frickin’ royal blue jerseys in 1963.

    Other than that, I’m in a great mood. It’s Friday. Or, as a wise man once called it…
    “POETS Day” (Piss On Everything Tomorrow’s Saturday”). LOL

    —Ricko[/quote]
    It doesn’t say they’ll be wearing the powder blue alternate, it says “will wear a uniform modeled after their 1963 uniform”.[/quote]

    That was my thought. I wonder whether they plan on trying to pass off the current throwbacks as the ’63s or if they have a new alt in the works.

  • Flip | February 6, 2009 at 10:30 am |

    [quote comment=”313815″][quote comment=”313802″]I believe the Royals’ #12 in that Rochester-Boston photo is the great Maurice Stokes. And if you don’t know his story, you should.

    http://www.sportshol...

    Excellent reference. As a boy, I remember Jack Twyman as the color man on ABC’s (Always Boston Celtics) NBA team. He was a tireless Stokes advocate.

    Never saw Maurice play, but I believe all the things stated in the story.

    Twyman was a good color announcer, obviously a good player and an even better human being.[/quote]

    http://en.wikipedia....

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 10:34 am |

    [quote comment=”313816″]Speaking of soccer, as a retro guy like Ricko, Tom Farley among others, I LOVED that rounded numeral font in use in the football league from the fifties, sixties and seventies, especially the 6’s and 9’s.

    I’m not good for posting pix, so if anyone can find good examples of shots from that era, please do so![/quote]

    Washington Huskies, Cal Bears, Pitt Panthers, Navy, Steelers, and original Raiders come to mind. Any others? Well, and Nebraska and UCLA had more ornate versions.

    ’60 and ’61 Raiders are only ones I recall with two-color numbers, though.

    —Ricko

  • DenverGregg | February 6, 2009 at 10:38 am |

    [quote comment=”313795″][quote comment=”313794″]I saw this and wondered if it had been discussed here. I read the site pretty frequently, but most of the flickr links i can’t see, so ignore me if this is old news.

    http://www.profootba...

    I was about to post the same thing. I really like the Chargers logo.[/quote]
    One big faux-pas: it’s the 50th anniversary of the Chargers, but not the 50th anniversary (and perhaps even the last anniversary) of the San Diego Chargers.

  • goofy119 | February 6, 2009 at 10:42 am |

    Diamondbacks uniforms
    “dpwildcat: Are the D-backs planning on any uniform updates this season or the next? I’m hoping for something a little more traditional looking.”

    “Hall: We hope to make these traditional over time and plan on no changes. The reaction to these uniforms has been tremendous from players and fans.”

    i.e. – We really like copying and looking like the Houston Astros
    Never mind we had a traditional, original, winning look. (Please bring back the pinstripes) Copying other teams is what we are all about. Painting over all of our past winning history with Sedona Red in our stadium, and putting out junk that our fans hate. Now we get to cry out and say we have no money because we have such a small fan base, is what we are all about We are not making any uniform changes!
    “Eh eh eh! Wake up!” – goofy119

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 10:44 am |

    [quote comment=”313821″][quote comment=”313795″][quote comment=”313794″]I saw this and wondered if it had been discussed here. I read the site pretty frequently, but most of the flickr links i can’t see, so ignore me if this is old news.

    http://www.profootba...

    I was about to post the same thing. I really like the Chargers logo.[/quote]
    One big faux-pas: it’s the 50th anniversary of the Chargers, but not the 50th anniversary (and perhaps even the last anniversary) of the San Diego Chargers.[/quote]

    They should stick to saying AFL 50th Anniversary, but NFL probably frowns on that. Chiefs and (Tenn) Titans will have the same issue. And the Raiders, with their years in L.A. (or, as Oakland fans refer to it, “the time the Raiders ran away from home”).

    —Ricko

  • Robert in Dallas | February 6, 2009 at 10:46 am |

    [quote comment=”313820″][quote comment=”313816″]Speaking of soccer, as a retro guy like Ricko, Tom Farley among others, I LOVED that rounded numeral font in use in the football league from the fifties, sixties and seventies, especially the 6’s and 9’s.

    I’m not good for posting pix, so if anyone can find good examples of shots from that era, please do so![/quote]

    Washington Huskies, Cal Bears, Pitt Panthers, Navy, Steelers, and original Raiders come to mind. Any others? Well, and Nebraska and UCLA had more ornate versions.

    ’60 and ’61 Raiders are only ones I recall with two-color numbers, though.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Here is Nebraska’s. This was the Cornhuskers’ worst uniform. It just did not fit the team’s image.

    http://i62.photobuck...

  • Jon | February 6, 2009 at 10:46 am |

    I have said it before, but the Patriots will be going back to thier throwbacks for next year. They will have them for 2 games according to the Boston Globe
    http://www.boston.co...

  • Robert in Dallas | February 6, 2009 at 10:57 am |

    [quote comment=”313824″][quote comment=”313820″][quote comment=”313816″]Speaking of soccer, as a retro guy like Ricko, Tom Farley among others, I LOVED that rounded numeral font in use in the football league from the fifties, sixties and seventies, especially the 6’s and 9’s.

    I’m not good for posting pix, so if anyone can find good examples of shots from that era, please do so![/quote]

    Washington Huskies, Cal Bears, Pitt Panthers, Navy, Steelers, and original Raiders come to mind. Any others? Well, and Nebraska and UCLA had more ornate versions.

    ’60 and ’61 Raiders are only ones I recall with two-color numbers, though.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Here is Nebraska’s. This was the Cornhuskers’ worst uniform. It just did not fit the team’s image.

    http://i62.photobuck...

    Here is a live view.

    http://i62.photobuck...

  • Pat | February 6, 2009 at 10:59 am |

    Not uniform related but for all those who hate logo creep this, to me, is the most egregious example.

    Third item in this article.

    G-E-I-C-O instead of H-O-R-S-E… worst news ever.

  • Hott Rodd | February 6, 2009 at 11:02 am |

    [quote comment=”313825″]I have said it before, but the Patriots will be going back to thier throwbacks for next year. They will have them for 2 games according to the Boston Globe
    http://www.boston.co...

    Looks like it will tie in with the same thing as the Chargers. Anyone have any ideas how this will work, if it will be one home game and one road game? The NFL will only approve one Throwback/Alt so does that mean that all of the AFL games will be color on color? Or at least those where the team uses a color throwback? Patriots red, Chargers navy, etc?

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 11:03 am |

    [quote comment=”313827″]Not uniform related but for all those who hate logo creep this, to me, is the most egregious example.

    Third item in this article.

    G-E-I-C-O instead of H-O-R-S-E… worst news ever.[/quote]

    That really sucks, cuz some of those players had already memorized the first three letters of “horse.”

  • Lomion | February 6, 2009 at 11:06 am |

    [quote comment=”313806″][quote comment=”313804″]Here’s that SI Cover (Chargers in royal in ’63)…
    http://vault.sportsi...

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Click “view this issue”. Check out pp. 24-25 for Navy in monochrome gold, rounded arabic numerals and a “DRIVE for FIVE” on back. Would that be an “SOB” (Slogan On Back)?

    —Ricko[/quote]
    Holy cow, I knew you could read all the old articles on SI.com, but I didn’t know they had full scans, complete with ads! Love the old Jag E-Type ad.

    These old monochrome football unis just keep showing up, man. Personally, I think they looked just as bad back then as they do now.

  • Kurt | February 6, 2009 at 11:06 am |
  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 11:09 am |

    [quote comment=”313831″]Here’s a nice cover featuring Northwestern’s 1963 uniforms…[/quote]

    Tom Myers-to-Paul Flatley. Pretty good, and largely forgotten, pass-catch combo.

  • Lomion | February 6, 2009 at 11:09 am |

    [quote comment=”313817″][quote comment=”313807″][quote comment=”313804″]Here’s that SI Cover (Chargers in royal in ’63)…
    http://vault.sportsi...

    —Ricko[/quote]

    here’s what they should look like

    /love the shield on the helmet!
    //the chelsea soccer link DID work earlier, i guess we farked it[/quote]

    re: Shield. San Diego was voted an “All-American City” or something that year. Have no idea by whom. Tijuana, perhaps.

    —Ricko[/quote]
    http://en.wikipedia....

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 11:15 am |

    [quote comment=”313833″][quote comment=”313817″][quote comment=”313807″][quote comment=”313804″]Here’s that SI Cover (Chargers in royal in ’63)…
    http://vault.sportsi...

    —Ricko[/quote]

    here’s what they should look like

    /love the shield on the helmet!
    //the chelsea soccer link DID work earlier, i guess we farked it[/quote]

    re: Shield. San Diego was voted an “All-American City” or something that year. Have no idea by whom. Tijuana, perhaps.

    —Ricko[/quote]
    http://en.wikipedia....

    Good find. Had no idea that award was still around.

  • dgc | February 6, 2009 at 11:16 am |

    [quote comment=”313828″][quote comment=”313825″]I have said it before, but the Patriots will be going back to thier throwbacks for next year. They will have them for 2 games according to the Boston Globe
    http://www.boston.co...

    Looks like it will tie in with the same thing as the Chargers. Anyone have any ideas how this will work, if it will be one home game and one road game? The NFL will only approve one Throwback/Alt so does that mean that all of the AFL games will be color on color? Or at least those where the team uses a color throwback? Patriots red, Chargers navy, etc?[/quote]

    From the SD Union-Tribune:

    The uniforms will be worn in games (one home, one away) against Denver, Kansas City, Oakland or Tennessee. Those are the only original AFL teams on the Chargers’ schedule in 2009. Both teams will wear uniforms from their AFL days.

  • Stuby | February 6, 2009 at 11:20 am |

    Anyone know what the stars on Dick Butkus’ helmet are for? Years of captaincy? Number of times being an All-American? Quarterbacks killed?

    http://i.cdn.turner....

  • Fred | February 6, 2009 at 11:34 am |

    I’ve been updating the website at work, and I see that NASCAR has released their 2009 “Hero” shots. It’s interesting to see how the different drivers have their suits designed. There’s some that are odd, but some that are surprisingly sharp.

    Aric Almirola has designs on the wrists to look like Rocker-type leather wristbands to go with his Guitar Hero sponsorship.

    Kurt Busch has an interesting “upside down staple” design on his midsection and down his legs.

    Kyle Busch looks good with an arrangement of all the different colors of M&M’s on his midsection.

    Dale Jr.’s suit reminds me a little of the NY Jets with a green top and white pants and sleeves.

    Jeff Gordon has gone to black this year, instead of blue, and green plays a much more prominent role in the flame colors.

    Denny Hamlin’s FedEx suit is sharp and clean. It’s all black with thick orange and purple panels down the sides and legs.

    Bobby Labonte’s Ask.com suit reminds me of Super Dave with Red epaulets, light blue flames on the wrists and blue stripes with stars down the sides and legs.

    Juan Pablo Montoya, being sponsored by Target, has… targets all over him. In his shot, I can count 8, with 6 on his neck alone. He’s got one on the left wrist, but no corresponding one on the right wrist.

    I think Ryan Newman’s is one of the best. It’s an all black suit, with gold piping on the epaulets. However, the side and leg panels are the new digital camo with yellow stripes on either side. It’s a clean, sharp suit.

