I’ve got an ESPN column today (once it goes live, it should be at this link), so no main entry on this site today. Instead, here’s a photo of Eric Byrnes diving into first last night. Everyone says not to do this, and with good reason: As you can see, Byrnes’s chest had already hit the ground well in advance of the base, which means he was slowing down. So why do we keep seeing ballplayers sliding head-first into first? Discuss.
Uni Watch News Ticker: Someone on eBay is claiming to have a game-used 1967 Indians vest. I was suspicious at first, because of those stretch panels — did the Tribe really wear those back in the day? As it turns out, yes, they did (with thanks to Ryan Connelly). ”¦ Small item about cycling jerseys here. ”¦ Kinda looks like Adidas inadevertently worked a swoosh into the side of the Columbus Crew (MLS) jersey (good spot by Kevin Corcoran). ”¦ Speaking of MLS, Ben Wideman notes that they’ve unveiled their all-star game logo. ”¦ If you liked yesterday’s post about Mark Penxa’s artwork, you might also like Greg Kreindler’s site (with thanks to Josh Kirshner). ”¦ Dennis Anderson proudly reports that his 15-year-old son, Eric Anderson, was voted “The Player Who Most Looks Like a Real Player” by his j.v. baseball teammates. ”¦ Why not just buy a pair of bell-bottoms and get it over with? ”¦ I’m not sure I want to know why Chris Flinn was watching The Price Is Right Million Dollar Spectacular, but he noticed that one of the contestants was wearing an orange Bernie Kosar Browns jersey. ”¦ Still more swimsuit litigation. ”¦ Another short workday for me today (seeing the Mets/Nats matinee at Shea, don’tcha know). See you back here tomorrow.
My theory is that ballplayers, as a whole, are not the most intelligent group of folks in the world, and that they play on instinct as much as anything else. What else could explain Manny’s incredible career?
Anyway, for some reason, many players’ instincts tell them incorrectly that sliding headfirst into first base will get them there more quickly, no matter how many times they are told otherwise by their coaches, teammates and good ol’ mom.
The sports media always complains players don’t hustle enough, so I’m sure it’s in some players’ mindsets that if they slide into first, the media will praise them for hustling.
Sliding into first should ONLY happen if you’re trying to avoid a tag by the first baseman. As Paul mentioned, it slows you down big time!
There’s one scenario that diving into first might be useful. If the pitcher fields the bunt goes for the tag, you might avoid the tag by diving.
Otherwise, it must be a base stealer’s instinct. You don’t see too many sluggers diving into first.
Everyone says not to do this
Well, not quite true. There is one time you should slide into first base: when the first baseman is drawn off of the bag towards home plate by a bad throw and will attempt a high tag on the runner. Then, get down!
But your general idea is correct. Since this largely ignorant manuever screams “Look at that effort!” however, I doubt you’ll see an elimination of unnecessary sliding anytime soon.
Sliding headfirst into first base has a high CDI (Chicks Dig It) factor.
In yesterday’s comments it was noted that both teams wore the same UEFA Cup font despite using different manufacturers (Rangers – Umbro, Zenit – Puma)
link
But did anyone notice that Zenit ‘westernized’ their sponsor logo from this
link
To this?
link
I think players think it’s faster to slide into first because it makes them feel like DIVING towards something is faster than RUNNING to it.
Ask Martin Prado of the Braves what happens when you slide into first. Trip to the DL with strained ligaments in his thumb because he got it caught on the base as he slid in.
~E~
[quote comment=”270955″]There’s one scenario that diving into first might be useful. If the pitcher fields the bunt goes for the tag, you might avoid the tag by diving.
Otherwise, it must be a base stealer’s instinct. You don’t see too many sluggers diving into first.[/quote]
David Ortiz did a “Pete Rose” into first base about two weeks ago and tweaked his surgically repaired knee enough to sit out a few games. Say what you will about Papi but “base stealer” is not a description usually used for him.
I don’t have a trained eye for design, but in most of those cases, I couldn’t tell the difference between the “Good” and the “Ugly” cycling jerseys. I though the idea with a cycling jersey was to be as garish as possible.
Maybe these misguided players believe that by sliding head-first they can touch and hold onto the bag better than going feet-first?
There are so many disadvantages to this ‘technique’ it’s a wonder players still try this. (Then again, being smart is not a prerequiste to playing in the pros.)
I don’t think it’s a conscious decision by most guys. When you have a chance to beat out a throw and you’re busting it down the line, you naturally tend to lean forward, a la runners in the 100m. Perhaps the lean is too much, leading to a slide.
When did Elvis Presley get called up by the Rays?
With regard to this guy, link
. . . doesn’t he (and the hundreds of others like him) know that even the U.S. Navy abandoned bell bottoms a few years ago?
link
With so many younger players coming around at all levels, isn’t it time for the bulk of the Major Leaguers who still wear slacks to get their heads on straight and start dressing like ballplayers again?
[quote comment=”270958″]In yesterday’s comments it was noted that both teams wore the same UEFA Cup font despite using different manufacturers (Rangers – Umbro, Zenit – Puma)
link
But did anyone notice that Zenit ‘westernized’ their sponsor logo from this
link
To this?
link
OOPS better shot of Russian Zenit jersey
link
Do they change the sponsor logo when playing on the road in “Western” Europe?
perhaps the head first dive is an attempt to kick up some dirt and lure the umpire into making an incorrect call?
but overall, sliding head first is mostly for the, as “Juan Grande” mentioned, CDI factor.
I believe in many cases it’s instict, I did it once in college, I knew in my head not to, I even told other people it was a bad idea, but on a bang bang play it seemed like a good idea at the time…and yes, I was out by an inch.
[url]
link
Cardinal fans hate the Cubs so much, they even make up really bad photoshop images of Jim Edmonds in a “Cubs uniform” for the news story of his signing with the Cubbies…
dang it! just copy and paste:
link
[quote comment=”270958″]“In yesterday’s comments it was noted that both teams wore the same UEFA Cup font despite using different manufacturers (Rangers – Umbro, Zenit – Puma.)”[/quote]
link
yes, and they suffered from fucking puma lowercase suname disease. when i’m king of the world, all surnames will be in CAPITAL LETTERS. lower case bites, blows, stinks and sucks fulltime bigtime.
I think its because you slide/dive into other bases when stealing, trying to avoid a tag, etc. Of course, on the other bases you don’t have the option of running through the bag and have to stop as soon as you get there while avoiding a tag, something you don’t usually do at first base.
Nice bit about cycling jerseys. I’ve always liked the Francais des Jeux jerseys best. And I’m a sucker for Slipstream’s argyles. Also like the Liquigas jerseys, but that’s partly because the name makes me laugh.
Paul would hate my father’s LSU cycling jersey. Heavy on the purple.
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[quote comment=\”270963\”]Maybe these misguided players believe that by sliding head-first they can touch and hold onto the bag better than going feet-first?
[/quote]
Might explain head-first slides into other bases, but you don\’t have to maintain contact at first, you can overrun it.
Check out the care instructions tag on that Indians vest — \”Do not tumble or use automatic dryer\”? Wow. Did they string clotheslines in the clubhouse?
Was thinking about the recent discussion that players in many organizations are encouraged–if not required–to wear their pants short and show a lot of stirrup or solid sock.
My educated guess is that’s financially motivated. Shorter pants are generally considerably less expensive than the ankle length variety. Plus, there’s no cost of tailoring them to a player’s specific height (that they get in The Show, which is one reason long pants might be considered more “professional,” i.e, the big club pays for tailoring at that level). With off-the-rack short pants, players just blouse them where they feel comfortable. Precise length is virtually irrelevant. And those shorter pants more easily pass from player to player, which is essential in a farm system.
Buying socks–at, what, $2 a pair wholesale?–probably is far cheaper than longer pants and the expenses they’d involve.
Related to this is a past mention of the white placat for NOB of Twins’ home pinstripes. That goes back to Calvin Griffith, a passionate practitioneer of perniciousness if ever they was one. Somebody told Calvin he’d save 5 or 10 grand a year (honestly don’t remember the exact figure) if he did NOB that way instead of stitching individual letters right into the jerseys and thereby limiting their re-usability cuz of all those little holes.
Guess which route he chose to take.
[quote comment=”270979″][quote comment=”270958″]“In yesterday’s comments it was noted that both teams wore the same UEFA Cup font despite using different manufacturers (Rangers – Umbro, Zenit – Puma.)”[/quote]
link
yes, and they suffered from fucking puma lowercase suname disease. when i’m king of the world, all surnames will be in CAPITAL LETTERS. lower case bites, blows, stinks and sucks fulltime bigtime.[/quote]
Believe me, as a fan of Tottenham Hotspur, I know link. Spurs, whose kits are manufactured by Puma, are downright link to me to watch when they’re playing a European cup match because of the link. It is probably my biggest pet peeve in all of the uniform world! (And that’s saying something; after all, I’m a Uni Watch reader. :P)
I’m pretty sure that MythBusters looked at the idea of sliding vs. running through a base and found that sliding was actually a little bit faster. Granted they were looking at going 1st to 2nd so you can’t run through the bag, but maybe that’s where it comes from, although I can’t imagine your average MLBer watching the Discovery Channel.
Last week I attended a charity baseball game played by the on-air hosts of the local sports station (1310 The Ticket). Only one player wore real stirrups, and unfortunately, he wore them link. It still looked better than most players, who opted for the link. And even more unfortunate, former Yankee Homer Bush (team’s manager) went for the link.
That MythBusters was a joke.
Of COURSE sliding is faster going from first to second. You SLOW DOWN to avoid overunning if you don’t slide. Duh.
I couldn’t even watch the entire segment it was so boneheaded.
[quote comment=”270992″]Last week I attended a charity baseball game played by the on-air hosts of the local sports station (1310 The Ticket). Only one player wore real stirrups, and unfortunately, he wore them link. It still looked better than most players, who opted for the link. And even more unfortunate, former Yankee Homer Bush (team’s manager) went for the link.[/quote]
Dang, Bush looks terrible. And check out the extra material. Was he expecting to do some sliding?
The Ticket certainly did not do a very good job of selecting uniforms. This is surprising, since the morning show pays attention to uniform issues periodically, and generally have good heads on their shoulders.