    David Ragan… not really sure what to say about that one. It’s brown and gold for UPS. The top is brown with gold designs, and the legs are the opposite. On the side panels, there are yellow tribal patterns, but on the legs they switch to brown tribal patterns. They’re not the same thickness on both halves, and don’t even match the same pattern.

    Regan Smith is a pretty clean one too. It’s a simple black suit with a ‘silky’ red and white panel down the side and leg.

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 11:35 am |

    [quote comment=”313836″]Anyone know what the stars on Dick Butkus’ helmet are for? Years of captaincy? Number of times being an All-American? Quarterbacks killed?

    http://i.cdn.turner....

    Also we’re reminded that a) Butkus didn’t wear #51 in college, and b) Illinois once wore home pants that were almost-orange or almost-gold almost-metallic. Road pants were white; matched the Bears, and road jerseys has three thin navy stripes on sleeve, even thinner than 49ers. At the time, Illlini and Gophers were the Big Ten teams that looked the most different home & road. Gophers added maroon-gold shoulder loops and road pants were light gold.

    —Ricko

  • Marc M. | February 6, 2009 at 11:41 am |

    [quote comment=”313827″]Not uniform related but for all those who hate logo creep this, to me, is the most egregious example.

    Third item in this article.

    G-E-I-C-O instead of H-O-R-S-E… worst news ever.[/quote]
    Ugh!

  • Lomion | February 6, 2009 at 11:50 am |

    [quote comment=”313839″][quote comment=”313827″]Not uniform related but for all those who hate logo creep this, to me, is the most egregious example.

    Third item in this article.

    G-E-I-C-O instead of H-O-R-S-E… worst news ever.[/quote]
    Ugh![/quote]
    I think I’ll respond with a game of B-O-Y-C-O-T-T!

  • JRJR | February 6, 2009 at 11:54 am |

    Nice interview–LOVE the comment on the Browns. I grew up in Erie, PA, where you had to swear allegiance to Buffalo, Cleveland or Pittsburgh. You also had to automatically hate the other two teams.

    I came from a Cleveland family and I still can’t stand to see any Pitt. team win anything.

    Not only that Cleveland didn’t win, but we were also tortured with their football uniforms.

    http://i.cdn.turner....

    Always drove me nuts that it said “Browns” but the color was orange!

  • JMC | February 6, 2009 at 12:07 pm |

    slightly off topic help request— I’m trying to find a Dartmouth “D” patch, like the one on the front of this jacket:

    link

    Anyone know where that could be found? I’ve been looking around and can’t seem to find anyone selling that kind of patch, other than places that make custom ones.

  • Kek | February 6, 2009 at 12:09 pm |

    [quote comment=”313834″][quote comment=”313833″][quote comment=”313817″][quote comment=”313807″][quote comment=”313804″]Here’s that SI Cover (Chargers in royal in ’63)…
    http://vault.sportsi...

    —Ricko[/quote]

    here’s what they should look like

    /love the shield on the helmet!
    //the chelsea soccer link DID work earlier, i guess we farked it[/quote]

    re: Shield. San Diego was voted an “All-American City” or something that year. Have no idea by whom. Tijuana, perhaps.

    —Ricko[/quote]
    http://en.wikipedia....

    Good find. Had no idea that award was still around.[/quote]
    Indeed! My hometown (Johnstown, PA) won in 1972. Fans of the movie Slap Shot might recognize the logo because it’s a shoulder patch on the Chiefs jersey. http://www.post-gaze...

    The design of that Chiefs jersey was based on the Johnstown Jets of the NAHL (at the time, the Jets were also part of the older EHL): http://www.hansonbro...

    The Jets wore that patch on their jersey following Johnstown being honored and that’s probably how it ended up on the movie jersey.

  • Randy Miller | February 6, 2009 at 12:23 pm |

    Washington Huskies, Cal Bears, Pitt Panthers, Navy, Steelers, and original Raiders come to mind. Any others? Well, and Nebraska and UCLA had more ornate versions.

    ‘60 and ‘61 Raiders are only ones I recall with two-color numbers, though.

    Rice wore this style in the early ’60s. In fact, I think you had a photo of the Owls. Darrell Royal’s had a set of jerseys with these as well…but they were ONLY used on photo day.

  • Terri | February 6, 2009 at 12:25 pm |

    [quote comment=”313815″][quote comment=”313802″]I believe the Royals’ #12 in that Rochester-Boston photo is the great Maurice Stokes. And if you don’t know his story, you should.

    http://www.sportshol...

    Excellent reference. As a boy, I remember Jack Twyman as the color man on ABC’s (Always Boston Celtics) NBA team. He was a tireless Stokes advocate.

    Never saw Maurice play, but I believe all the things stated in the story.

    Twyman was a good color announcer, obviously a good player and an even better human being.[/quote]

    Stokes played for my school (St. Francis University). Our athletic building is named after him and his number is retired. Twyman (who was actually Stokes’ guardian after the injury) accepted Stokes’ induction into the HOF a few years ago, and he donated the ring and blazer to our school. They’re featured in the lobby of the Stokes building…pretty cool.

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 12:26 pm |

    [quote comment=”313844″]Washington Huskies, Cal Bears, Pitt Panthers, Navy, Steelers, and original Raiders come to mind. Any others? Well, and Nebraska and UCLA had more ornate versions.

    ‘60 and ‘61 Raiders are only ones I recall with two-color numbers, though.

    Rice wore this style in the early ’60s. In fact, I think you had a photo of the Owls. Darrell Royal’s had a set of jerseys with these as well…but they were ONLY used on photo day.[/quote]

    Knew for sure there was at least one I was forgetting. And, yes, Rice vs. Kansas in Bluebonnet Bowl…photo in RF #10. Thank you.

  • Nick | February 6, 2009 at 12:29 pm |

    [quote comment=”313811″]Somebody might want to tell Mr. Proctor that Steve Bisciotti now owns 99% of the Ravens and that the NFL gave a team called the Browns and a brand new stadium to Cleveland.[/quote]

    ########################

    That still does not change he fact that loyalty in pro sports, while at one time a fact – more in some places than in others – is now exposed as a fraud.

    It is a fact that Art Modell’s move to Baltimore severely diminished any attachment people may and should expect have to their local professional sports teams.

    His move, among many, diminished the loyalty and connection that people have with their professional sports teams, and in doing so coarsened our society and worsened our culture.

  • M.Princip | February 6, 2009 at 12:30 pm |

    [quote comment=”313838″][quote comment=”313836″]Anyone know what the stars on Dick Butkus’ helmet are for? Years of captaincy? Number of times being an All-American? Quarterbacks killed?

    http://i.cdn.turner....

    Also we’re reminded that a) Butkus didn’t wear #51 in college, and b) Illinois once wore home pants that were almost-orange or almost-gold almost-metallic. Road pants were white; matched the Bears, and road jerseys has three thin navy stripes on sleeve, even thinner than 49ers. At the time, Illlini and Gophers were the Big Ten teams that looked the most different home & road. Gophers added maroon-gold shoulder loops and road pants were light gold.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Crazy to see that BD-9 mask on a linebacker.

  • mako | February 6, 2009 at 12:31 pm |

    Man, there’s a lot to like in today’s column. Great interview with Terry Proctor; I LOVE that old Carolina jacket, and the Marquette unis (though it also looks like the blue circle around the numbers is smaller on the replicas than on the originals?). And as one of the few (?) soccer fans, I agree completely about the new Arsenal kit. Finally, while I knew the basics of the Maurice Stokes story, I didn’t know all the details. Jack Twyman is indeed an extraordinary man. Has anyone here actually seen the movie?

  • Nick | February 6, 2009 at 12:33 pm |

    [quote comment=”313831″]Here’s a nice cover featuring Northwestern’s 1963 uniforms…[/quote]

    Some of thise facemasks look like they are from the mid-1950s !!!

  • Randy Miller | February 6, 2009 at 12:34 pm |

    In fact, I think you had a photo of the Owls. Darrell Royal’s had a set of jerseys with these as well…but they were ONLY used on photo day.

    I misremembered on these. The photo jerseys had a big rounded TEXAS with a regular block number underneath.

    In recent years, Tulsa has worn those rounded numbers.

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 12:44 pm |

    [quote comment=”313847″][quote comment=”313811″]Somebody might want to tell Mr. Proctor that Steve Bisciotti now owns 99% of the Ravens and that the NFL gave a team called the Browns and a brand new stadium to Cleveland.[/quote]

    ########################

    That still does not change he fact that loyalty in pro sports, while at one time a fact – more in some places than in others – is now exposed as a fraud.

    It is a fact that Art Modell’s move to Baltimore severely diminished any attachment people may and should expect have to their local professional sports teams.

    His move, among many, diminished the loyalty and connection that people have with their professional sports teams, and in doing so coarsened our society and worsened our culture.[/quote]

    I think Robert Irsay deserves a little, um…”credit” in that area, too (see: Mayflower van leaving Baltimore early one snowy morning).

    So then, I guess Modell can point westward toward Indianapolis and say, “He STARTED it.”

  • M.Princip | February 6, 2009 at 12:45 pm |

    [quote comment=”313850″][quote comment=”313831″]Here’s a nice cover featuring Northwestern’s 1963 uniforms…[/quote]

    Some of thise facemasks look like they are from the mid-1950s !!![/quote]

    Wow! Great cover. Love everything about that uni set.

  • Lomion | February 6, 2009 at 12:50 pm |

    [quote comment=”313852″][quote comment=”313847″][quote comment=”313811″]Somebody might want to tell Mr. Proctor that Steve Bisciotti now owns 99% of the Ravens and that the NFL gave a team called the Browns and a brand new stadium to Cleveland.[/quote]

    ########################

    That still does not change he fact that loyalty in pro sports, while at one time a fact – more in some places than in others – is now exposed as a fraud.

    It is a fact that Art Modell’s move to Baltimore severely diminished any attachment people may and should expect have to their local professional sports teams.

    His move, among many, diminished the loyalty and connection that people have with their professional sports teams, and in doing so coarsened our society and worsened our culture.[/quote]

    I think Robert Irsay deserves a little, um…”credit” in that area, too (see: Mayflower van leaving Baltimore early one snowy morning).

    So then, I guess Modell can point westward toward Indianapolis and say, “He STARTED it.”[/quote]
    The classic “two wrongs making a right” scenario. I’m not even joking, my secondary loyalty is to the Ravens, and my opinion is, at least Cleveland got to keep their team name and records, so stop complaining.

  • Kek | February 6, 2009 at 12:56 pm |

    His move, among many, diminished the loyalty and connection that people have with their professional sports teams, and in doing so coarsened our society and worsened our culture.

    Wow, that’s a helluva a statement. Hyperbole? I mean, I know it’s hard for us sports fans to realize but there is a segment of the population that doesn’t care about sports.

    (see: Mayflower van leaving Baltimore early one snowy morning).

    To this day, I see a Mayflower on the road I think of that scene.

    Although the hatred for the Browns is still there in Steeler Nation, the Browns’ lack of success has taken some of the luster off that rivalry. The Ravens are the rival these days.

  • ken | February 6, 2009 at 1:03 pm |

    Gretzky typo. Beside the jersey. His name was mispelled in the NHL Guide & Record Book (I think it was 1984) I guess with the way he was scoring goals and getting point most of the other teams had a very different name for “99” altogeter.