Evidently the guys at that Sports Talk station watch a lot of girls softball.
i think stupid ballplayers actually believe that the headfirst slide is “the quickest way” to get to a base
all one need do is watch any SNB on the WWL and you’ll hear that beacon of misinformation, joe morgan himself, extolling the virtues of the headfirst slide
i distinctly remember one SNB game and he was attempting to explain to miller exactly why the headfirst slide was superior…to which, as is his wont whenever morgan displays his utter lack of common sense or even a basic knowledge of the laws of physics, miller sat silently nonplussed
nice story here
link
[quote comment=”270995″]That MythBusters was a joke.
Of COURSE sliding is faster going from first to second. You SLOW DOWN to avoid overunning if you don’t slide. Duh.
I couldn’t even watch the entire segment it was so boneheaded.[/quote]
On a side note, there’s a Customs Officer at the London, Ontario Airport who’s a dead ringer for Adam Savage. He was very nice, too, when explaing that my company plane and all passengers had to leave Canada immediately. They also have much nicer uniforms than US Customs officers.
hey stuby
why did you have to leave canada immediately?
1 – No cheap hustle points for sliding into first, as any intelligent broadcasters I’ve heard are always quick to point out that sliding gets you there slower. I’m sure coaches know this too. Anyone who thinks ballplayers think “Hey, if I slide here it’ll look like I’m really hustling” while running to first a) falsely believe there’s actually time to think and b) grossly overestimate the intelligence of most ballplayers.
2 – I wonder, however, if there’s any advantage to be gained from DIVING INTO the base, so that your hand hits the bag just before you hit the ground. Kinda like diving back on a pickoff, but at a full sprint. Thoughts?
3 – re The Swimsuit Wars – There’s only one fair solution to insure no one gets a competitive advantage from their suits: Naked Olympic Swimming. Or, a less creative solution, just ban the damn things and make everyone wear similar kit (no full body suits, no space-age fabrics, etc unless the technology is made available to all competitors at reasonable cost). Make it clear that no records will be recognized where the high-tech suits are worn. Other sports regulate the specifics of their equipment (golf club size/design, size of baseball gloves, size of hockey goalie pads, etc), it’s time for swimming to step in.
[quote comment=”271002″]hey stuby
why did you have to leave canada immediately?[/quote]
Didn’t have the right work permit, had a co-worker from Ghana who didn’t have a visa, didn’t have a copy of my college diploma. I think they were starting to make up stuff.
two comments on the ESPN column.
1. fred couples’ cigarette looks an awful lot like a golf tee
2. larry bird is smoking during a championship celebration. aren’t celebratory cigars exempted? or if they aren’t, shouldn’t they be?
[quote comment=”271004″]I wonder, however, if there’s any advantage to be gained from DIVING INTO the base, so that your hand hits the bag just before you hit the ground. Kinda like diving back on a pickoff, but at a full sprint. Thoughts?[/quote]
Agreed. I’ve always thought that leaping at the bag itself, rather than landing on the ground in front of the bag, could be an advantage. This only works at first base, since you’ll definitely slide past the bag with this method.
Only problem: B-I-G risk of jammed fingers, separated shoulders (see: Lofton, Kenny, 1997 playoffs), etc. Not worth it.
[quote comment=”270966″]When did Elvis Presley get called up by the Rays?[/quote]
He is a guy that “Looks most like a little leaguer”. Kudos to the Anderson family and boo to this guy.
[quote comment=\”271008\”][quote comment=\”271004\”]I wonder, however, if there\’s any advantage to be gained from DIVING INTO the base, so that your hand hits the bag just before you hit the ground. Kinda like diving back on a pickoff, but at a full sprint. Thoughts?[/quote]
Only problem: B-I-G risk of jammed fingers, separated shoulders (see: Lofton, Kenny, 1997 playoffs), etc. Not worth it.[/quote]
Yes, however, there\’s also risks in running it out as well – see Kendall, Jason:
link
Apparently this guy disagrees about the headfirst slide
link
[quote comment=”271008″][quote comment=”271004″]I wonder, however, if there’s any advantage to be gained from DIVING INTO the base, so that your hand hits the bag just before you hit the ground. Kinda like diving back on a pickoff, but at a full sprint. Thoughts?[/quote]
Agreed. I’ve always thought that leaping at the bag itself, rather than landing on the ground in front of the bag, could be an advantage. This only works at first base, since you’ll definitely slide past the bag with this method.
Only problem: B-I-G risk of jammed fingers, separated shoulders (see: Lofton, Kenny, 1997 playoffs), etc. Not worth it.[/quote]
Except that as soon as your feet leave the ground you are no longer propelling yourself to the bag, in turn means your slowing down. Best method is to just run it out.
Those in the Mets TV Market will see Gary Cohen, Keith Hernandez, and Ron Darling call today’s Mets game against the Nationals from the Upper Decks of Shea Stadium on SNY. Yes, I know it not uni-related, but it is something Paul will get a kick out of.
As for Chris watching the TPIR $1,000,000 spectacular, it’s one of the few good non-sports shows left on broadcast television! :) The reason why you see a lot of contestants wear Cleveland Browns or Indians, jerseys is that everyone knows that Drew is originally from Cleveland. Maybe with that knowledge they can possibly get chosen to win a prize. ;)
Disturbing logo creep at The Police concert in Omaha last night. Drummer Stewart Copeland wore what I believe to be two Nike golf gloves throughout the show. I had nosebleed seats, but as I was watching the monitor I thought I saw a swoosh flash by. As I looked closer, I’m pretty sure Stuart was rocking the Nikes for the whole show.
Is this something common for drummers that I’ve just missed? Just wondering.
And, by the way, the show rocked.
[quote comment=”271008″][quote comment=”271004″]I wonder, however, if there’s any advantage to be gained from DIVING INTO the base, so that your hand hits the bag just before you hit the ground. Kinda like diving back on a pickoff, but at a full sprint. Thoughts?[/quote]
Agreed. I’ve always thought that leaping at the bag itself, rather than landing on the ground in front of the bag, could be an advantage. This only works at first base, since you’ll definitely slide past the bag with this method.
Only problem: B-I-G risk of jammed fingers, separated shoulders (see: Lofton, Kenny, 1997 playoffs), etc. Not worth it.[/quote]
So, IF someone could perfect the art of throwing themselves at first base and actually starting the slide after the base, dragging a foot across the base, it could be quicker.
And if my grandmother had wheels she’d be a wagon.
[quote comment=\”270998\”]i think stupid ballplayers actually believe that the headfirst slide is \”the quickest way\” to get to a base
all one need do is watch any SNB on the WWL and you\’ll hear that beacon of misinformation, joe morgan himself, extolling the virtues of the headfirst slide
i distinctly remember one SNB game and he was attempting to explain to miller exactly why the headfirst slide was superior…to which, as is his wont whenever morgan displays his utter lack of common sense or even a basic knowledge of the laws of physics, miller sat silently nonplussed[/quote]
Joe Morgan is a tool. I’m waiting for the day when John Miller turns towards him in the middle of the game, smacks him across the face, and says “I’m sorry but it had to be done.” Note to Joe Morgan: The Big Red Machine was over 30 years ago. Let it go!
Is there anyone who hates the American League more than Joe Morgan?
[quote comment=”271015″]Apparently this guy disagrees about the headfirst slide
link
take this FWIW…here’s the first line from that ‘article’:
Sliding into first base (or any base for that matter) most definately [sic] gets you to the base faster
definately?
anyway…guy goes on to talk about why people dive for balls “to get to them faster of course”…not taking into account that this is the only way to field them…that’s like saying players who ‘jump’ to catch a ball laced over their heads are doing so to get there faster…there’s physics involved, to be sure, but just not the kind this guy is selling
/rant off
[quote comment=”271013″][quote comment=\”271008\”][quote comment=\”271004\”]I wonder, however, if there\’s any advantage to be gained from DIVING INTO the base, so that your hand hits the bag just before you hit the ground. Kinda like diving back on a pickoff, but at a full sprint. Thoughts?[/quote]
Only problem: B-I-G risk of jammed fingers, separated shoulders (see: Lofton, Kenny, 1997 playoffs), etc. Not worth it.[/quote]
Yes, however, there\’s also risks in running it out as well – see Kendall, Jason:
link
He never was the same after that but he did sign a sweet contract.
[quote comment=”271019″][quote comment=”271008″][quote comment=”271004″]I wonder, however, if there’s any advantage to be gained from DIVING INTO the base, so that your hand hits the bag just before you hit the ground. Kinda like diving back on a pickoff, but at a full sprint. Thoughts?[/quote]
Agreed. I’ve always thought that leaping at the bag itself, rather than landing on the ground in front of the bag, could be an advantage. This only works at first base, since you’ll definitely slide past the bag with this method.
Only problem: B-I-G risk of jammed fingers, separated shoulders (see: Lofton, Kenny, 1997 playoffs), etc. Not worth it.[/quote]
So, IF someone could perfect the art of throwing themselves at first base and actually starting the slide after the base, dragging a foot across the base, it could be quicker.
And if my grandmother had wheels she’d be a wagon.[/quote]
I’m picturing an F-16 landing on an aircraft carrier, catching the cable with the tailhook.
[quote]Is there anyone who hates the American League more than Joe Morgan?[/quote]
don denkinger?
…wait
Re Gazprom: They sponsor Shalke 04 (link) in the Bundesliga and use the latin alphabet for all the stadium signs and jerseys.
[quote comment=”271022″][quote comment=\”270998\”]i think stupid ballplayers actually believe that the headfirst slide is \”the quickest way\” to get to a base
all one need do is watch any SNB on the WWL and you\’ll hear that beacon of misinformation, joe morgan himself, extolling the virtues of the headfirst slide
i distinctly remember one SNB game and he was attempting to explain to miller exactly why the headfirst slide was superior…to which, as is his wont whenever morgan displays his utter lack of common sense or even a basic knowledge of the laws of physics, miller sat silently nonplussed[/quote]
Joe Morgan is a tool. I’m waiting for the day when John Miller turns towards him in the middle of the game, smacks him across the face, and says “I’m sorry but it had to be done.” Note to Joe Morgan: The Big Red Machine was over 30 years ago. Let it go!
Is there anyone who hates the American League more than Joe Morgan?[/quote]
This is great…
link
The younger Mr. Anderson does look sharp. More kids should take his lead.
The only thing I’d suggest is a lttle more curve to the bill of his cap and then it’d be perfect.
[quote comment=”271033″]The younger Mr. Anderson does look sharp. More kids should take his lead.
The only thing I’d suggest is a lttle more curve to the bill of his cap and then it’d be perfect.[/quote]
nah…that’s enough…just as long as it don’t look like joba
Re: notes after the ESPN column:
That is most definitely a white golf tee in Fred Couples’ mouth.
There are pretty much only two reasons for a slide, neither of which is to get you to the base faster (because it doesn’t, period):
1. Prevent overunning. Yes, you slow yourself down with a slide, but that’s because you have to stay with the bag.
2. Avoid being tagged.
Don’t know where Joe Morgan’s coming from on this, but I suppose paying attention in eighth grade science class (for example) isn’t a prerequiste for being inducted into Cooperstown.
[quote comment=”271028″]Re Gazprom: They sponsor Shalke 04 (link) in the Bundesliga and use the latin alphabet for all the stadium signs and jerseys.[/quote]
I just thought it interesting that they would take the effort to “westernize” the logo, it does make good business sense to keep Gazprom happy. In the same vein Inter and Tottenham have worn Chinese lettering recently, probably to sell shirts in the Far East and please their sponsors.
Inter: link
Tottenham: link
[quote comment=”271039″]There are pretty much only two reasons for a slide, neither of which is to get you to the base faster (because it doesn’t, period):
1. Prevent overunning. Yes, you slow yourself down with a slide, but that’s because you have to stay with the bag.
2. Avoid being tagged.
Don’t know where Joe Morgan’s coming from on this, but I suppose paying attention in eighth grade science class (for example) isn’t a prerequiste for being inducted into Cooperstown.[/quote]
Agreed. If diving towards a base gets you there faster you’d see Olympic track sprinter diving towards the finish line, instead of leaning while RUNNING! Although it would make track and field more interesting.
For all we know, that may have actually been Bernie Kosar.
I keed, I keed.
[quote comment=”270999″]nice story here
link
I think this was in Tuesday or Wednesday’s ticker.
[quote comment=”271017″]Those in the Mets TV Market will see Gary Cohen, Keith Hernandez, and Ron Darling call today’s Mets game against the Nationals from the Upper Decks of Shea Stadium on SNY. Yes, I know it not uni-related, but it is something Paul will get a kick out of.
As for Chris watching the TPIR $1,000,000 spectacular, it’s one of the few good non-sports shows left on broadcast television! :) The reason why you see a lot of contestants wear Cleveland Browns or Indians, jerseys is that everyone knows that Drew is originally from Cleveland. Maybe with that knowledge they can possibly get chosen to win a prize. ;)[/quote]
I know a group of girls (a college sports team) that went to a taping of the show, and one girl on the team had her name called to “come on down”. Guess where she was from. Yep, Cleveland. Supposedly they have to “screen” you, and there’s some people that are sitting there with a name tag, but their name isn’t even in the “box” to be called. I call scam……
[quote comment=”270973″]
link
Cardinal fans hate the Cubs so much, they even make up really bad photoshop images of Jim Edmonds in a “Cubs uniform” for the news story of his signing with the Cubbies…[/quote]
What’s really sad is that sorry photoshop image was made — not for a “fan” site — but for the site of one of the St. Louis television stations! Quality Control — whazzat?
As a Cardinal fan, however, I agree that the sight of Jim Edmonds in a Cubs uni is just going to feel wrong…
If diving were a faster way to get to a base, wouldn’t diving also be a faster way for a sprinter to cross a finish line?
I’m sure if diving were faster, tracks would have evolved into having “landing areas” at the finish lines to allow sprinters to dive across the line without getting hurt instead of the current method of running through them. Or, sprinters might wear special padded clothing that would allow them to dive across the line and land on the track without injury. I’m not a track and field guy, so maybe there’s a “no diving” rule I don’t know about, but I’d think if it were faster, it’d be used in races.
RE: Baseball Pants
Actually, the longer pants are less of an ordeal to deal with. Almost all of the manufacturers make the long pants as the standard now. Try going to a sporting goods store and finding short pants. I’m 6’3″ and the baseball pants I have were all ankle-length until I had them hemmed so I could wear them high.
I seem to remember the consensus about why MLB players say longer pants are “more professional” is that the high pants look is favored in college and the minors, so the MLB’ers have adopted the semi-idiotic “long pants are more professional” stance to differentiate themselves.
And Homer Bush’s pants have the extra material in the knees because that is also pretty standard now on the mid-level to higher-quality baseball pants you can buy today. Again, go to a retail store and look. Most of the pants have the extra material.
Don’t mean to go against conventional wisdom, but some people put it to the test and found that a well executed head first slide often *is indeed* a shade faster because players often have to adjust their stride in order to avoid missing the bag. Track runners do not need to worry about this.
Of course there’s the requirement of executing it well, but if a player gets good enough at it, it’s often not a bad idea, especially if the player can already feel like they won’t naturally hit the bag in their current stride.
I’m sure that a perfectly executed dead-run that lands on the bag would be the optimum choice, but situations don’t always make that possible.
I can’t remember where I read this. I don’t think it was on a website though. I’ll try to see if I can find anything about it on Google and link it here.
[quote comment=”271048″]If diving were a faster way to get to a base, wouldn’t diving also be a faster way for a sprinter to cross a finish line?
I’m sure if diving were faster, tracks would have evolved into having “landing areas” at the finish lines to allow sprinters to dive across the line without getting hurt instead of the current method of running through them. Or, sprinters might wear special padded clothing that would allow them to dive across the line and land on the track without injury. I’m not a track and field guy, so maybe there’s a “no diving” rule I don’t know about, but I’d think if it were faster, it’d be used in races.[/quote]
Yup, like all those classic newsreels of Jesse Owens diving headlong or feet first under the tape at the Berlin Olympics.
Sure, we’ve all see THOSE, haven’t we.
Not.
[quote comment=”271026″][quote comment=”271019″][quote comment=”271008″][quote comment=”271004″]I wonder, however, if there’s any advantage to be gained from DIVING INTO the base, so that your hand hits the bag just before you hit the ground. Kinda like diving back on a pickoff, but at a full sprint. Thoughts?[/quote]
Agreed. I’ve always thought that leaping at the bag itself, rather than landing on the ground in front of the bag, could be an advantage. This only works at first base, since you’ll definitely slide past the bag with this method.
Only problem: B-I-G risk of jammed fingers, separated shoulders (see: Lofton, Kenny, 1997 playoffs), etc. Not worth it.[/quote]
So, IF someone could perfect the art of throwing themselves at first base and actually starting the slide after the base, dragging a foot across the base, it could be quicker.
And if my grandmother had wheels she’d be a wagon.[/quote]
I’m picturing an F-16 landing on an aircraft carrier, catching the cable with the tailhook.[/quote]
That would be the right image. :)
[quote comment=”271024″][quote comment=”271015″]Apparently this guy disagrees about the headfirst slide
link
take this FWIW…here’s the first line from that ‘article’:
Sliding into first base (or any base for that matter) most definately [sic] gets you to the base faster
definately?
anyway…guy goes on to talk about why people dive for balls “to get to them faster of course”…not taking into account that this is the only way to field them…that’s like saying players who ‘jump’ to catch a ball laced over their heads are doing so to get there faster…there’s physics involved, to be sure, but just not the kind this guy is selling
/rant off[/quote]
Never said I agreed with it…I actually read the first couple lines, promptly said this guy is an idiot, but it needed to be pointed out that this is where SOME people get their info
[quote comment=”270959″]I think players think it’s faster to slide into first because it makes them feel like DIVING towards something is faster than RUNNING to it.[/quote]
I had a teammate in college who was prone do doing this. On more than one occasion, our coaches reprimanded him, stating that running to the ball was much more efficient.
Ironically, he held all of the school’s receiving records for a short while!
Newton’s Law of Baserunning:
A body in motion tends to remain in motion. A body to which friction is applied (by sliding) tends to slow down.
To assume otherwise is to deny natural law.
Why would you worry about overrunning first base?
You overrun second or third, you (potentially) get tagged out. You overrun first, you turn to the right, you’re fine. You don’t have to slow down to avoid overrunning first base.
[quote comment=”271051″]Don’t mean to go against conventional wisdom, but some people put it to the test and found that a well executed head first slide often *is indeed* a shade faster because players often have to adjust their stride in order to avoid missing the bag. Track runners do not need to worry about this.
Of course there’s the requirement of executing it well, but if a player gets good enough at it, it’s often not a bad idea, especially if the player can already feel like they won’t naturally hit the bag in their current stride.
I’m sure that a perfectly executed dead-run that lands on the bag would be the optimum choice, but situations don’t always make that possible.
I can’t remember where I read this. I don’t think it was on a website though. I’ll try to see if I can find anything about it on Google and link it here.[/quote]
Ah…the stride factor. That’s a very good point. Because you’re not just running past a line, but you have to make sure your foot lands on a certain spot at the line.
I’m sure this is why so many players occasionally trip over first base when they’re trying really hard to beat out a throw. In trying to adjust their stride their footing gets a little screwed up.
[quote comment=”271055″][quote comment=”270959″]I think players think it’s faster to slide into first because it makes them feel like DIVING towards something is faster than RUNNING to it.[/quote]
I had a teammate in college who was prone do doing this. On more than one occasion, our coaches reprimanded him, stating that running to the ball was much more efficient.
Ironically, he held all of the school’s receiving records for a short while![/quote]
running to catch a football and sliding into first are two mutually exclusive acts…just as is diving for a baseball hit to your left or right
we’re talking about angles and physics, not the act of physically crossing a plane (as the excellent analogy of a sprinter that several readers pointed out)…
if a base is, while not a fixed plane, a destination to be crossed not ‘attached’ (as a steal would be) to…we need to know the fastest way to simply cross (and of course merely touch) that object
diving for a ball is not an act of crossing a certain plane at a given instant, so it’s not a good analogy
Nice article, Mr. Lukas.
I had no idea you could…uh…fit so well in a jockey silk.
[quote comment=”271046″][quote comment=”270973″]
link
Cardinal fans hate the Cubs so much, they even make up really bad photoshop images of Jim Edmonds in a “Cubs uniform” for the news story of his signing with the Cubbies…[/quote]
What’s really sad is that sorry photoshop image was made — not for a “fan” site — but for the site of one of the St. Louis television stations! Quality Control — whazzat?