  • marc | February 6, 2009 at 1:11 pm |

    “…at least Cleveland got to keep their team name and records, so stop complaining.”

    sometimes, i wish that hadn’t been the case. the current franchise is not the cleveland browns i grew up living and dying with on sunday afternoon back in the 70s and 80s. they’ve been an embarrassment since their “return” in 1999.

    at least if they’d been given a new identity, we may have been spared the ridiculousness of a contrived, corporate “dawg pound.” that is, unless some marketing geek in the NFL had gotten his mitts on it and decided to name the team (ugh) the “cleveland dawgs.” IMHO, that whole thing needs to be put down… STAT.

  • White Hammer | February 6, 2009 at 1:14 pm |

    [quote comment=”313811″]Somebody might want to tell Mr. Proctor that Steve Bisciotti now owns 99% of the Ravens and that the NFL gave a team called the Browns and a brand new stadium to Cleveland.[/quote]

    Exactly right…

    My first football memory is that snowy early morning in March 1984 when those Mayflower moving trucks took the Baltimore Colts away…I grew up without an NFL team because Bob Irsay got a better deal in Indianapolis…

    The city of Cleveland simply was not going to build a football stadium in the mid-’90s, even after building Gund Arena and Jacobs Field…Art Modell could not continue to lose money in that “mistake by the lake”…Since the Colts and Cardinals moved, Baltimore and St Louis had crafted the best stadium deals in the nation…After being utterly used as pawns in the expansion “competition” that resulted in the awarding of franchises to Charlotte and Jacksonville, it became clear that the NFL owners were reserving these prime situations for existing teams…Georgia Frontiere took the Rams to the Gateway City, and the following year Mr Modell made the only business decision he could possibly make as he took the floundering Browns franchise to Baltimore…

    Something Browns fans never have acknowledged: Art Modell is the best thing that ever happened to football in Cleveland…Without the move, the city would not have built the new stadium…Cleveland kept the name, the colors, and the history…Three years later, the Browns “resumed” play in a new stadium…

    Colts fans should have been so lucky…

    Art Modell deserves to be enshrined in Canton, not only for his contributions to making the league the TV powerhouse that it has become, but also for taking one failing franchise in a rotten facility and, with one move, making two viable teams — each in a new stadium…

    Yes, the Browns are down right now, but they nearly made the playoffs last year…They have the financial wherewithal to make the changes necessary to make a run next year…This would not have been possible if Mr Modell had not relocated…

    Mr Proctor, please don’t let your fanhood obscure your view of reality…You have a better franchise in a state-of-the-art stadium…And it’s all because of Art Modell…

  • Nick | February 6, 2009 at 1:16 pm |

    [quote comment=”313854″][quote comment=”313852″][quote comment=”313847″][quote comment=”313811″]Somebody might want to tell Mr. Proctor that Steve Bisciotti now owns 99% of the Ravens and that the NFL gave a team called the Browns and a brand new stadium to Cleveland.[/quote]

    ########################

    That still does not change he fact that loyalty in pro sports, while at one time a fact – more in some places than in others – is now exposed as a fraud.

    It is a fact that Art Modell’s move to Baltimore severely diminished any attachment people may and should expect have to their local professional sports teams.

    His move, among many, diminished the loyalty and connection that people have with their professional sports teams, and in doing so coarsened our society and worsened our culture.[/quote]

    I think Robert Irsay deserves a little, um…”credit” in that area, too (see: Mayflower van leaving Baltimore early one snowy morning).

    So then, I guess Modell can point westward toward Indianapolis and say, “He STARTED it.”[/quote]
    The classic “two wrongs making a right” scenario. I’m not even joking, my secondary loyalty is to the Ravens, and my opinion is, at least Cleveland got to keep their team name and records, so stop complaining.[/quote]

    ##################

    You are both right. Irsay started it in the modern NFL, and Modell picked up on it. Nonetheless, it is still a mess, and it has taken things away from us that will not be recovered.

    Granted, the area of team sports is many respects the “Toy Department” in the “Supermarket” of life. But it is important, and it does effect a lot of people, and I can not imagine the weight of the pain to have been a loyal Colts fan or Browns fan when the “owners” ripped those teams from those communities. The more involved, loyal and dedicated a fan that you were, the more it hurt.

    It is sad, and it is greedy, and it is what it is.
    The fact that years later the Cleveland replacement team got to keep their colors and records make this mess a slightly less horrible occurrance.

    That said, I hope another group of fans do not have to deal with this again anytime soon – though I fear that they will.

    I will now try to comment on unis.

  • olo | February 6, 2009 at 1:25 pm |

    [quote comment=”313840″][quote comment=”313839″][quote comment=”313827″]Not uniform related but for all those who hate logo creep this, to me, is the most egregious example.

    Third item in this article.

    G-E-I-C-O instead of H-O-R-S-E… worst news ever.[/quote]
    Ugh![/quote]
    I think I’ll respond with a game of B-O-Y-C-O-T-T![/quote]
    That’s too many letters.

  • LI Phil | February 6, 2009 at 1:26 pm |

    and now for today’s non sequitur

  • marc | February 6, 2009 at 1:28 pm |

    Although the hatred for the Browns is still there in Steeler Nation, the Browns’ lack of success has taken some of the luster off that rivalry. The Ravens are the rival these days.

    so, essentially it’s still the steelers-browns rivalry… with purple unis. the geography, fans and laundry have changed but the rivalry between the teams has not.

    i think we can all agree baltimore DEFINITELY got the cleaner end of the stick with this deal (a decent team, built-in rivalries, etc.), but they had to hold onto the stinkier end of the stick far longer than did we clevelanders. given the history of the neo-browns, however, it feels like we’re still hangin’ onto the smelly end…

  • MPowers1634 | February 6, 2009 at 1:34 pm |

    [quote comment=”313824″][quote comment=”313820″][quote comment=”313816″]Speaking of soccer, as a retro guy like Ricko, Tom Farley among others, I LOVED that rounded numeral font in use in the football league from the fifties, sixties and seventies, especially the 6’s and 9’s.

    I’m not good for posting pix, so if anyone can find good examples of shots from that era, please do so![/quote]

    Washington Huskies, Cal Bears, Pitt Panthers, Navy, Steelers, and original Raiders come to mind. Any others? Well, and Nebraska and UCLA had more ornate versions.

    ’60 and ’61 Raiders are only ones I recall with two-color numbers, though.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Here is Nebraska’s. This was the Cornhuskers’ worst uniform. It just did not fit the team’s image.

    http://i62.photobuck...

    I LOVE that font…

    BTW, Villanova’s men’s team has the same dot pattern as OU’s women’s team:

    http://bleacherrepor...

    http://iml.jou.ufl.e...

  • MPowers1634 | February 6, 2009 at 1:35 pm |

    [quote comment=”313848″][quote comment=”313838″][quote comment=”313836″]Anyone know what the stars on Dick Butkus’ helmet are for? Years of captaincy? Number of times being an All-American? Quarterbacks killed?

    http://i.cdn.turner....

    Also we’re reminded that a) Butkus didn’t wear #51 in college, and b) Illinois once wore home pants that were almost-orange or almost-gold almost-metallic. Road pants were white; matched the Bears, and road jerseys has three thin navy stripes on sleeve, even thinner than 49ers. At the time, Illlini and Gophers were the Big Ten teams that looked the most different home & road. Gophers added maroon-gold shoulder loops and road pants were light gold.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Crazy to see that BD-9 mask on a linebacker.[/quote]

    Absolutely

  • MPowers1634 | February 6, 2009 at 1:41 pm |

    [quote comment=”313842″]slightly off topic help request— I’m trying to find a Dartmouth “D” patch, like the one on the front of this jacket:

    link

    Anyone know where that could be found? I’ve been looking around and can’t seem to find anyone selling that kind of patch, other than places that make custom ones.[/quote]

    Some of that gear is BEAUTIFUL!

    My advice is to copy and paste the eimage from those sweaters into word.

    Crop the images, enlarge them, and Print them on card stock making templates.

    Welcome to the world of DIY!

  • Vern | February 6, 2009 at 1:56 pm |

    [quote comment=”313863″][quote comment=”313824″][quote comment=”313820″][quote comment=”313816″]Speaking of soccer, as a retro guy like Ricko, Tom Farley among others, I LOVED that rounded numeral font in use in the football league from the fifties, sixties and seventies, especially the 6’s and 9’s.

    I’m not good for posting pix, so if anyone can find good examples of shots from that era, please do so![/quote]

    Washington Huskies, Cal Bears, Pitt Panthers, Navy, Steelers, and original Raiders come to mind. Any others? Well, and Nebraska and UCLA had more ornate versions.

    ’60 and ’61 Raiders are only ones I recall with two-color numbers, though.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Here is Nebraska’s. This was the Cornhuskers’ worst uniform. It just did not fit the team’s image.

    http://i62.photobuck...

    I LOVE that font…

    BTW, Villanova’s men’s team has the same dot pattern as OU’s women’s team:

    http://bleacherrepor...

    http://iml.jou.ufl.e...

    Same with University of Washington men’s team, but only on the front and sides of the jersey.

    http://seattletimes....

    http://seattletimes....

  • marc | February 6, 2009 at 2:02 pm |

    I can not imagine the weight of the pain to have been a loyal Colts fan or Browns fan when the “owners” ripped those teams from those communities. The more involved, loyal and dedicated a fan that you were, the more it hurt.

    as a lifelong browns fan, i kinda feel a twinge of guilt when folks offer us sympathy but oiler fans are often overlooked while l.a. ram and st. louis cardinal fans are forgotten altogether, but i don’t feel too bad for l.a. and st. louis fans since they at least got a super bowl appearance somewhere along the way.

    years ago when teams moved (from larger cities, anyway), most times the city that suffered the relocation had another team in town (for example: ny, st. l, bos and phi baseball; chi football). i can understand the indignity of being forced to root for a cross-town rival (those poor giant and dodger fans), however, at least there’s still a team with your towns name attached to it and usually the team that stayed behind was the better team anyway (ok… maybe the phils were the exception).

  • Ryan Connelly 40 | February 6, 2009 at 2:07 pm |

    [quote comment=”313843″][quote comment=”313834″][quote comment=”313833″][quote comment=”313817″][quote comment=”313807″][quote comment=”313804″]Here’s that SI Cover (Chargers in royal in ’63)…
    http://vault.sportsi...

    —Ricko[/quote]

    here’s what they should look like

    /love the shield on the helmet!
    //the chelsea soccer link DID work earlier, i guess we farked it[/quote]

    re: Shield. San Diego was voted an “All-American City” or something that year. Have no idea by whom. Tijuana, perhaps.

    —Ricko[/quote]
    http://en.wikipedia....

    Good find. Had no idea that award was still around.[/quote]
    Indeed! My hometown (Johnstown, PA) won in 1972. Fans of the movie Slap Shot might recognize the logo because it’s a shoulder patch on the Chiefs jersey. http://www.post-gaze...

    The design of that Chiefs jersey was based on the Johnstown Jets of the NAHL (at the time, the Jets were also part of the older EHL): http://www.hansonbro...

    The Jets wore that patch on their jersey following Johnstown being honored and that’s probably how it ended up on the movie jersey.[/quote]

    kek, i think that is a “federal league” patch. i’m ALMOST certain… could be wrong though…

  • Ryan Connelly 40 | February 6, 2009 at 2:12 pm |

    “Being a lifelong Browns fan the Steelers are still and will always be a joke to me”

    just want to throw out the fact the the rooney’s were a HUGE part in getting a franchise back in cleveland… haha. i can definitely respect good trash talk though! great article/information too!!!