As a Cardinal fan, however, I agree that the sight of Jim Edmonds in a Cubs uni is just going to feel wrong…[/quote]
I am sure the photo department had to rush the photoshop job they did for the broadcast, but what really strick me–and why I posted it here–was the fact they just gave him a blue hat with the Cubs sleeve patch and not the red “C” logo, and they kept the jersey white with a blue undershirt. The Cubs have not worn a solid white top since 1956! link
on a semi-related note…has anyone noticed the recent spate of plays at the plate?
it seems catchers today are even less schooled in the laws of physics than their predecessors…i’ve seen, within the past week, at least THREE catchers move away and in front of home plate (thereby no longer blocking the path of a runner towards the plate) to catch a ball (not a poorly thrown ball, mind you, but one on line)…catch it, then attempt to dive back and tag the runner who, because the catcher has now vacated the space directly in front of the plate, has successfully scored
announcers have pointed out that the catcher should remain in front of the plate, wait for the ball to come to them (a split second slower, but much quicker than reaching out to catch the ball, pivot, and attempt to tag the runner)…
im sure visions of ray fosse/pete rose come to these catchers’ minds, but still…whatever happened to protecting the dish?
im not talking about an off line throw the catcher has to field away from the plate…these are good throws the catcher mysteriously decides he’s going to field “early”…
who teaches these things?
A few nights ago, I was watching Hockey: A People History, a documentary on hockey in Canada (10 part series). Last night it was on the Summit Series. Any Canadian who considers himself Canadian has seen all there is to see about the Summit Series. But at the end of the documentary, there was a short blip on Women’s hockey during the ’70s. There were some GREAT uniforms.
link got enough interest to resurrect the University of Saskatchewan’s women’s hockey team in the ’70s. One thing though, they had to use hand-me-downs from the link. Not gonna lie though, some of them probably coulda link.
One thing with the documentary, they re-create events/games that were significant to the growth of the sport. One of those games was a contest against a link. Notice how well they re-create it… I honestly think that they painted the ice to be historically accurate, but I could be wrong. They also used the old Minnesota link and link.
One thing I loved though, were the link link link that U of Sask wore. Also, notice the numbers on the link of the link.
They also showed some archive footage from the ’70s. Looks like they had link of link back then. Fortunately, they didn’t have the hideous things back when I played organized hockey.
[quote comment=”271063″][quote comment=”271055″][quote comment=”270959″]I think players think it’s faster to slide into first because it makes them feel like DIVING towards something is faster than RUNNING to it.[/quote]
I had a teammate in college who was prone do doing this. On more than one occasion, our coaches reprimanded him, stating that running to the ball was much more efficient.
Ironically, he held all of the school’s receiving records for a short while![/quote]
running to catch a football and sliding into first are two mutually exclusive acts…just as is diving for a baseball hit to your left or right
we’re talking about angles and physics, not the act of physically crossing a plane (as the excellent analogy of a sprinter that several readers pointed out)…
if a base is, while not a fixed plane, a destination to be crossed not ‘attached’ (as a steal would be) to…we need to know the fastest way to simply cross (and of course merely touch) that object
diving for a ball is not an act of crossing a certain plane at a given instant, so it’s not a good analogy[/quote]
Why not just run and then belly flop onto the damn bag? I would like to toss that into this over lengthened disscussion.
[quote comment=”271055″][quote comment=”270959″]I think players think it’s faster to slide into first because it makes them feel like DIVING towards something is faster than RUNNING to it.[/quote]
I had a teammate in college who was prone do doing this. On more than one occasion, our coaches reprimanded him, stating that running to the ball was much more efficient.
Ironically, he held all of the school’s receiving records for a short while![/quote]
Sorry to quote myself, but I have found photographic evidence of the perpetrator in question committing said act.
Coincidentally, he did NOT make this catch against C.W. Post my sophomore year!
link
By the way, that Kosar jersey should be headed directly to Straightcashhomey!
While it is true you are slowing down during the slide itself, you are running full speed and essentially jumping forward at a faster rate then you can run thereby speeding up getting to the base. A foot first slide will slow you down since yo have to slow your body down to get behind your feet.
Apropos of nothing, New York Giants are selling their game-issued Super Bowl jerseys on their web site. About two dozen, ranging from $300 for the rookie/ineligibles to $1,250 for bigger names. None appear to have been used.
To go right along this same discussion, I’m tired of every damn outfielded in baseball going the Jim Edmonds route aqnd sliding and diving for every ball. It ridiculous showboating. I remember Hawk Harrelson talking during one of the first few games this year about asking Ichiro whether it really does help you get there faster in either case, and what did he say, “No, on both.” He said the only time a dive is ever necessary is when it’s a low chopper or something and the ball was barely ever high enough during it’s trajectory to be caught any other way, any other time it just slows you down. You could either dive for it and get on tv, or run the couple more steps you could have during said dive and catch it chest/belt level, same phyics involved as with the sliding into 1st argument. And considering Ichiro is one damn fine fielder I’d tend to believe him. Btw, he also mentioned that he only dives/slides for balls when he knows there’s no chance of dropping it, aka he’s good enough to show boat a little, but most shouldn’t.
[quote comment=”271053″][quote comment=”271026″][quote comment=”271019″][quote comment=”271008″][quote comment=”271004″]I wonder, however, if there’s any advantage to be gained from DIVING INTO the base, so that your hand hits the bag just before you hit the ground. Kinda like diving back on a pickoff, but at a full sprint. Thoughts?[/quote]
Agreed. I’ve always thought that leaping at the bag itself, rather than landing on the ground in front of the bag, could be an advantage. This only works at first base, since you’ll definitely slide past the bag with this method.
Only problem: B-I-G risk of jammed fingers, separated shoulders (see: Lofton, Kenny, 1997 playoffs), etc. Not worth it.[/quote]
So, IF someone could perfect the art of throwing themselves at first base and actually starting the slide after the base, dragging a foot across the base, it could be quicker.
And if my grandmother had wheels she’d be a wagon.[/quote]
I’m picturing an F-16 landing on an aircraft carrier, catching the cable with the tailhook.[/quote]
That would be the right image. :)[/quote]
Off-Topic, but while we’re discussing carriers and fighter planes…you should all check out the series “Carrier” on PBS.
[quote comment=”271071″]
Why not just run and then belly flop onto the damn bag? I would like to toss that into this over lengthened disscussion.[/quote]
Stupid idea. Your hands would be past the bag, so you’d lose time. Also, first base isn’t made of water.
[quote comment=”270990″]I’m pretty sure that MythBusters looked at the idea of sliding vs. running through a base and found that sliding was actually a little bit faster. Granted they were looking at going 1st to 2nd so you can’t run through the bag, but maybe that’s where it comes from, although I can’t imagine your average MLBer watching the Discovery Channel.[/quote]
sea, yes they did look at sliding but they only looks at feet first sliding.
[quote comment=”271007″]two comments on the ESPN column.
1. fred couples’ cigarette looks an awful lot like a golf tee
2. larry bird is smoking during a championship celebration. aren’t celebratory cigars exempted? or if they aren’t, shouldn’t they be?[/quote]
He’s right. Freddy may smoke, I have no idea, but this is clearly a golf tee.
link
Scouting dept’s of MLB teams basically carry a stopwatch in their hip pocket at all times. If there was any advantage to sliding into 1st, they’d know, since it isn’t that why we see so many coaches shaking their heads when these idiots start to slide. Anyone who ever seen a spring training workout for baestealers know they spend days doing nothing but getting timed during their slides. It’s what these coaches and scouts do for a living, they know what they’re doing, the slide into 1st is slower, period, the only reasont o ever slide is to avoid a tag or to not overrun a base.
[quote comment=”271008″][quote comment=”271004″]I wonder, however, if there’s any advantage to be gained from DIVING INTO the base, so that your hand hits the bag just before you hit the ground. Kinda like diving back on a pickoff, but at a full sprint. Thoughts?[/quote]
Agreed. I’ve always thought that leaping at the bag itself, rather than landing on the ground in front of the bag, could be an advantage. This only works at first base, since you’ll definitely slide past the bag with this method.
Only problem: B-I-G risk of jammed fingers, separated shoulders (see: Lofton, Kenny, 1997 playoffs), etc. Not worth it.[/quote]
I think thats what they are trying to do, but they got bad aim. The problem, like you said, is the injury potential.
[quote comment=”271073″]While it is true you are slowing down during the slide itself, you are running full speed and essentially jumping forward at a faster rate then you can run thereby speeding up getting to the base
[quote comment=”271016″][quote comment=”271008″][quote comment=”271004″]I wonder, however, if there’s any advantage to be gained from DIVING INTO the base, so that your hand hits the bag just before you hit the ground. Kinda like diving back on a pickoff, but at a full sprint. Thoughts?[/quote]
Agreed. I’ve always thought that leaping at the bag itself, rather than landing on the ground in front of the bag, could be an advantage. This only works at first base, since you’ll definitely slide past the bag with this method.
Only problem: B-I-G risk of jammed fingers, separated shoulders (see: Lofton, Kenny, 1997 playoffs), etc. Not worth it.[/quote]
Except that as soon as your feet leave the ground you are no longer propelling yourself to the bag, in turn means your slowing down. Best method is to just run it out.[/quote]
you are no longer accelerating once you are at top speed anyway, you are maininting your speed. In order to dive forward you have to actually move even faster than you were. you just can’t land short of the base.
[quote comment=”271086″]While it is true you are slowing down during the slide itself, you are running full speed and essentially jumping forward at a faster rate then you can run thereby speeding up getting to the base[/quote]
no idea what happened there, but my question is “how is this possible”?
you cannot get ‘faster’ or increase your rate for forward propulsion by diving or jumping than by running full stride…it’s a constant
You can’t propel yourself (as in a dive) faster than you’re already going without doing a bit of “launching” using your legs. To do that you have to SLOW DOWN, even if just a bit, thereby likely offsetting all or most of the gain. Otherwise it’s just falling forward at the same speed or slower.
Can’t compare to long jumper whose object is to jump farther, not to, as someone else said, break a fixed plane as quickly as possible.
Look at it this way. Tell a ballplayer he doesn’t have to stay with the bag and he’ll say, “Good, if I can overrun it, I don’t have to slow down and I’ll get there faster.”
Do not, as a friend of mine used to say, “analyze the snot out of it.”
[quote comment=”271041″][quote comment=”271039″]There are pretty much only two reasons for a slide, neither of which is to get you to the base faster (because it doesn’t, period):
1. Prevent overunning. Yes, you slow yourself down with a slide, but that’s because you have to stay with the bag.
if they weren’t going to get hurt diving onto a hard track they probably would dive instead of lean. That and I think its against the rules.