  • marc | February 6, 2009 at 2:13 pm |

    The uniforms will be worn in games (one home, one away) against Denver, Kansas City, Oakland or Tennessee. Those are the only original AFL teams on the Chargers’ schedule in 2009. Both teams will wear uniforms from their AFL days.

    wonder if the broncos’ll break out the vertical stripes…

  • Jason | February 6, 2009 at 2:16 pm |

    [quote comment=”313869″]”Being a lifelong Browns fan the Steelers are still and will always be a joke to me”

    just want to throw out the fact the the rooney’s were a HUGE part in getting a franchise back in cleveland… haha. i can definitely respect good trash talk though! great article/information too!!![/quote]

    And, not to mention, Steelers 6, Browns 0. Which team is a “joke” again?

  • marc | February 6, 2009 at 2:20 pm |

    just want to throw out the fact the the rooney’s were a HUGE part in getting a franchise back in cleveland

    funny how the owners of the steelers were more loyal to cleveland than the browns owners. the rooney’s earned my eternal respect with that move.

    speaking of the steelers, anyone know if they ever wore metal (i assume steel) helmets? i have a vague recollection of a profile photo of bobby layne wearing what appeared to be a metal helmet with a LARGE steeler logo similar to today’s logo with the exception being the text read “STEEL.” anyone?

  • LI Phil | February 6, 2009 at 2:24 pm |

    [quote]speaking of the steelers, anyone know if they ever wore metal (i assume steel) helmets?[/quote]

    wouldn’t that be, like, against the rules?

  • JRJR | February 6, 2009 at 2:28 pm |

    [quote comment=”313873″][quote]speaking of the steelers, anyone know if they ever wore metal (i assume steel) helmets?[/quote]

    wouldn’t that be, like, against the rules?[/quote]

    And, probably lethal?

  • marc | February 6, 2009 at 2:28 pm |

    And, not to mention, Steelers 6, Browns 0. Which team is a “joke” again?

    hey hey hey… let’s not forget the browns’ 4 nfl championships — and i don’t wanna hear any BS about how pre-super bowl titles don’t count. a championship is a championship.

    if you’re gonna discount the browns, you might as well say the celts didn’t earn their titles in the 50s because the ABA didn’t exist or the yankees don’t deserve their titles since there wasn’t an ALDS or ALCS.

  • marc | February 6, 2009 at 2:29 pm |

    [quote comment=”313874″][quote comment=”313873″][quote]speaking of the steelers, anyone know if they ever wore metal (i assume steel) helmets?[/quote]

    wouldn’t that be, like, against the rules?[/quote]

    And, probably lethal?[/quote]

    why would it be any more lethal than a hard plastic helmet? both of ’em could do some serious facial damage. i dunno… just asking.

  • JRJR | February 6, 2009 at 2:34 pm |

    [quote comment=”313876″][quote comment=”313874″][quote comment=”313873″][quote]speaking of the steelers, anyone know if they ever wore metal (i assume steel) helmets?[/quote]

    wouldn’t that be, like, against the rules?[/quote]

    And, probably lethal?[/quote]

    why would it be any more lethal than a hard plastic helmet? both of ’em could do some serious facial damage. i dunno… just asking.[/quote]

    I imagine the weight would be a big factor, but I have zero expertise in this field. Metal helmets just seemed crazy when I saw that post. MAYBE aluminum, but really…

    I love my football, but I always wonder what aliens would think if they arrived over a NFL game!

  • Lomion | February 6, 2009 at 2:51 pm |

    [quote comment=”313877″][quote comment=”313876″][quote comment=”313874″][quote comment=”313873″][quote]speaking of the steelers, anyone know if they ever wore metal (i assume steel) helmets?[/quote]

    wouldn’t that be, like, against the rules?[/quote]

    And, probably lethal?[/quote]

    why would it be any more lethal than a hard plastic helmet? both of ’em could do some serious facial damage. i dunno… just asking.[/quote]

    I imagine the weight would be a big factor, but I have zero expertise in this field. Metal helmets just seemed crazy when I saw that post. MAYBE aluminum, but really…

    I love my football, but I always wonder what aliens would think if they arrived over a NFL game![/quote]
    If they were going to put us all in arenas and make us fight for their amusement, they would probably be encouraged by football.

    If they were coming in peace, though, we might be in trouble. Hopefully they would also see the latest tv spot one player X’s charity work, and spare us based on that. God help us if they came during a report on Adam Jones or something

  • marc | February 6, 2009 at 2:52 pm |

    I imagine the weight would be a big factor, but I have zero expertise in this field. Metal helmets just seemed crazy when I saw that post. MAYBE aluminum, but really…

    i can’t believe i actually found the photo i mis-remembered. it must have been because the helmet was telling me it was “STEEL.”

  • Kek | February 6, 2009 at 2:53 pm |

    [quote comment=”313868″][quote comment=”313843″][quote comment=”313834″][quote comment=”313833″][quote comment=”313817″][quote comment=”313807″][quote comment=”313804″]Here’s that SI Cover (Chargers in royal in ’63)…
    http://vault.sportsi...

    —Ricko[/quote]

    here’s what they should look like

    /love the shield on the helmet!
    //the chelsea soccer link DID work earlier, i guess we farked it[/quote]

    re: Shield. San Diego was voted an “All-American City” or something that year. Have no idea by whom. Tijuana, perhaps.

    —Ricko[/quote]
    http://en.wikipedia....

    Good find. Had no idea that award was still around.[/quote]
    Indeed! My hometown (Johnstown, PA) won in 1972. Fans of the movie Slap Shot might recognize the logo because it’s a shoulder patch on the Chiefs jersey. http://www.post-gaze...

    The design of that Chiefs jersey was based on the Johnstown Jets of the NAHL (at the time, the Jets were also part of the older EHL): http://www.hansonbro...

    The Jets wore that patch on their jersey following Johnstown being honored and that’s probably how it ended up on the movie jersey.[/quote]

    kek, i think that is a “federal league” patch. i’m ALMOST certain… could be wrong though…[/quote]
    I think there was a Federal League patch, however, if you look at these two shots, I’m pretty sure it’s All-American City:

    http://slapshot.20m....
    http://slapshot.20m....

    Either way, it’ll give me an excuse to watch that movie this weekend. I’ve seen it dozens of times but really never watched it from a uniform perspective (at least in high detail)

  • Lomion | February 6, 2009 at 2:57 pm |

    [quote comment=”313879″]

    I imagine the weight would be a big factor, but I have zero expertise in this field. Metal helmets just seemed crazy when I saw that post. MAYBE aluminum, but really…

    i can’t believe i actually found the photo i mis-remembered. it must have been because the helmet was telling me it was “STEEL.”[/quote]
    Good thing they weren’t misprinted with the word “Steal” or you probably would have snuck into their equipment room and taken them all home with you.

  • JRJR | February 6, 2009 at 3:00 pm |

    [quote comment=”313878″][quote comment=”313877″][quote comment=”313876″][quote comment=”313874″][quote comment=”313873″][quote]speaking of the steelers, anyone know if they ever wore metal (i assume steel) helmets?[/quote]

    wouldn’t that be, like, against the rules?[/quote]

    And, probably lethal?[/quote]

    why would it be any more lethal than a hard plastic helmet? both of ’em could do some serious facial damage. i dunno… just asking.[/quote]

    I imagine the weight would be a big factor, but I have zero expertise in this field. Metal helmets just seemed crazy when I saw that post. MAYBE aluminum, but really…

    I love my football, but I always wonder what aliens would think if they arrived over a NFL game![/quote]
    If they were going to put us all in arenas and make us fight for their amusement, they would probably be encouraged by football.

    If they were coming in peace, though, we might be in trouble. Hopefully they would also see the latest tv spot one player X’s charity work, and spare us based on that. God help us if they came during a report on Adam Jones or something[/quote]

    There are many variables–let’s hope they concentrate on the uni’s!

  • Robb | February 6, 2009 at 3:00 pm |

    Probably one of the better football uniform builders, and its from Rawlings:

    http://www.rawlings....

  • Kek | February 6, 2009 at 3:01 pm |

    Let me just say that in no way would I ever discount any NFL titles pre-Super Bowl era. A friend of mine that was a fan of “The U” used to tell me that Pitt’s national titles before WWII don’t count!!!!

    And far be it from me to stick up for a BROWNS FAN….BUT….our wonderful Mr. Proctor graduated from college in ’67 according to the interview so he no doubt remembers an era when the Steelers truly were a joke, or at BEST a mediocre ballclub.

    A lot of yinzers think the Steelers’ history started with Chuck Noll and forget the fact that they really did suck beforehand when they played in Forbes Field and Pitt Stadium.

    Now, the rabid Steeler fan in me did chuckle when I first saw it, but whatever but hey, all’s fair in love and war!

  • Lwiedy | February 6, 2009 at 3:03 pm |

    [quote comment=”313859″][quote comment=”313854″][quote comment=”313852″][quote comment=”313847″][quote comment=”313811″]Somebody might want to tell Mr. Proctor that Steve Bisciotti now owns 99% of the Ravens and that the NFL gave a team called the Browns and a brand new stadium to Cleveland.[/quote]

    ########################

    That still does not change he fact that loyalty in pro sports, while at one time a fact – more in some places than in others – is now exposed as a fraud.

    It is a fact that Art Modell’s move to Baltimore severely diminished any attachment people may and should expect have to their local professional sports teams.

    His move, among many, diminished the loyalty and connection that people have with their professional sports teams, and in doing so coarsened our society and worsened our culture.[/quote]

    I think Robert Irsay deserves a little, um…”credit” in that area, too (see: Mayflower van leaving Baltimore early one snowy morning).

    So then, I guess Modell can point westward toward Indianapolis and say, “He STARTED it.”[/quote]
    The classic “two wrongs making a right” scenario. I’m not even joking, my secondary loyalty is to the Ravens, and my opinion is, at least Cleveland got to keep their team name and records, so stop complaining.[/quote]

    ##################

    You are both right. Irsay started it in the modern NFL, and Modell picked up on it.[/quote]

    It was Al Davis, not Irsey. Not only did he “make the first move”, he laid the groundwork for all other owners by taking the issue to court and winning. Once Davis pushed his move through, everybody knew it could be done without league approval.

  • Lwiedy | February 6, 2009 at 3:09 pm |

    I generally don’t have a problem with teams using nameplates, but this is a little much: http://cgi.ebay.com/...

  • Ryan Connelly 40 | February 6, 2009 at 3:10 pm |

    [quote comment=”313884″]Let me just say that in no way would I ever discount any NFL titles pre-Super Bowl era. A friend of mine that was a fan of “The U” used to tell me that Pitt’s national titles before WWII don’t count!!!!

    And far be it from me to stick up for a BROWNS FAN….BUT….our wonderful Mr. Proctor graduated from college in ’67 according to the interview so he no doubt remembers an era when the Steelers truly were a joke, or at BEST a mediocre ballclub.

    A lot of yinzers think the Steelers’ history started with Chuck Noll and forget the fact that they really did suck beforehand when they played in Forbes Field and Pitt Stadium.

    Now, the rabid Steeler fan in me did chuckle when I first saw it, but whatever but hey, all’s fair in love and war![/quote]

    let me re-word that for you… “an era when the Steelers truly were a joke at BEST!”

    there were some bad times back then!

  • timmy b | February 6, 2009 at 3:16 pm |

    [quote comment=”313866″][quote comment=”313863″][quote comment=”313824″][quote comment=”313820″][quote comment=”313816″]Speaking of soccer, as a retro guy like Ricko, Tom Farley among others, I LOVED that rounded numeral font in use in the football league from the fifties, sixties and seventies, especially the 6’s and 9’s.

    I’m not good for posting pix, so if anyone can find good examples of shots from that era, please do so![/quote]

    Washington Huskies, Cal Bears, Pitt Panthers, Navy, Steelers, and original Raiders come to mind. Any others? Well, and Nebraska and UCLA had more ornate versions.

    ’60 and ’61 Raiders are only ones I recall with two-color numbers, though.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Here is Nebraska’s. This was the Cornhuskers’ worst uniform. It just did not fit the team’s image.

    http://i62.photobuck...

    I LOVE that font…

    BTW, Villanova’s men’s team has the same dot pattern as OU’s women’s team:

    http://bleacherrepor...

    http://iml.jou.ufl.e...

    Same with University of Washington men’s team, but only on the front and sides of the jersey.

    http://seattletimes....

    http://seattletimes....

    I appreciate the help and the links. Very cool stuff!

    But here’s a link to what I actually meant:

    http://vault.sportsi...

    (4/20/70 issue) please go to pages 26-27 and you can see a little example of the Leeds players for what I really meant.

    Also – and this is a must – please go to p.37 to see a GREAT helmet display of the 1970 NFL teams!

  • Lomion | February 6, 2009 at 3:19 pm |

    [quote comment=\”313887\”][quote comment=\”313884\”]Let me just say that in no way would I ever discount any NFL titles pre-Super Bowl era. A friend of mine that was a fan of \”The U\” used to tell me that Pitt\’s national titles before WWII don\’t count!!!!

    And far be it from me to stick up for a BROWNS FAN….BUT….our wonderful Mr. Proctor graduated from college in \’67 according to the interview so he no doubt remembers an era when the Steelers truly were a joke, or at BEST a mediocre ballclub.

    A lot of yinzers think the Steelers\’ history started with Chuck Noll and forget the fact that they really did suck beforehand when they played in Forbes Field and Pitt Stadium.

    Now, the rabid Steeler fan in me did chuckle when I first saw it, but whatever but hey, all\’s fair in love and war![/quote]

    let me re-word that for you… \”an era when the Steelers truly were a joke at BEST!\”

    there were some bad times back then![/quote]
    I love all this talk recently about the Steelers being the best franchise ever. Seems pretty typical of people lionizing the \”Super Bowl Era\” (of which I suppose the Steelers are the best team).

    Still, it seems idiotic to put them above all the teams that have had successful runs of more than 35 years.

  • gusto | February 6, 2009 at 3:25 pm |

    Kek and Browns Fans,

    While 1968-69, and pre NFL Titles are important, they aren’t as valuable as Super Bowl victories because of the higher level of competition. This is an historical fact, because of the success of the AFL. The advent of the 1960s brought more talent, coaching, and innovation than ever before as pro football exploded in popularity. From primarily NFL rejects in 1960, the AFL improved so quickly, that by Super Bowl 4, one of their wildcard teams had crushed the NFL champ to even the Super Bowl competition at two wins apiece.

  • Tony In Erie | February 6, 2009 at 3:46 pm |

    Regarding the first few comments of the day, about the San Diego Chargers plans to wear another throwback style jersey…

    Anyone ever wonder if the NFL is in danger of losing a “trademark” with so many uniforms?

    Follow my logic here.

    When I was young, I was a big Terry Labonte fan. He drove the Kellogg’s #5 Chevy Monte Carlo. You could always tell who he was on the track, for its yellow, red, and green paint scheme. Same thing for Jeff Gordon (the Rainbow Warrior), and ESPECIALLY Dale Earnhardt.

    But now, it seems as though each one of the cars in the circuit have different paint schemes every week. The number, driver, crew, and owners are the same…even the sponsors are sometimes the same…but it just doesn’t look like the same car.

    Do you feel by having an alternate jersey and a throwback or two throughout a 16 game schedule…that eventually a team may lose its “signature” look?

    I know this seems sort of out there as a subject, but give it a thought. I’d love to know what everyone thinks.

    Either that or you can call me an idiot. Its Friday and its no big deal. LOL

  • Lwiedy | February 6, 2009 at 3:48 pm |

    [quote comment=”313890″]Kek and Browns Fans,

    While 1968-69, and pre NFL Titles are important, they aren’t as valuable as Super Bowl victories because of the higher level of competition. This is an historical fact, because of the success of the AFL. The advent of the 1960s brought more talent, coaching, and innovation than ever before as pro football exploded in popularity. From primarily NFL rejects in 1960, the AFL improved so quickly, that by Super Bowl 4, one of their wildcard teams had crushed the NFL champ to even the Super Bowl competition at two wins apiece.[/quote]

    Valuable? How is that measured?

    This is ridiculous. The whole “Super Bowl era” thing is based solely on laziness. Hard to remember who won in ’53, so I’ll just start in ’66 or ’70 because it’s easier.

    Are you saying that all sports championships won “pre-expansion” have less meaning? Do NFL titles won in the ‘50s mean more than those won in the ‘40s (before the Browns, 49ers joined the NFL)?

    As for the success of the AFL/AFC, three of their first seven SB wins were by hijacked NFL teams.

  • marc | February 6, 2009 at 3:51 pm |

    While 1968-69, and pre NFL Titles are important, they aren’t as valuable as Super Bowl victories because of the higher level of competition. This is an historical fact, because of the success of the AFL. The advent of the 1960s brought more talent, coaching, and innovation than ever before as pro football exploded in popularity. From primarily NFL rejects in 1960, the AFL improved so quickly, that by Super Bowl 4, one of their wildcard teams had crushed the NFL champ to even the Super Bowl competition at two wins apiece.

    i see your point, but i disagree. you think what the jets and chiefs did was amazing? the browns — 1 team, mind you — came from 4 seasons in the aafc (winning all four aafc titles) and landed in the nfl championship game in each of their first seven seasons in the league (1950 – 1955), winning three nfl titles along the way. paul brown revolutionized pro football and, it can be argued very convincingly, made the innovations of the 1960s possible.

  • marc | February 6, 2009 at 3:55 pm |

    all that plus try telling a packer fan that 9 of his titles dont count.

  • marc | February 6, 2009 at 3:56 pm |

    [quote comment=”313881″][quote comment=”313879″]

    I imagine the weight would be a big factor, but I have zero expertise in this field. Metal helmets just seemed crazy when I saw that post. MAYBE aluminum, but really…

    i can’t believe i actually found the photo i mis-remembered. it must have been because the helmet was telling me it was “STEEL.”[/quote]
    Good thing they weren’t misprinted with the word “Steal” or you probably would have snuck into their equipment room and taken them all home with you.[/quote]

    LMAO!!!!

  • Tony In Erie | February 6, 2009 at 3:58 pm |

    Who played the halftime show at the 1953 NFL championship? Thats whats important! And whether or not she wore a pink Cleveland Browns jersey!

  • gusto | February 6, 2009 at 4:02 pm |

    lwiedy and marc,

    Please read any history on the NFL, the AFL had the single greatest impact, forcing the merger in 1970. Who cares how many original AFL teams won the Super Bowl in the first seven years? Ever hear of the Miami Dolphins and Oakland Raiders?
    Yes, those four NFL titles were impressive in the 1950s, and Paul Brown was a great coach/innovator. But you can’t compare his contribution to the stream of talent,coaches, and schemes that entered pro football in the 1960s. Ever hear of Sid Gilliam,father of the pro passing game? That’s why Super Bowl era wins are more valuable than regular NFL titles.

  • marc | February 6, 2009 at 4:24 pm |

    lwiedy and marc,

    Please read any history on the NFL, the AFL had the single greatest impact, forcing the merger in 1970. Who cares how many original AFL teams won the Super Bowl in the first seven years? Ever hear of the Miami Dolphins and Oakland Raiders?
    Yes, those four NFL titles were impressive in the 1950s, and Paul Brown was a great coach/innovator. But you can’t compare his contribution to the stream of talent,coaches, and schemes that entered pro football in the 1960s. Ever hear of Sid Gilliam,father of the pro passing game? That’s why Super Bowl era wins are more valuable than regular NFL titles.

    ever hear of paul brown, “father of the modern offense?” ever hear of otto graham, marion motley, dante lavelli, lou groza, bill willis, len ford, bobby mitchell, paul warfield, mike mccormack, frank gatski, leroy kelly and some guy named jim brown? ALL H.O.F.’ers that were scouted, drafted and coached by paul brown. the nfl coach with the most super bowl wins? chuck noll. drafted by? yup… paul brown. paul brown was much more than just a great coach.

    the impact of the afl was primarily monetary. they had a great tv contract which allowed them to cut in on the nfl’s non-nfl market revenue with which they subsequently began outbidding the nfl for players and staff, so of course they had a wealth of talent… they were luring it away from the nfl.

    bottom line… a championship is a championship is a championship. it doesn’t mean that the team that won it 50 years ago could beat the steelers of today. the game is so completely different, for better or worse. what it means is the team that won it was the best team that particular season and nobody can take that away from them.

  • JF in DC | February 6, 2009 at 4:26 pm |

    Terry, thanks for the great interview. I’m a Rochester native now living in the DC area. I remember Ruby’s well, along with other Rochester area independent sporting goods stores, like Muxworthies and Gauz, whuich I believe was on South Ave. Sadly, I believe they’re all long gone now. Use to shop for NFL, NHL, and MLB stuff at those stores, as mail-order for much merchandise was non-existent.

    Yes, the Browns still have a large fan base in Rochester because Rochester was in the Browns’ “territory” back in the 60’s.

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 4:32 pm |

    [quote comment=”313897″]lwiedy and marc,

    Please read any history on the NFL, the AFL had the single greatest impact, forcing the merger in 1970. Who cares how many original AFL teams won the Super Bowl in the first seven years? Ever hear of the Miami Dolphins and Oakland Raiders?
    Yes, those four NFL titles were impressive in the 1950s, and Paul Brown was a great coach/innovator. But you can’t compare his contribution to the stream of talent,coaches, and schemes that entered pro football in the 1960s. Ever hear of Sid Gilliam,father of the pro passing game? That’s why Super Bowl era wins are more valuable than regular NFL titles.[/quote]

    That is patently absurd. Of course the game has become better with players bigger and faster, performing at a level far above that of the 1950s and ’60s. Duh. Isn’t that so in EVERY sport? Saying that Super Bowl wins are “more valuable” is like saying Bobby Thomson’s home run in ’51 was a skanky little hit in a nothing little playoff game leading to a second-rate World Series because the Royals and Rockies weren’t around yet to improve things.

    At title…is a title. Following pro football history does require doing a little homework because Super Bowls starting with I, II and III does make the counting easier, while at the same time evidently confusing people by insinuating the NFL restarted time itself following the ’66 season, rejecting all that had come before. That created some sort of B.C./A.D. mentality about pro football, that the “B.C” stuff is ancient and irrelevant because, I dunno, it was before electricity or something.