2. Avoid being tagged.
Don’t know where Joe Morgan’s coming from on this, but I suppose paying attention in eighth grade science class (for example) isn’t a prerequiste for being inducted into Cooperstown.[/quote]
Agreed. If diving towards a base gets you there faster you’d see Olympic track sprinter diving towards the finish line, instead of leaning while RUNNING! Although it would make track and field more interesting.[/quote]
I think sometimes sliding head first is a deceptive tool. Majority of the time the umpire is standing behind the bag an if your hands are on the ground as is Eric Byrnes’ it might appear your sfae when you might be a couple inches from the bag due to bag blocking umpire’s view. this is why i have done it soemtimes.
[quote comment=”271094″]I think sometimes sliding head first is a deceptive tool. Majority of the time the umpire is standing behind the bag an if your hands are on the ground as is Eric Byrnes’ it might appear your sfae when you might be a couple inches from the bag due to bag blocking umpire’s view. this is why i have done it soemtimes.[/quote]
a good umpire’s view wouldn’t be blocked…unless he’s lying on the ground
[quote comment=”271088″][quote comment=”271086″]While it is true you are slowing down during the slide itself, you are running full speed and essentially jumping forward at a faster rate then you can run thereby speeding up getting to the base[/quote]
no idea what happened there, but my question is “how is this possible”?
its not a constant, imagine just standing still an deciding to dive forward, in order to get your body ahead of your feet you use your arm swing and core muscles to help move your upper body forward while also tightening your calf muscles to extend your feet to propel forward. Move that to walking , and you are still using the same muscles to go from a walk to a dive. You aren’t using the same muscles walk as you are to dive. Same applies to run to dive. You would be changing what muscles are being used and the thrust vector.
you cannot get ‘faster’ or increase your rate for forward propulsion by diving or jumping than by running full stride…it’s a constant[/quote]
If you dive into first like Eric Byrnes and hurl yourself all over the outfield for batted balls unnecessarily — like, um, Eric Byrnes — you will be called “gritty” and “a gamer” who “plays the game the right way”, and you will become disproportionately popular among casual fans, and troglodytes like Joe Morgan will praise you, and Fox will hire you as a guest analyst.
(But only if you’re a white guy. There are no Latino “gamers”.)
[quote comment=”271095″][quote comment=”271094″]I think sometimes sliding head first is a deceptive tool. Majority of the time the umpire is standing behind the bag an if your hands are on the ground as is Eric Byrnes’ it might appear your sfae when you might be a couple inches from the bag due to bag blocking umpire’s view. this is why i have done it soemtimes.[/quote]
a good umpire’s view wouldn’t be blocked…unless he’s lying on the ground[/quote]
Considering how bad the umpiring was during the Angels/Sox game last night, this might not be so crazy of any idea. Anyone see that blind umpiring?
[quote comment=”271089″]You can’t propel yourself (as in a dive) faster than you’re already going without doing a bit of “launching” using your legs. To do that you have to SLOW DOWN, even if just a bit, thereby likely offsetting all or most of the gain. Otherwise it’s just falling forward at the same speed or slower.
Can’t compare to long jumper whose object is to jump farther, not to, as someone else said, break a fixed plane as quickly as possible.
Look at it this way. Tell a ballplayer he doesn’t have to stay with the bag and he’ll say, “Good, if I can overrun it, I don’t have to slow down and I’ll get there faster.”
Do not, as a friend of mine used to say, “analyze the snot out of it.”[/quote]
Actually, you can. The nature of running is that it limits your speed. In order for your foot to get traction, you have to slow down to plant it. That’s why ice skaters are so much faster- they don’t have to stop themselves to take the next step. By launching yourself in the air, you’re not doing anything you’re not already doing running.
Thus, you can put all of your muscle strength into that one leap and not have to slow yourself down for traction.
Diving is probably faster if you have good leg strength. But the thing that coaches don’t like is the risk of injuries, as previously stated.
[quote comment=”271096″][quote comment=”271088″][quote comment=”271086″]While it is true you are slowing down during the slide itself, you are running full speed and essentially jumping forward at a faster rate then you can run thereby speeding up getting to the base[/quote]
no idea what happened there, but my question is “how is this possible”?
its not a constant, imagine just standing still an deciding to dive forward, in order to get your body ahead of your feet you use your arm swing and core muscles to help move your upper body forward while also tightening your calf muscles to extend your feet to propel forward. Move that to walking , and you are still using the same muscles to go from a walk to a dive. You aren’t using the same muscles walk as you are to dive. Same applies to run to dive. You would be changing what muscles are being used and the thrust vector.
you cannot get ‘faster’ or increase your rate for forward propulsion by diving or jumping than by running full stride…it’s a constant[/quote][/quote]
It just doesn’t make you faster, at all, period. Any kind of arm movement or leg movement that you’d need to preform to start the dive would slow you down by screwing up your stride and momentum.
[quote comment=”271096″]its not a constant, imagine just standing still an deciding to dive forward, in order to get your body ahead of your feet you use your arm swing and core muscles to help move your upper body forward while also tightening your calf muscles to extend your feet to propel forward.[/quote]
when you’re running full speed, you’re not standing still
[quote]Move that to walking , and you are still using the same muscles to go from a walk to a dive. You aren’t using the same muscles walk as you are to dive. Same applies to run to dive. You would be changing what muscles are being used and the thrust vector.[/quote]
when you’re running full speed, you’re not walking
each of those acts (standing still and walking) would be helped by diving
however, when the body is in full flight and running full speed, there is no single action you can do to improve or hasten that speed…period
holy shit ducks…do you and i agree on something 100%???
/that’s a first (and prolly last) ;)
[quote comment=”271101″][quote comment=”271089″]You can’t propel yourself (as in a dive) faster than you’re already going without doing a bit of “launching” using your legs. To do that you have to SLOW DOWN, even if just a bit, thereby likely offsetting all or most of the gain. Otherwise it’s just falling forward at the same speed or slower.
Can’t compare to long jumper whose object is to jump farther, not to, as someone else said, break a fixed plane as quickly as possible.
Look at it this way. Tell a ballplayer he doesn’t have to stay with the bag and he’ll say, “Good, if I can overrun it, I don’t have to slow down and I’ll get there faster.”
Do not, as a friend of mine used to say, “analyze the snot out of it.”[/quote]
Actually, you can. The nature of running is that it limits your speed. In order for your foot to get traction, you have to slow down to plant it. That’s why ice skaters are so much faster- they don’t have to stop themselves to take the next step. By launching yourself in the air, you’re not doing anything you’re not already doing running.
Thus, you can put all of your muscle strength into that one leap and not have to slow yourself down for traction.
Diving is probably faster if you have good leg strength. But the thing that coaches don’t like is the risk of injuries, as previously stated.[/quote]
Like others have previously stated, if diving was a faster way of reaching the last few feet they’d put down pads at the end of every 100 meters track in the world and every sprinter would dive, but they don’t, why? Because it’s slower.
[quote comment=”271097″]If you dive into first like Eric Byrnes and hurl yourself all over the outfield for batted balls unnecessarily — like, um, Eric Byrnes — you will be called “gritty” and “a gamer” who “plays the game the right way”, and you will become disproportionately popular among casual fans, and troglodytes like Joe Morgan will praise you, and Fox will hire you as a guest analyst.
(But only if you’re a white guy. There are no Latino “gamers”.)[/quote]
Hey, like Jim Edmonds! That a-hole has been diving at routine fly balls for years. Don’t forget the sprint around the bases after the home run … after watching it land.
I’m so happy he’s a Cub now!
I want to die.
[quote comment=”271105″]holy shit ducks…do you and i agree on something 100%???
/that’s a first (and prolly last) ;)[/quote]
Nope I lied, diving is great, I’m about to go dive into my house when I go home for lunch, that way I can get to eating my luch and start listening to Jay Crawford, Dana Jacobsen, Sage Steal, and crew butcher every MLB players name and try to pretend they’ve acctually watched a sporting event before a little bit faster!
[quote comment=”271106″]
Like others have previously stated, if diving was a faster way of reaching the last few feet they’d put down pads at the end of every 100 meters track in the world and every sprinter would dive, but they don’t, why? Because it’s slower.[/quote]
But, as also previously stated, diving to touch a base that’s on the ground may be quicker than if you have to adjust your stride to make sure you land directly on that base with a foot…since the base is smaller than the lenght of a running stride.
Metric System, The Validation of the teaching of Physical Education, the pratfalls of Civic Etymology and now The Physics of Diving headfirst into a base.
What has this site turned into?
link
[quote]There are no Latino “gamers”[/quote]
except fernando vina
whom i want to punch in the mouth, ala joey belle
[quote comment=”271101″][quote comment=”271089″]You can’t propel yourself (as in a dive) faster than you’re already going without doing a bit of “launching” using your legs. To do that you have to SLOW DOWN, even if just a bit, thereby likely offsetting all or most of the gain. Otherwise it’s just falling forward at the same speed or slower.
Can’t compare to long jumper whose object is to jump farther, not to, as someone else said, break a fixed plane as quickly as possible.
Look at it this way. Tell a ballplayer he doesn’t have to stay with the bag and he’ll say, “Good, if I can overrun it, I don’t have to slow down and I’ll get there faster.”
Do not, as a friend of mine used to say, “analyze the snot out of it.”[/quote]
Actually, you can. The nature of running is that it limits your speed. In order for your foot to get traction, you have to slow down to plant it. That’s why ice skaters are so much faster- they don’t have to stop themselves to take the next step. By launching yourself in the air, you’re not doing anything you’re not already doing running.
Thus, you can put all of your muscle strength into that one leap and not have to slow yourself down for traction.
Diving is probably faster if you have good leg strength. But the thing that coaches don’t like is the risk of injuries, as previously stated.[/quote]
That might hold true…if you were diving directly on the base. As Paul noted in the post, Byrnes is on his belly with more than a foot left to travel. I can assure you the friction between your entire torso and infield dirt slows you down MUCH more than planting your foot to take a step.
[quote comment=”271111″][quote comment=”271106″]
Like others have previously stated, if diving was a faster way of reaching the last few feet they’d put down pads at the end of every 100 meters track in the world and every sprinter would dive, but they don’t, why? Because it’s slower.[/quote]
But, as also previously stated, diving to touch a base that’s on the ground may be quicker than if you have to adjust your stride to make sure you land directly on that base with a foot…since the base is smaller than the lenght of a running stride.[/quote]
Depends. Are you taking into account the wind?
(now where’s that “sarcasm” icon?)
[quote comment=”271018″]Disturbing logo creep at The Police concert in Omaha last night. Drummer Stewart Copeland wore what I believe to be two Nike golf gloves throughout the show. I had nosebleed seats, but as I was watching the monitor I thought I saw a swoosh flash by. As I looked closer, I’m pretty sure Stuart was rocking the Nikes for the whole show.
Is this something common for drummers that I’ve just missed? Just wondering.
And, by the way, the show rocked.[/quote]
[quote comment=\”271018\”]Disturbing logo creep at The Police concert in Omaha last night. Drummer Stewart Copeland wore what I believe to be two Nike golf gloves throughout the show. I had nosebleed seats, but as I was watching the monitor I thought I saw a swoosh flash by. As I looked closer, I\’m pretty sure Stuart was rocking the Nikes for the whole show.
Is this something common for drummers that I\’ve just missed? Just wondering.
And, by the way, the show rocked.[/quote]
Golf (or batting) gloves help keep a firm grip on the drumsticks, especially under some hot stage lights – been there, done that
Did anyone else notice in today’s ESPN column that the photo of Fred Couples looks like he has a tee in his mouth and not a cigarette?
[quote comment=”271103″][quote comment=”271096″]its not a constant, imagine just standing still an deciding to dive forward, in order to get your body ahead of your feet you use your arm swing and core muscles to help move your upper body forward while also tightening your calf muscles to extend your feet to propel forward.[/quote]
when you’re running full speed, you’re not standing still
[quote]Move that to walking , and you are still using the same muscles to go from a walk to a dive. You aren’t using the same muscles walk as you are to dive. Same applies to run to dive. You would be changing what muscles are being used and the thrust vector.[/quote]
when you’re running full speed, you’re not walking
each of those acts (standing still and walking) would be helped by diving
however, when the body is in full flight and running full speed, there is no single action you can do to improve or hasten that speed…period[/quote]
of course there is, jumping forward and running are not using the muscles in the same way. to propel forward you would be pointing the toes much farther then you will pushing off running full speed. Thats is added velocity at no expense to the running stride since you are at that point no long in a running stride. The last full speed running stride taken and is extended by the increased length of the toe push to move forward faster.
This also begs the question: why does nobody make a stink about sliding into home plate, another base you can overrun (and, if the catcher is in your way, you have the right to the basepath).
[quote comment=”271106″][quote comment=”271101″][quote comment=”271089″]You can’t propel yourself (as in a dive) faster than you’re already going without doing a bit of “launching” using your legs. To do that you have to SLOW DOWN, even if just a bit, thereby likely offsetting all or most of the gain. Otherwise it’s just falling forward at the same speed or slower.
Can’t compare to long jumper whose object is to jump farther, not to, as someone else said, break a fixed plane as quickly as possible.
Look at it this way. Tell a ballplayer he doesn’t have to stay with the bag and he’ll say, “Good, if I can overrun it, I don’t have to slow down and I’ll get there faster.”
Do not, as a friend of mine used to say, “analyze the snot out of it.”[/quote]
Actually, you can. The nature of running is that it limits your speed. In order for your foot to get traction, you have to slow down to plant it. That’s why ice skaters are so much faster- they don’t have to stop themselves to take the next step. By launching yourself in the air, you’re not doing anything you’re not already doing running.
Thus, you can put all of your muscle strength into that one leap and not have to slow yourself down for traction.
Diving is probably faster if you have good leg strength. But the thing that coaches don’t like is the risk of injuries, as previously stated.[/quote]
Like others have previously stated, if diving was a faster way of reaching the last few feet they’d put down pads at the end of every 100 meters track in the world and every sprinter would dive, but they don’t, why? Because it’s slower.[/quote]
that and it would kind of get in the way of every other event.
Maybe if the finish line was actually a line painted on the ground not a piece of ribbon four feet off the track and the runners had to actually touch the line to finish you might see sprinters diving for it… I don’t know.
Jerry Remy often talks about how he’s noticed more SS’s and 2nd basemen taking a step towards homeplate when fielding a throw from the catcher. They should straddle the bag and slap the tag down rather than catch and sweep back.
[quote comment=”271123″]This also begs the question: why does nobody make a stink about sliding into home plate, another base you can overrun (and, if the catcher is in your way, you have the right to the basepath).[/quote]
Easier to try to avoid tag by sliding than knocking ball out of cather’s mitt by bodychecking him. That’s my guess
Does anyone here have a degree in kinesiology?
No?
Huh. Imagine that.
[quote comment=”270949″]My theory is that ballplayers, as a whole, are not the most intelligent group of folks in the world, and that they play on instinct as much as anything else. [/quote]
Thats just a ridiculous statement. Sounds like a comment from a former nerd who couldn’t throw a baseball and now makes himself feel better by showing how he’s smarter than those damn jocks.
As far as sliding into first being faster, years back when he was managing the Diamondbacks, Buck Showalter had minor leaguers run time trials to first, running straight through the bag and then diving into the bag. The time to first was actually slightly better when diving headfirst into the bag but he felt it was not enough of a difference to justify the injury risk involved in doing it.
…and my photoshop for the day:
link
[quote comment=”271130″][quote comment=”271123″]This also begs the question: why does nobody make a stink about sliding into home plate, another base you can overrun (and, if the catcher is in your way, you have the right to the basepath).[/quote]
Easier to try to avoid tag by sliding than knocking ball out of cather’s mitt by bodychecking him. That’s my guess[/quote]
And you don’t want to be an asshole like Pete Rose by running through Ray Fosse in the 1970 All-Star Game. Plus same players like Dustin Pedroia or David Eckstien are so small they’d bounce right off the catcher.
[quote comment=”271136″]…and my photoshop for the day:
link
Reminds me of “Major League” when Wesley Snipes/Willy Mays Hayes slides headfirst into second base and ends up three feet short.
[quote comment=”271108″][quote comment=”271097″]If you dive into first like Eric Byrnes and hurl yourself all over the outfield for batted balls unnecessarily — like, um, Eric Byrnes — you will be called “gritty” and “a gamer” who “plays the game the right way”, and you will become disproportionately popular among casual fans, and troglodytes like Joe Morgan will praise you, and Fox will hire you as a guest analyst.
(But only if you’re a white guy. There are no Latino “gamers”.)[/quote]
Hey, like Jim Edmonds! That a-hole has been diving at routine fly balls for years. Don’t forget the sprint around the bases after the home run … after watching it land.
I’m so happy he’s a Cub now!
I want to die.[/quote]
I remember a few years ago when the over-rated Edmonds and the Cards played Atlanta. There was a runner on second and a fly ball it to semi shallow center feild, Edmonds of course has to dive to make a scene but then he just laid there and allowed the runner to tag up and get to third. I was dumb founded and I am a Braves fan.
Amazing column today about the silks… really enjoyed it! And so very jealous you got the tour. I had noticed the ads on the jockeys at the Derby and was pretty sure this was the first time – at least that I had seen. And I was appalled to say the least… But now knowing that the pants are the jockey’s responsibility – how does the logo fit in? Or at that level, do they supply the pants too?
[quote comment=”271081″][quote comment=”271071″]
Why not just run and then belly flop onto the damn bag? I would like to toss that into this over lengthened disscussion.[/quote]
Stupid idea. Your hands would be past the bag, so you’d lose time. Also, first base isn’t made of water.[/quote]
Oh man that’s great! I love these kind of comments!
[quote comment=”271097″]If you dive into first like Eric Byrnes and hurl yourself all over the outfield for batted balls unnecessarily — like, um, Eric Byrnes — you will be called “gritty” and “a gamer” who “plays the game the right way”, and you will become disproportionately popular among casual fans, and troglodytes like Joe Morgan will praise you, and Fox will hire you as a guest analyst.
(But only if you’re a white guy. There are no Latino “gamers”.)[/quote]
No black “gamers” either…they just grew up in the inner city
[quote]And you don’t want to be an asshole like Pete Rose by running through Ray Fosse in the 1970 All-Star Game.[/quote]
why not?
[quote comment=”271151″][quote comment=”271081″][quote comment=”271071″]
Why not just run and then belly flop onto the damn bag? I would like to toss that into this over lengthened disscussion.[/quote]
Stupid idea. Your hands would be past the bag, so you’d lose time. Also, first base isn’t made of water.[/quote]
Oh man that’s great! I love these kind of comments!
[quote comment=”271097″]If you dive into first like Eric Byrnes and hurl yourself all over the outfield for batted balls unnecessarily — like, um, Eric Byrnes — you will be called “gritty” and “a gamer” who “plays the game the right way”, and you will become disproportionately popular among casual fans, and troglodytes like Joe Morgan will praise you, and Fox will hire you as a guest analyst.
(But only if you’re a white guy. There are no Latino “gamers”.)[/quote]
No black “gamers” either…they just grew up in the inner city[/quote]
Players like Byrnes and Edmonds are described as “gritty” and “blue collar” who “bring their lunchpail to work.” Then listen to descriptions of players like Ryan Howard and hear about their “natural athleticism” and “how he hits the ball effortlessly”. A local radio show brings up these subtle racial divisions frequently on their show…quite humorous really.
[quote comment=”271153″]Players like Byrnes and Edmonds are described as “gritty” and “blue collar” who “bring their lunchpail to work.” Then listen to descriptions of players like Ryan Howard and hear about their “natural athleticism” and “how he hits the ball effortlessly”. A local radio show brings up these subtle racial divisions frequently on their show…quite humorous really.[/quote]
the black is a better athlete to begin with because he’s been bred to be that way…because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back, and they can jump higher and run faster because of their bigger thighs…this goes back all the way to the civil war when during the slave trading, the owner…the slave owner would breed his big black to his big woman so that he could have a big black kid…
Chelsea is wearing next year’s jersey for the CL final in Moscow, with “special” lettering.
link
[quote comment=”271154″][quote comment=”271153″]Players like Byrnes and Edmonds are described as “gritty” and “blue collar” who “bring their lunchpail to work.” Then listen to descriptions of players like Ryan Howard and hear about their “natural athleticism” and “how he hits the ball effortlessly”. A local radio show brings up these subtle racial divisions frequently on their show…quite humorous really.[/quote]
the black is a better athlete to begin with because he’s been bred to be that way…because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back, and they can jump higher and run faster because of their bigger thighs…this goes back all the way to the civil war when during the slave trading, the owner…the slave owner would breed his big black to his big woman so that he could have a big black kid…[/quote]
Jimmy the Greek you are fired.
[quote]Disturbing logo creep at The Police concert in Omaha last night. Drummer Stewart Copeland wore what I believe to be two Nike golf gloves[/quote]
im just wondering why you (a) feel this is even logo creep…every glovemaker puts their symbol/brand/icon on their product; (b) feel this is disturbing…is it because there’s a logo at all…or because there’s a swoosh specifically?