    No one says anything that boneheaded about the NBA, NHL or MLB. Why is pro football different?

    Let’s decide which Canadiens’ Stanley Cups should REALLY count, shall we?

    —Ricko

  • Lwiedy | February 6, 2009 at 4:33 pm |

    [quote comment=”313897″]lwiedy and marc,

    Please read any history on the NFL, the AFL had the single greatest impact, forcing the merger in 1970. Who cares how many original AFL teams won the Super Bowl in the first seven years? Ever hear of the Miami Dolphins and Oakland Raiders?
    Yes, those four NFL titles were impressive in the 1950s, and Paul Brown was a great coach/innovator. But you can’t compare his contribution to the stream of talent,coaches, and schemes that entered pro football in the 1960s. Ever hear of Sid Gilliam,father of the pro passing game? That’s why Super Bowl era wins are more valuable than regular NFL titles.[/quote]

    All a FINANCIALLY competitive AFL did was water down the NFL, thus even the field. Doesn’t necessarily make it better (or maybe it does). Fact is there is no way to quantify what you are saying. Your claim that “those championships are more valuable is a historical fact” cannot be proven, so why make it?

  • Lwiedy | February 6, 2009 at 4:37 pm |

    [quote comment=”313897″]lwiedy and marc,

    Please read any history on the NFL, the AFL had the single greatest impact, forcing the merger in 1970. Who cares how many original AFL teams won the Super Bowl in the first seven years? Ever hear of the Miami Dolphins and Oakland Raiders?
    Yes, those four NFL titles were impressive in the 1950s, and Paul Brown was a great coach/innovator. But you can’t compare his contribution to the stream of talent,coaches, and schemes that entered pro football in the 1960s. Ever hear of Sid Gilliam,father of the pro passing game? That’s why Super Bowl era wins are more valuable than regular NFL titles.[/quote]

    The US victory in WWII was far more “valuable” than the Revolutionary War because the bombs went faster.

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 4:41 pm |

    [quote comment=”313902″][quote comment=”313897″]lwiedy and marc,

    Please read any history on the NFL, the AFL had the single greatest impact, forcing the merger in 1970. Who cares how many original AFL teams won the Super Bowl in the first seven years? Ever hear of the Miami Dolphins and Oakland Raiders?
    Yes, those four NFL titles were impressive in the 1950s, and Paul Brown was a great coach/innovator. But you can’t compare his contribution to the stream of talent,coaches, and schemes that entered pro football in the 1960s. Ever hear of Sid Gilliam,father of the pro passing game? That’s why Super Bowl era wins are more valuable than regular NFL titles.[/quote]

    The US victory in WWII was far more “valuable” than the Revolutionary War because the bombs went faster.[/quote]

    AND, we have better footage of it.

  • Larry Bodnovich | February 6, 2009 at 4:42 pm |

    [quote comment=”313890″]Kek and Browns Fans,

    While 1968-69, and pre NFL Titles are important, they aren’t as valuable as Super Bowl victories because of the higher level of competition. This is an historical fact, because of the success of the AFL. The advent of the 1960s brought more talent, coaching, and innovation than ever before as pro football exploded in popularity. From primarily NFL rejects in 1960, the AFL improved so quickly, that by Super Bowl 4, one of their wildcard teams had crushed the NFL champ to even the Super Bowl competition at two wins apiece.[/quote]

    An NFL title is an NFL title. The Browns have 4. Let me ask then why the Steelers could not win any NFL titles before the Super Bowl? They never even won a division title for about 40 years.

    There is no doubt right now the Steelers have a good organization. I love college football way more. Pro sports are business. It is all about having good management and good owners. The Steelers are lucky they did not yet have an owner who up and moved the team like Modell did.

    And let us not forget the Rams began in Cleveland. SO Cleveland has at least another NFL title.

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 4:45 pm |

    “And let us not forget the Rams began in Cleveland. SO Cleveland has at least another NFL title.”

    Oh, Larry, now you’re just being silly. That’s Rams title isn’t as important. The game wasn’t even on television.

  • Larry Bodnovich | February 6, 2009 at 4:51 pm |
  • gusto | February 6, 2009 at 4:52 pm |

    Marc,

    Take time to read my original post, I wasn’t putting down regular NFL titles. Those were great clubs and were the best of the level of competition for their era. Yes, the Browns had a very good decade in the 1960’s with the stars you mentioned, and the one NFL title. A Browns-Bills matchup would have been interesting in 1964.
    Your point about the monetary impact leaves out the fact of the great scouting,and coaching that enabled AFL clubs to recruit talent from small black colleges. The NFL was very slow to integrate, and also played a very conservative style of football. It was the quality of the on-field product that enabled the AFL to increase attendance,TV ratings which earned the big TV deal. Remember, it was the success of the AFL that forced the merger. Read any history of the NFL, I’m just telling it the way it is. Super Bowl era titles are considered more valuable than regular NFL titles because of the level of competiton.

  • LI Phil | February 6, 2009 at 4:53 pm |

    wake me when we start discussing unis again ;)

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 4:56 pm |

    Also 1959 Iowa Hawkeyes…
    http://img.photobuck...

    Some things never change. LOL

    Love those figures, btw.

  • Larry Bodnovich | February 6, 2009 at 4:59 pm |

    AH Sid Gillman as a Buckeye in one of my all time favorite Ohio State uniforms and helmets

    Nick should recognize this

    http://img.photobuck...

  • marc | February 6, 2009 at 5:03 pm |

    And let us not forget the Rams began in Cleveland. SO Cleveland has at least another NFL title.

    lest we forget the RAVENS. chalk up another cleveland title! LOL!

    the (real) browns get no respect in the post-merger era and it’s a dang shame. mention otto graham to most people under 35 and they have no clue. the man was far and away the best QB of his era… and there was no shortage of great QBs in the 50s.

  • gusto | February 6, 2009 at 5:06 pm |

    Ricko,

    Please read all of my posts, I’ve said nothing about quality of play, certainly athletes improve with time. What makes the NFL different than the other leagues is the profound impact of a rival league(AFL), which enabled the NFL to double in size in 1970. In fact,there was a large, untapped pool of talent,coaching,and tactics adopted by the AFL which forced the merger. That’s the difference between the NFL and MLB,NBA, and NHL. I’ve never said Super Bowl era titles are MUCH more valuable than regular NFL titles, but there’s no doubt the dramatic success AFL raised the overall level of competition during starting in the 1960s.

  • marc | February 6, 2009 at 5:07 pm |

    [quote comment=”313908″]wake me when we start discussing unis again ;)[/quote]

    sorry phil… check out otto wearing chucks!

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 5:11 pm |

    [quote comment=”313912″]Ricko,

    Please read all of my posts, I’ve said nothing about quality of play, certainly athletes improve with time. What makes the NFL different than the other leagues is the profound impact of a rival league(AFL), which enabled the NFL to double in size in 1970. In fact,there was a large, untapped pool of talent,coaching,and tactics adopted by the AFL which forced the merger. That’s the difference between the NFL and MLB,NBA, and NHL. I’ve never said Super Bowl era titles are MUCH more valuable than regular NFL titles, but there’s no doubt the dramatic success AFL raised the overall level of competition during starting in the 1960s.[/quote]

    I’ll give you that, no other league had such a profound change so quickly. But even the improvement of play, no matter how, or how rapidly, it happened, makes a title in ’73 “more valuable” than a title in ’53. That was the “tilt” of it for me.

  • Larry Bodnovich | February 6, 2009 at 5:12 pm |

    [quote comment=”313909″]Also 1959 Iowa Hawkeyes…
    http://img.photobuck...

    Some things never change. LOL

    Love those figures, btw.[/quote]

    Yep Ricko just like the Hawkeyes. ANd that is the style helmet and jersey I had as a kid. I may still have the pants in the cellar with some pads. One day I will hunt for them. I wish I had the jersey.

    And thos figures were pretty good. I saved a few hundred pictures of the figures and will share them periodically.

  • Lwiedy | February 6, 2009 at 5:17 pm |

    [quote comment=”313912″]Ricko,

    I’ve never said Super Bowl era titles are MUCH more valuable than regular NFL titles, [/quote]

    Oh, it’s not MUCH more valuable, just more vaulable. Now I’ve got it.

  • gusto | February 6, 2009 at 5:18 pm |

    Ricko,

    When I use the word valuable, I’m not demeaning the regular NFL title holders. But the 1953 NFL champion also fielded very few African-American players, another byproduct of the lesser competition of the day.
    Put another way, had there been no AFL, there would have been no 1972-73 Miami Dolphins, who absolutely dominated the 1972-73 NFL champions.

  • Lwiedy | February 6, 2009 at 5:19 pm |

    Uni Watch may want to consider “adopting” this young man as he begins his collegiate career:
    http://www.gousfbull...

  • Larry | February 6, 2009 at 5:26 pm |

    [quote comment=”313911″]

    And let us not forget the Rams began in Cleveland. SO Cleveland has at least another NFL title.

    lest we forget the RAVENS. chalk up another cleveland title! LOL!

    the (real) browns get no respect in the post-merger era and it’s a dang shame. mention otto graham to most people under 35 and they have no clue. the man was far and away the best QB of his era… and there was no shortage of great QBs in the 50s.[/quote]

    As one who loves sports history and football history I know what you mean gusto

    I live a mile from Pa line and have to see all the Steeler fans and stuff when I go into Pa. My relatives grew up in SW Pa and are Steeler fans. My mom and dad grew up in SW Pa but moved to NE Ohio for work. My dad loved sports and told us how he went to the very first Cleveland Browns AAC game vs the Miami Seahawks. He also told us he was at the Browns game when Otto Grahams jaw got broke. Maybe vs the old 49ers.

    But my dad was always a Steeler fan

  • marc | February 6, 2009 at 5:27 pm |

    [quote comment=”313912″]Ricko,

    Please read all of my posts, I’ve said nothing about quality of play, certainly athletes improve with time. What makes the NFL different than the other leagues is the profound impact of a rival league(AFL), which enabled the NFL to double in size in 1970. In fact,there was a large, untapped pool of talent,coaching,and tactics adopted by the AFL which forced the merger. That’s the difference between the NFL and MLB,NBA, and NHL. I’ve never said Super Bowl era titles are MUCH more valuable than regular NFL titles, but there’s no doubt the dramatic success AFL raised the overall level of competition during starting in the 1960s.[/quote]

    good points, but what the merger really did was force the sport to evolve — much like the innovation of the forward pass or the use of hashmarks. the afl wisely chose to exploit what the nfl ignored or cast aside. the afl had good business sense. they figuratively ran an end-around on the nfl and beat them at their own game.

    you could make the argument that the same type of evolution happened when baseball integrated. there was (sadly) a large untapped pool there as well, but nobody ever says “yeah, the 1927 yankees were great, but their world series title wasn’t as valuable as any they won after 1948 because there weren’t any african-americans in the league.” that might be a valid statement, but nobody says it. why? because it’s ludicrous and baseball fans know it. titles are titles. a champion is a champion no matter the era. that and i would think it’s a pretty safe bet that african-americans had a larger impact on baseball (and sports in general) than anything the afl accomplished.

  • Cosmo | February 6, 2009 at 5:29 pm |

    Look at the helmets in this pic from Todd Haley’s press conference:
    http://i8.photobucke...

    I’ve never seen any Chiefs players wearing those. Makes me wonder if they all will be next season.

  • Cosmo | February 6, 2009 at 5:30 pm |

    ok… I always forget which link to use… how about this one:

    http://i8.photobucke...

  • Lwiedy | February 6, 2009 at 5:32 pm |

    [quote comment=”313917″]Ricko,

    When I use the word valuable, I’m not demeaning the regular NFL title holders. But the 1953 NFL champion also fielded very few African-American players, another byproduct of the lesser competition of the day.
    Put another way, had there been no AFL, there would have been no 1972-73 Miami Dolphins, who absolutely dominated the 1972-73 NFL champions.[/quote]

    Look, no one has said the merger didn’t have a positive impact. Why is so important to assign “value” to championships? You mentioned “read any history on the NFL”, where does anyone say titles “became more valuable”?

  • Lwiedy | February 6, 2009 at 5:34 pm |

    [quote comment=”313921″]Look at the helmets in this pic from Todd Haley’s press conference:
    http://i8.photobucke...

    I’ve never seen any Chiefs players wearing those. Makes me wonder if they all will be next season.[/quote]

    I thought it was up to the player.

  • marc | February 6, 2009 at 5:39 pm |

    [quote comment=”313923″][quote comment=”313917″]Ricko,

    When I use the word valuable, I’m not demeaning the regular NFL title holders. But the 1953 NFL champion also fielded very few African-American players, another byproduct of the lesser competition of the day.
    Put another way, had there been no AFL, there would have been no 1972-73 Miami Dolphins, who absolutely dominated the 1972-73 NFL champions.[/quote]

    Look, no one has said the merger didn’t have a positive impact. Why is so important to assign “value” to championships? You mentioned “read any history on the NFL”, where does anyone say titles “became more valuable”?[/quote]

    amen!

  • Nick | February 6, 2009 at 5:43 pm |

    [quote comment=”313870″]

    The uniforms will be worn in games (one home, one away) against Denver, Kansas City, Oakland or Tennessee. Those are the only original AFL teams on the Chargers’ schedule in 2009. Both teams will wear uniforms from their AFL days.

    wonder if the broncos’ll break out the vertical stripes…[/quote]

    #######################

    That would be sweet.

    Throwback Unis aren’t just because they might look good – it’s nice to see even the Broncos original unis – they are the crazy “leisure suit” versions of certain uniform choices.

    That, plus the fact that a (then) new pro team, the original Broncos, bought their Brown & Yellow uniforms SECOND HAND (!!!) from somewhere else to begin their history.

  • peter | February 6, 2009 at 5:45 pm |

    Sean Avery is *(possibly) coming back to the Rangers and would play in Hartford!! That would be a great Uni Cameo!!

    ((Feb. 14th is Nigel Dawes Bobble head night!!))

  • LI Phil | February 6, 2009 at 5:50 pm |

    [quote comment=”313922″]ok… I always forget which link to use… how about this one:

    http://i8.photobucke...

    powers just came a little

  • Lwiedy | February 6, 2009 at 5:54 pm |

    [quote comment=”313928″]Sean Avery is *(possibly) coming back to the Rangers…[/quote]

    Blue Shirts taking Dallas’ sloppy seconds?

  • Katie | February 6, 2009 at 6:15 pm |

    interesting footwear here. is that ref wearing high top chucks?

    http://images.google...

  • Jason | February 6, 2009 at 6:22 pm |

    love this picture. and payton has “sweetness” printed on his hand towel as well as the cowboy with his number on his pants.

    http://vault.sportsi...

  • Jordan Pope | February 6, 2009 at 6:24 pm |

    [quote comment=”313929″][quote comment=”313922″]ok… I always forget which link to use… how about this one:

    http://i8.photobucke...

    powers just came a little[/quote]

    he’s probably still cleaning up his keyboard

  • Chris Yarbrough | February 6, 2009 at 6:26 pm |

    If Memphis wears their home whites against Gonzaga tomorrow, that will make two consecutive road games where the Tigers have worn white. They sported white against SMU Wednesday night.
    http://media.commerc...

    Kind of an odd occurrence.

  • Larry | February 6, 2009 at 6:44 pm |

    A few days ago there may have been talk about the color of the Colts old uniforms and Miami Seahawks.

    I said my dad was at that 1st Seahwaks Browns game in the old AAFC.

    Here are figures from that years Browns and Seahawks. Can anybody verify the colors of the Seahawks?

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

  • Mike | February 6, 2009 at 6:59 pm |

    So not to be a nitpicker, but aren\’t there several apostrophe errors in this post? Seems kinda ridiculous after two posts detailing how bad they are…

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 7:03 pm |

    [quote comment=”313935″]A few days ago there may have been talk about the color of the Colts old uniforms and Miami Seahawks.

    I said my dad was at that 1st Seahwaks Browns game in the old AAFC.

    Here are figures from that years Browns and Seahawks. Can anybody verify the colors of the Seahawks?

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    Did the Browns even HAVE a brown jersey in the AAFC? Always wondered about that. They were lone team to wear white at home, so they very well could have had just whites. Only photos I’ve ever seen of the brown jerseys were after they’d joined the NFL.

    Miami Seahawks? Heard two versions on that. Mostly orange & blue, but recently someone mentioned green & silver. TimmyB would be the one who’d probably know.

    —Ricko

  • Jeremy Whiting | February 6, 2009 at 7:13 pm |

    Thought this article might be of interest…

    http://goal.blogs.ny...

  • Larry | February 6, 2009 at 7:23 pm |

    [quote comment=”313937″][quote comment=”313935″]A few days ago there may have been talk about the color of the Colts old uniforms and Miami Seahawks.

    I said my dad was at that 1st Seahwaks Browns game in the old AAFC.

    Here are figures from that years Browns and Seahawks. Can anybody verify the colors of the Seahawks?

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    Did the Browns even HAVE a brown jersey in the AAFC? Always wondered about that. They were lone team to wear white at home, so they very well could have had just whites. Only photos I’ve ever seen of the brown jerseys were after they’d joined the NFL.

    Miami Seahawks? Heard two versions on that. Mostly orange & blue, but recently someone mentioned green & silver. TimmyB would be the one who’d probably know.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Not sure about the Brown jersey. I have seen mostly white ones in the old pictures. As I said I have no idea how accurate that guys figures were. He said he studied them. And yes it was green and silver I saw here for the Miami Seahawks colors. That is why I asked of those figures were right or not.

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 8:13 pm |

    Wasn’t it something like the AAFC Seahawks moved to Baltimore as the first Colts, and then subsequently folded. Later (’52 or so), the NFL Dallas Texans moved to Baltimore to become the second Colts. I always figured that second team was the green and silver…but maybe not.

    As I said, if anyone will know it’ll be TimmyB.

    —Ricko

  • timmy b | February 6, 2009 at 8:20 pm |

    [quote comment=”313940″][quote comment=”313937″][quote comment=”313935″]A few days ago there may have been talk about the color of the Colts old uniforms and Miami Seahawks.

    I said my dad was at that 1st Seahwaks Browns game in the old AAFC.

    Here are figures from that years Browns and Seahawks. Can anybody verify the colors of the Seahawks?

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    Did the Browns even HAVE a brown jersey in the AAFC? Always wondered about that. They were lone team to wear white at home, so they very well could have had just whites. Only photos I’ve ever seen of the brown jerseys were after they’d joined the NFL.

    Miami Seahawks? Heard two versions on that. Mostly orange & blue, but recently someone mentioned green & silver. TimmyB would be the one who’d probably know.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Not sure about the Brown jersey. I have seen mostly white ones in the old pictures. As I said I have no idea how accurate that guys figures were. He said he studied them. And yes it was green and silver I saw here for the Miami Seahawks colors. That is why I asked of those figures were right or not.[/quote]

    As far as the Miami Seahawks go, this is the one of the most difficult for me to confirm. http://www.ssur.org lists the colors as orange and white. I have seen circulating somewhere a team photo with apparently orange jerseys and darker numerals (blue?). The Seahawks certainly bears further research.

    The AAFC Browns definitely wore brown jerseys all thru their years in the AAFC. They had orange numerals with white drop shadow in 1946, then went with conventional white numerals from 1947 thru 1949. However, the socks stripes worn with the brown shirts were orange-white-orange-white-orange as opposed to the sleeve stripes of white-orange-white-orange-white.

    It ain’t much, but hope this is of some help.

  • Larry | February 6, 2009 at 8:38 pm |

    haha timmy b, I just was going to link the site you did saying the Seahawkks colors were orange and white. When my dad was alive I do not think we asked what colors the Seahawks wore. He probably would not have remembered though. A few years before he died we took him to the Pro Hall of Fame and they did have things about the Browns 1st AAFC game he was at.

    and thanks for the other information you provided

  • Larry | February 6, 2009 at 8:41 pm |

    And I just found an SI about Cleveland. It has a picture of Mac Speedie at night but does not say the year. The Browns are wearing dark or brown jerseys and it looks for sure like orange helmets and a white ball.

  • peter | February 6, 2009 at 8:56 pm |

    Weird seeing the Rangers in Blue on the road…

  • Ricko | February 6, 2009 at 9:09 pm |

    [quote comment=”313944″]And I just found an SI about Cleveland. It has a picture of Mac Speedie at night but does not say the year. The Browns are wearing dark or brown jerseys and it looks for sure like orange helmets and a white ball.[/quote]

    That begs another question for TommyB. It always appeared to me that the Browns’ orange helmets didn’t come along until they had joined the NFL. Is that true, I wonder? And, also, did the AAFC ever use a white ball?

    —Ricko

  • Loren J. | February 6, 2009 at 9:18 pm |

    RE: Texas Rangers Outerwear
    Ok, now that the Texas Rangers have changed their Game Uniforms to “TEXAS” instead of “RANGERS” (the home whites, especially)

    Won’t they now have to change the wordmark of the Team Jackets? From the cursive “RANGERS” to the block letter “TEXAS”?

  • Larry | February 6, 2009 at 9:26 pm |

    [quote comment=”313946″][quote comment=”313944″]And I just found an SI about Cleveland. It has a picture of Mac Speedie at night but does not say the year. The Browns are wearing dark or brown jerseys and it looks for sure like orange helmets and a white ball.[/quote]

    That begs another question for TommyB. It always appeared to me that the Browns’ orange helmets didn’t come along until they had joined the NFL. Is that true, I wonder? And, also, did the AAFC ever use a white ball?

    —Ricko[/quote]
    Good question. The magazine did not say the year and when I looked up Mac Speedie he played until 1952.
    I did find another book that had the Browns in a team picture wearing Brown jerseys the caption says 1948.

  • timmy b | February 6, 2009 at 9:38 pm |

    [quote comment=”313946″][quote comment=”313944″]And I just found an SI about Cleveland. It has a picture of Mac Speedie at night but does not say the year. The Browns are wearing dark or brown jerseys and it looks for sure like orange helmets and a white ball.[/quote]

    That begs another question for TommyB. It always appeared to me that the Browns’ orange helmets didn’t come along until they had joined the NFL. Is that true, I wonder? And, also, did the AAFC ever use a white ball?