/even PL doesn’t consider logos on equipment to be ‘logo creep’
[quote comment=”271128″]Maybe if the finish line was actually a line painted on the ground not a piece of ribbon four feet off the track and the runners had to actually touch the line to finish you might see sprinters diving for it… I don’t know.
Jerry Remy often talks about how he’s noticed more SS’s and 2nd basemen taking a step towards homeplate when fielding a throw from the catcher. They should straddle the bag and slap the tag down rather than catch and sweep back.[/quote]
Well considering they don’u actually use ribbons during the 100 meters you point is pretty much void, huh?
[quote comment=”271125″][quote comment=”271106″][quote comment=”271101″][quote comment=”271089″]You can’t propel yourself (as in a dive) faster than you’re already going without doing a bit of “launching” using your legs. To do that you have to SLOW DOWN, even if just a bit, thereby likely offsetting all or most of the gain. Otherwise it’s just falling forward at the same speed or slower.
Can’t compare to long jumper whose object is to jump farther, not to, as someone else said, break a fixed plane as quickly as possible.
Look at it this way. Tell a ballplayer he doesn’t have to stay with the bag and he’ll say, “Good, if I can overrun it, I don’t have to slow down and I’ll get there faster.”
Do not, as a friend of mine used to say, “analyze the snot out of it.”[/quote]
Actually, you can. The nature of running is that it limits your speed. In order for your foot to get traction, you have to slow down to plant it. That’s why ice skaters are so much faster- they don’t have to stop themselves to take the next step. By launching yourself in the air, you’re not doing anything you’re not already doing running.
Thus, you can put all of your muscle strength into that one leap and not have to slow yourself down for traction.
Diving is probably faster if you have good leg strength. But the thing that coaches don’t like is the risk of injuries, as previously stated.[/quote]
Like others have previously stated, if diving was a faster way of reaching the last few feet they’d put down pads at the end of every 100 meters track in the world and every sprinter would dive, but they don’t, why? Because it’s slower.[/quote]
that and it would kind of get in the way of every other event.[/quote]
Yes becuase its impossible to move padds!? Are you kidding me rigth now, have you ever seen the steeplechase? Guess not huh, they run that on the smae track as everything else, 90% of the time and that’s got a friggen lagoon to jump.
“they play on instinct as much as anything else. What else could explain Manny’s incredible career?”
Uh, maybe that he IS intelligent and you’re not stupid just because you have weird hair and a baggy uniform?
(By the way, making the same tired “Manny doesn’t know what he’s doing” joke at this point is about as original as a “Who Let the Dogs Out?” joke.)
Does diving into a base get you to the base faster, or get you to a certain spot on the base faster? In other words, shouldn’t all base stealers go back to first standing up if that is faster?
I’m going to argue diving/sliding INTO first base is slowing the runner down, but diving sliding to GET TO first base would be faster if done correctly. Namely launching yourself such that you hand would get to the base before your body initiates traction. At that moment, your hand is further ahead of where your feet might have been able to get to in that point in time. Of course, you have lost no force going into the bag, thus there is the potential for injury as a body part is being slammed against the bag.
[quote comment=”271135″][quote comment=”270949″]My theory is that ballplayers, as a whole, are not the most intelligent group of folks in the world, and that they play on instinct as much as anything else. [/quote]
Thats just a ridiculous statement. Sounds like a comment from a former nerd who couldn’t throw a baseball and now makes himself feel better by showing how he’s smarter than those damn jocks.
As far as sliding into first being faster, years back when he was managing the Diamondbacks, Buck Showalter had minor leaguers run time trials to first, running straight through the bag and then diving into the bag. The time to first was actually slightly better when diving headfirst into the bag but he felt it was not enough of a difference to justify the injury risk involved in doing it.[/quote]
It’s not really that dumb at all. If they get it pounded into their heads for years that on any close play at 3 out of the 4 bases you need to slide/dive, and in some cases at the other base(1st), then it’s not at all unlikely that it’s just hard to break that instinct to dive for the base.
The Wiki mguy is right, diving is as fast as running. Too bad he doesn’t know squat about baseball. All players slide along the ground for several feet – either when sliding or diving – thus incurring the dreaded “friction” that will slow you down.
Sure, you could dive through the air and try to touch the bag with your hand without touching the ground with your chest. Just don’t fly over the bag, or worse, get that thumb down in front of the bag. I cannot even comprehend how you could dive feet first aiming to hit the bag. Oh yes, I can – it’s called running through the bag.
[quote comment=”271168″]Does diving into a base get you to the base faster, or get you to a certain spot on the base faster? In other words, shouldn’t all base stealers go back to first standing up if that is faster?
I’m going to argue diving/sliding INTO first base is slowing the runner down, but diving sliding to GET TO first base would be faster if done correctly. Namely launching yourself such that you hand would get to the base before your body initiates traction. At that moment, your hand is further ahead of where your feet might have been able to get to in that point in time. Of course, you have lost no force going into the bag, thus there is the potential for injury as a body part is being slammed against the bag.[/quote]
You dive back to 1st to avoid the tag and to not overrun that bag. Seriously poeple, why is this so hard to understand?
[quote comment=”271161″]Well considering they don’u actually use ribbons during the 100 meters you point is pretty much void, huh?[/quote]
ducks…buddy…you can’t argue with some of these guys and ladies
link
you only get that in dodgeball
[quote comment=”271157″]Chelsea is wearing next year’s jersey for the CL final in Moscow, with “special” lettering.
link
That’s pretty standard – shirts are lettered for virtually every big match.
Arsenal Champions League Final, couple years ago:
link
Ebbsfleet United FA Trophy Final shirt, last week:
link
National teams do this as well:
link
[quote comment=”271173″]Another short workday for me today (seeing the Mets/Nats matinee at Shea, don’tcha know). See you back here tomorrow.[/quote]
Mike Pelfrey has yet to give up a hit through 6 innings, and his pitch count is low. He’s walked a few hitters, though, and the Mets haven’t scored a run for him…
[quote comment=”271180″][quote comment=”271173″]Another short workday for me today (seeing the Mets/Nats matinee at Shea, don’tcha know). See you back here tomorrow.[/quote]
Mike Pelfrey has yet to give up a hit through 6 innings, and his pitch count is low. He’s walked a few hitters, though, and the Mets haven’t scored a run for him…[/quote]
that didn’t take long
[quote comment=”271180″][quote comment=”271173″]Another short workday for me today (seeing the Mets/Nats matinee at Shea, don’tcha know). See you back here tomorrow.[/quote]
Mike Pelfrey has yet to give up a hit through 6 innings, and his pitch count is low. He’s walked a few hitters, though, and the Mets haven’t scored a run for him…[/quote]
Aaaand there’s a base hit. Check the time differential between my two posts — ooof.
And I even made an effort not to use the term “no-hitter” so as not to jinx him… even though I hate the Mets.
Well considering they don’u actually use ribbons during the 100 meters you point is pretty much void, huh?
No. Tape/laser beam whatever. Still have to cross a floating line whether real or virtual huh? What if they actually had to touch a line on the ground, huh?
[quote comment=”271171″][quote comment=”271168″]Does diving into a base get you to the base faster, or get you to a certain spot on the base faster? In other words, shouldn’t all base stealers go back to first standing up if that is faster?
I’m going to argue diving/sliding INTO first base is slowing the runner down, but diving sliding to GET TO first base would be faster if done correctly. Namely launching yourself such that you hand would get to the base before your body initiates traction. At that moment, your hand is further ahead of where your feet might have been able to get to in that point in time. Of course, you have lost no force going into the bag, thus there is the potential for injury as a body part is being slammed against the bag.[/quote]
You dive back to 1st to avoid the tag and to not overrun that bag. Seriously poeple, why is this so hard to understand?[/quote]
I think that sounds a little more rude than I meant it to, sorry.
ARGH! Regarding the sliding-to-1st issue, there’s a lot of misunderstanding here.
1) track and field: the rules explicitly state that the finish is defined by when the runner’s torso breaches the finish line. link. That means there’s no advantage to diving no matter what, because you need to get your chest to the finish. Which is why sprinters finish their races with their chests thrust forward.
2) In bicycle racing, the finish is defined by the front wheel, so bike racers do a thrust at the finish (“bike throw”) that ends up pushing the (light) bicycle ahead of the (heavy) rider. In other words, the centre of mass of the bike-rider moves much less than the front edge of the front wheel for a moment.
What should we learn here? The bike racer who does a bike throw has to stop pedaling, so you must visualize that he would be slower at getting to some point beyond the finish, but he’s faster at getting to the finish itself.
3) How does this apply to sliding to first?
The rules for getting there say any part of the body has to touch the base. Since your mass is mostly in your torso and legs, rotating your arms and head forward should be able move your fingertips forward in space faster than you can propel your whole mass, doubly so since you’re leaving your legs behind, so to speak.
As a result, a well-executed head-first slide may allow for a talented base-runner to touch his fingertips to first slightly faster than he could run through the base. I make no submission as to whether that’s true in the real world, since there’s a few variables.
The variable that concerns me most is that I think fast base-runners would still be accelerating 90 feet after they started. The only reference I can find in a short search says that track sprinters accelerate for link from the blocks. This means a base-runner is not only choosing to decelerate by sliding, but may not be reaching peak possible terminal speed before sliding.
In conclusion, I don’t know if sliders into first base are faster, and neither do you. To the base paths!
After carefully taking into account all arguments, studies and contrary opinions, I believe that one should never always think twice when considering the issue of the proper manor of running to first base. Now, I hope I’ve made myself clear.
Let us switch Imponderables, perhaps?
On MSN’s homepage today, there’s a link to Dove Soap article entitled: “Why Normal Women Are Beautiful”
Do you suppose tomorrow’s subject will be: “Why Beautiful Woman Are Normal”?
Cuz, y’know, after all, neither of those things is true.
(heh heh heh, I will now sit back and see what develops).
[quote comment=\”270958\”]In yesterday\’s comments it was noted that both teams wore the same UEFA Cup font despite using different manufacturers (Rangers – Umbro, Zenit – Puma)
link
[/quote]
Is this the first time that the UEFA Cup has used its own special lettering? You can see the logo in the letters.
One of the things I love about European football uniforms is that the number styles are set by the leagues, not the teams. So a team that gets promoted or relegated will wear different letter styles.