    —Ricko[/quote]

    Ricko & Co.,

    The Browns – based on my research – wore plain orange helmets for a few early season games in 1950, including the famed night game season opener in Philadelphia against the Eagles, then went back to their white leather hats for the rest of 1950. Also, it appears that they wore the white leather helmets for all of 1951. In 1952, they finally switched to plastic, wearing orange helmets with a white stripe.

    The Browns and the Cardinals were the last two teams to make the switch from leather to plastic in 1952.

    As far as white footballs in the AAFC go, I’m not 100% sure on this, but I’d have to think that they were in use for night games there, just like in the NFL.

    Hope this helps.

  • timmy b | February 6, 2009 at 9:48 pm |

    The first Colts (AAFC 1947-1949, NFL 1950) wore green and silver. They croaked after the 1950 season.

    The 1953 (or second) Colts kept the royal blue and white worn by the 1952 Dallas Texans. They have worn various shades of blue ever since.

  • Nick | February 6, 2009 at 10:25 pm |

    [quote comment=”313937″][quote comment=”313935″]A few days ago there may have been talk about the color of the Colts old uniforms and Miami Seahawks.

    I said my dad was at that 1st Seahwaks Browns game in the old AAFC.

    Here are figures from that years Browns and Seahawks. Can anybody verify the colors of the Seahawks?

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    http://img.photobuck...

    Did the Browns even HAVE a brown jersey in the AAFC? Always wondered about that. They were lone team to wear white at home, so they very well could have had just whites. Only photos I’ve ever seen of the brown jerseys were after they’d joined the NFL.

    Miami Seahawks? Heard two versions on that. Mostly orange & blue, but recently someone mentioned green & silver. TimmyB would be the one who’d probably know.

    —Ricko[/quote]

    I recently saw a photo , I believe on this site but maybe on Sports Illustrated’s, where the AAFC Browns were wearing Brown Jerseys, drop shadow numerals, White Helmets in a game against the AAFC Los Angeles Dons, played in the LA Coliseum. The LA Dons wore White Jerseys with the long color stripe ruinning down the sides of the long sleeved jerseys.

  • Larry | February 6, 2009 at 10:25 pm |

    Here is the picture captioned 1948 of the Browns team.

    http://img.photobuck...

  • Larry | February 6, 2009 at 10:26 pm |

    and not sure if this can be read from my recent scan. It has the AAFC teams and the colors

    http://img.photobuck...

  • Larry | February 6, 2009 at 10:33 pm |

    Hey Nick if you are the one we talked about the friction strips from yesterday I saw your last comment there. I agree about the 1930’s and 1920’s uniforms. I think the early to mid 1930’s college uniforms were the best. With all the stripes and patterns and some had small numbers on patterns. It is good ot see somebody else who is fascinated by that eras uniforms. I too hav been trying to complete the 1930’s issues of Football Illustrated. I do not have 1930 or 1931 or 1934 and 1938. I think that magazine came out around 1928 or 29 right? I love those and look through them often.

    And today I looked for sports catalogs on ebay. One was from 1936 but when I found it, it had 2 minutes to go. I see one from maybe 1941 or 42 and it showed some helmets and uniforms drawings. Are those the sort of things you were talking about?

  • Nick | February 6, 2009 at 10:36 pm |

    The photo shows the AAFC Browns appeared to be wearing plain white MacGregor Leather Helmets, while the LA Dons appear to be wearing 1930s style dark leather helmets with EIGHT white stripes crossing over/meeting at the top of the helmet.

  • Nick | February 6, 2009 at 10:41 pm |

    [quote comment=”313954″]Hey Nick if you are the one we talked about the friction strips from yesterday I saw your last comment there. I agree about the 1930’s and 1920’s uniforms. I think the early to mid 1930’s college uniforms were the best. With all the stripes and patterns and some had small numbers on patterns. It is good ot see somebody else who is fascinated by that eras uniforms. I too hav been trying to complete the 1930’s issues of Football Illustrated. I do not have 1930 or 1931 or 1934 and 1938. I think that magazine came out around 1928 or 29 right? I love those and look through them often.

    And today I looked for sports catalogs on ebay. One was from 1936 but when I found it, it had 2 minutes to go. I see one from maybe 1941 or 42 and it showed some helmets and uniforms drawings. Are those the sort of things you were talking about?[/quote]
    Larry,

    Yes, I was yesterday’s Friction Strip guy. I do not have the complete set of Football Illustrateds, but I have most. The unis in that era were the best looking and most imaginative, despite the limits on helmet colors and no logos.

    I also like how there were many more teams, and the uni variations on style, etc. radically different from the ends of the era’s uni spectrum.

  • Nick | February 6, 2009 at 10:46 pm |

    [quote comment=”313954″]Hey Nick if you are the one we talked about the friction strips from yesterday I saw your last comment there. I agree about the 1930’s and 1920’s uniforms. I think the early to mid 1930’s college uniforms were the best. With all the stripes and patterns and some had small numbers on patterns. It is good ot see somebody else who is fascinated by that eras uniforms. I too hav been trying to complete the 1930’s issues of Football Illustrated. I do not have 1930 or 1931 or 1934 and 1938. I think that magazine came out around 1928 or 29 right? I love those and look through them often.

    And today I looked for sports catalogs on ebay. One was from 1936 but when I found it, it had 2 minutes to go. I see one from maybe 1941 or 42 and it showed some helmets and uniforms drawings. Are those the sort of things you were talking about?[/quote]

    The catalogues that had the preview for the season with the team pictures were about the size of a reader’s Digest, and published by a sporting goods company. I am out of town until next Thursday but I will let you know the details when I get back.

    They have literally 150 pages, very thin paper, with about ten pages at the end of football items, usually helmets, pads., footballs, pants, and sometimes jerseys.

  • Larry | February 6, 2009 at 10:58 pm |

    [quote comment=”313956″][quote comment=”313954″]Hey Nick if you are the one we talked about the friction strips from yesterday I saw your last comment there. I agree about the 1930’s and 1920’s uniforms. I think the early to mid 1930’s college uniforms were the best. With all the stripes and patterns and some had small numbers on patterns. It is good ot see somebody else who is fascinated by that eras uniforms. I too hav been trying to complete the 1930’s issues of Football Illustrated. I do not have 1930 or 1931 or 1934 and 1938. I think that magazine came out around 1928 or 29 right? I love those and look through them often.

    And today I looked for sports catalogs on ebay. One was from 1936 but when I found it, it had 2 minutes to go. I see one from maybe 1941 or 42 and it showed some helmets and uniforms drawings. Are those the sort of things you were talking about?[/quote]
    Larry,

    Yes, I was yesterday’s Friction Strip guy. I do not have the complete set of Football Illustrateds, but I have most. The unis in that era were the best looking and most imaginative, despite the limits on helmet colors and no logos.

    I also like how there were many more teams, and the uni variations on style, etc. radically different from the ends of the era’s uni spectrum.[/quote]

    I agree again Nick. To me the 1930’s was the best possible era for college football uniforms. And you give more reasons too. There were a lot of teams in those years that competed with the big boys. Some of them may still play at division 3. But many do not exist today. Some of those with stripes all over are fun to see. Like Cal and others. I just love looking at that eras uniforms and helmets. I have learned there were a lot more styles and looks of helmets than I may have realized. Many winged types and many stripes on or 2 toned.

    One other things is I love the old football movies. TCM had them all day long, last week. I had seen them before. USC’s old striped uniforms were sure used a lot in old football movies. Like Horsefeathers. and so many others.

  • LI Phil | February 6, 2009 at 11:03 pm |

    nick or larry,

    if either (or both) of you have a scanner and are interested in working with me on a weekend column or three featuring anything, but especially old football pics…drop me a line…thanks

  • Larry | February 6, 2009 at 11:07 pm |

    http://img.photobuck...

    Those are the USC uniforms you will see in many old football movies. Imagine seeing that game live and in color vs Colorado.

  • Chuck | February 6, 2009 at 11:10 pm |

    [quote comment=”313913″][quote comment=”313908″]wake me when we start discussing unis again ;)[/quote]

    sorry phil… check out otto wearing chucks!
    [/quote]great pic! I would love to see the Browns wear a throwback white helmet.

  • Larry | February 6, 2009 at 11:24 pm |

    LI Phil Thanks, I will check with you about that.

    One other thing I have messed around with is colorizing old football pictures. I have done mostly Ohio State but have done quite a few others.

    A lot of the final result depends on the quality of the original picture and the lighting.

    Here are 2 of that USC uniform I mentioned. Now I did one with USC with a black helmet and one in a cardianl or USC color helmet. I can not find that one but here is the one with a black helmet. I have recently learned how to use Picassa to try and make the results better. Like saturation and warmify.

  • Larry | February 6, 2009 at 11:30 pm |

    Is there any way to edit your own comment? I guess you may have to be signed in for those. If so let me know.

  • LI Phil | February 6, 2009 at 11:45 pm |

    [quote comment=”313964″]Is there any way to edit your own comment? I guess you may have to be signed in for those. If so let me know.[/quote]

    i can edit them, but they worked great for me! nice pics!

  • Nick | February 6, 2009 at 11:52 pm |

    [quote comment=”313961″]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/Larrymb/scan0057.jpg?t=1233979553

    Those are the USC uniforms you will see in many old football movies. Imagine seeing that game live and in color vs Colorado.[/quote]

    #############################################

    Love the old football movies – how about the one where Jerry Lewis wears glasses, and wears the leather helmet with the eye-protection facemask.
    It only covered his eyes, with no protection for the chin or mouth. Oddly, I saw a catologue selling those well into the 1950s – after most players wore conventional facemasks.

    Until now I did not realize it, but you are right, the early USC jerseys really made the rounds in those movies.

    I actually had a 1930s Colorado jersey and pants that I bought on EBAY for $200.00 9can you believe that !!! in about 1999. Pale Old Gold wool jersey, Gray stripe running down the sides of long sleeves, and black felt numbers – no friction strips. The material was 70 years old and was still so thick and strong you could tow a car with it. The pants were a very thin khaki/gold cloth, sort of a very fine gaberdine or canvas, with the matching gray stripe down the back of each leg.

    It was probably my best uni collectible, sadly, Lady Katrina did to it what 70 years could not, and now it’s in the great equipment room in Jersey Heaven

  • Larry | February 7, 2009 at 12:23 am |

    When I dvr those old football movies I find myself pausing or using slow motion to try and guess what teams are really playing when they show game action. Knute Rockne was on the other day. I give them credit for showing what seemed like all ND film clips. But the years were far off. When it was supposed to be ND in the early 1920’s playing Army. They showed clips of the famous 1935 Ohio State Notre Dame game.

    Irona Major was on. About Frank Cavanugh. They showed numerous clips later on but of all kinds of other games

  • […] And I got hooked on hockey, too, because they’d show Saturday-afternoon games from Madison Square Garden on TV. And we’d get Celtics games on Sunday afternoon, and for football we’d get Giants and Cleveland Browns games . …Next Page […]

  • David J. | February 11, 2009 at 2:49 pm |

    [quote comment=”313883″]Probably one of the better football uniform builders, and its from Rawlings:

    http://www.rawlings....[/quote]

    I had a chance to try out that Rawlings Uniform builder, and I liked it.

    I just wish someone would develop an online uniform builder that includes vintage football and basketball uniform silhouette templates (i.e. longer-sleeved football jerseys and shorter basketball shorts) and the option of including custom colors.