Here\’s Charlton Athletic FC wearing the Championship (2nd divison) numbers:
link
When a couple years ago, they wore the numbers of the Premier League:
link
In tournaments like the Champions League, teams have been able to wear whatever style they like. For example, Arsenal wears the standard PL numbers for league games:
link
but special gold numbers (and different font) in the Champions League:
link
I\’m not aware of tournaments having standard lettering in the past.
[quote comment=”271184″]And I even made an effort not to use the term “no-hitter” so as not to jinx him… even though I hate the Mets.[/quote]
What is the proper “reverse jinx” when selecting lottery numbers?
LOL at Eric Burns. I’m a Rockies fan but love Burnsy too. What a character. I thought that was a shot from the NLCS before I realized it was a road Rockies jersey.
i think the whole point of paul’s title for this thread YOU CAN’T STEAL FIRST BASE was to emphasize that the action one takes when one steals a base (the slide) is done so as to keep the runner in contact with the base…if a base stealer didn’t need to stay connected to the base, he or she would surely continue past said base
a similar, but not quite similar, example would be a moving vehicle (dissimilar because a cars’ wheels are round and as such are always in constant contact with the ground, whereas a runner or diver [slider] may be airborne, thus reducing the friction)…
is a motor vehicle BREAKING (an action similar to sliding) going faster than a motor vehicle not breaking (an action akin to running ‘through’ the bag)? no…sliding is NOT faster than running through the bag
the example someone (or a few) gave of a perfectly timed dive where the bag is touched (while airborne)without ever going into a full-fledged slide may be valid, but that’s NOT what eric byrnes is doing, that’s NOT what a base stealer does when he steals, and is not likely to be an encouraged practice in baseball
ergo…you can’t steal first base
[quote comment=”271187″]ARGH! Regarding the sliding-to-1st issue, there’s a lot of misunderstanding here.
1) track and field: the rules explicitly state that the finish is defined by when the runner’s torso breaches the finish line. link. That means there’s no advantage to diving no matter what, because you need to get your chest to the finish. Which is why sprinters finish their races with their chests thrust forward.
2) In bicycle racing, the finish is defined by the front wheel, so bike racers do a thrust at the finish (“bike throw”) that ends up pushing the (light) bicycle ahead of the (heavy) rider. In other words, the centre of mass of the bike-rider moves much less than the front edge of the front wheel for a moment.
What should we learn here? The bike racer who does a bike throw has to stop pedaling, so you must visualize that he would be slower at getting to some point beyond the finish, but he’s faster at getting to the finish itself.
3) How does this apply to sliding to first?
The rules for getting there say any part of the body has to touch the base. Since your mass is mostly in your torso and legs, rotating your arms and head forward should be able move your fingertips forward in space faster than you can propel your whole mass, doubly so since you’re leaving your legs behind, so to speak.
As a result, a well-executed head-first slide may allow for a talented base-runner to touch his fingertips to first slightly faster than he could run through the base. I make no submission as to whether that’s true in the real world, since there’s a few variables.
The variable that concerns me most is that I think fast base-runners would still be accelerating 90 feet after they started. The only reference I can find in a short search says that track sprinters accelerate for link from the blocks. This means a base-runner is not only choosing to decelerate by sliding, but may not be reaching peak possible terminal speed before sliding.
In conclusion, I don’t know if sliders into first base are faster, and neither do you. To the base paths![/quote]
Well thought out. Beattie Park, 15 minutes!
I don’t know if anyone put this or not but we may be forgetting one pretty important smoker…
link
anyone else know of smoking mascots?
[quote comment=”271197″]i think the whole point of paul’s title for this thread YOU CAN’T STEAL FIRST BASE was to emphasize that the action one takes when one steals a base (the slide) is done so as to keep the runner in contact with the base…if a base stealer didn’t need to stay connected to the base, he or she would surely continue past said base
a similar, but not quite similar, example would be a moving vehicle (dissimilar because a cars’ wheels are round and as such are always in constant contact with the ground, whereas a runner or diver [slider] may be airborne, thus reducing the friction)…
is a motor vehicle BREAKING (an action similar to sliding) going faster than a motor vehicle not breaking (an action akin to running ‘through’ the bag)? no…sliding is NOT faster than running through the bag
the example someone (or a few) gave of a perfectly timed dive where the bag is touched (while airborne)without ever going into a full-fledged slide may be valid, but that’s NOT what eric byrnes is doing, that’s NOT what a base stealer does when he steals, and is not likely to be an encouraged practice in baseball
ergo…you can’t steal first base[/quote]
Also well put.
I’m definitly saying that I belive that a dive, assuming we all agree any contact with the ground by with a slide makes you slower, even perfectly preformed as to slam your hands into the bag wouldn’t be any faster than running thru it, same mass in either case, going the smae speed, but now your bracing for a jump and not taking normal strides=slower, IMO. Not to mention the breaking your hands part. AKA, “Mr. Parkman, your a great ballplayer and I just like to say, your standing on the tracks and the train’s coming through butthead.”
The Tribe missed a 60 year-old club today record for consecutive scoreless inning by starters because of an unearned run. There is justice, however, it was the pitcher’s error.
I guess that is another thing Indians did in 1948 will never happen again.
[quote comment=”271197″]i think the whole point of paul’s title for this thread YOU CAN’T STEAL FIRST BASE was to emphasize that the action one takes when one steals a base (the slide) is done so as to keep the runner in contact with the base…if a base stealer didn’t need to stay connected to the base, he or she would surely continue past said base
a similar, but not quite similar, example would be a moving vehicle (dissimilar because a cars’ wheels are round and as such are always in constant contact with the ground, whereas a runner or diver [slider] may be airborne, thus reducing the friction)…
is a motor vehicle BREAKING (an action similar to sliding) going faster than a motor vehicle not breaking (an action akin to running ‘through’ the bag)? no…sliding is NOT faster than running through the bag
the example someone (or a few) gave of a perfectly timed dive where the bag is touched (while airborne)without ever going into a full-fledged slide may be valid, but that’s NOT what eric byrnes is doing, that’s NOT what a base stealer does when he steals, and is not likely to be an encouraged practice in baseball
ergo…you can’t steal first base[/quote]
AJ Pierzynski can
link
HA (found when looking for above link):
link
[quote comment=”271201″]I don’t know if anyone put this or not but we may be forgetting one pretty important smoker…
link
anyone else know of smoking mascots?[/quote]
must … not … yield … to … temptation …..
[quote comment=”271193″]Do you suppose tomorrow’s subject will be: “Why Beautiful Woman Are Normal”?
[/quote]
I can assure you: Beautiful women aren’t normal.
I know.
I checked.
speaking of diving. Willie Harris just made the greatest diving catch I have ever seen against the Mets, he was hanging off the ground for a good amount of time, with full extension…God damnit
[quote comment=”271213″]speaking of diving. Willie Harris just made the greatest diving catch I have ever seen against the Mets, he was hanging off the ground for a good amount of time, with full extension…God damnit[/quote]
Showboat.
[quote comment=”271213″]speaking of diving. Willie Harris just made the greatest diving catch I have ever seen against the Mets, he was hanging off the ground for a good amount of time, with full extension…God damnit[/quote]
was he making a catch or sliding into first?
[quote comment=”271206″][quote comment=”271197″]i think the whole point of paul’s title for this thread YOU CAN’T STEAL FIRST BASE was to emphasize that the action one takes when one steals a base (the slide) is done so as to keep the runner in contact with the base…if a base stealer didn’t need to stay connected to the base, he or she would surely continue past said base
a similar, but not quite similar, example would be a moving vehicle (dissimilar because a cars’ wheels are round and as such are always in constant contact with the ground, whereas a runner or diver [slider] may be airborne, thus reducing the friction)…
is a motor vehicle BREAKING (an action similar to sliding) going faster than a motor vehicle not breaking (an action akin to running ‘through’ the bag)? no…sliding is NOT faster than running through the bag
the example someone (or a few) gave of a perfectly timed dive where the bag is touched (while airborne)without ever going into a full-fledged slide may be valid, but that’s NOT what eric byrnes is doing, that’s NOT what a base stealer does when he steals, and is not likely to be an encouraged practice in baseball
ergo…you can’t steal first base[/quote]
AJ Pierzynski can
link
HA (found when looking for above link):
link
The only thing he stole was the hearts of every White Sox fan. We love the bastard!
[quote comment=”271142″][quote comment=”271108″][quote comment=”271097″]If you dive into first like Eric Byrnes and hurl yourself all over the outfield for batted balls unnecessarily — like, um, Eric Byrnes — you will be called “gritty” and “a gamer” who “plays the game the right way”, and you will become disproportionately popular among casual fans, and troglodytes like Joe Morgan will praise you, and Fox will hire you as a guest analyst.
(But only if you’re a white guy. There are no Latino “gamers”.)[/quote]
Hey, like Jim Edmonds! That a-hole has been diving at routine fly balls for years. Don’t forget the sprint around the bases after the home run … after watching it land.
I’m so happy he’s a Cub now!
I want to die.[/quote]
I remember a few years ago when the over-rated Edmonds and the Cards played Atlanta. There was a runner on second and a fly ball it to semi shallow center feild, Edmonds of course has to dive to make a scene but then he just laid there and allowed the runner to tag up and get to third. I was dumb founded and I am a Braves fan.[/quote]
link
That’s pretty standard – shirts are lettered for virtually every big match.
Arsenal Champions League Final, couple years ago:
link…
Ebbsfleet United FA Trophy Final shirt, last week:
link…
National teams do this as well:
link…
Agreed on the lettering, I just thought it odd that they are using next year’s jersey for this game, rather than this year’s.
[quote comment=”271215″][quote comment=”271213″]speaking of diving. Willie Harris just made the greatest diving catch I have ever seen against the Mets, he was hanging off the ground for a good amount of time, with full extension…God damnit[/quote]
was he making a catch or sliding into first?[/quote]
Ummm…catch, thats why I said diving catch. He absoulutely had to dive to get this one. Watch sportscenter tonight, you’ll see what I mean.
[quote comment=”271223″][quote comment=”271215″][quote comment=”271213″]speaking of diving. Willie Harris just made the greatest diving catch I have ever seen against the Mets, he was hanging off the ground for a good amount of time, with full extension…God damnit[/quote]
was he making a catch or sliding into first?[/quote]
Ummm…catch, thats why I said diving catch. He absoulutely had to dive to get this one. Watch sportscenter tonight, you’ll see what I mean.[/quote]
sorry chad…i guess you missed the comments today
AJ Pierzynski?
Ah, yes, the Giants gave up Liriano, Bonser and Nathan to get that horse’s butt.
And we’re surprised they threw all that money at Barry Zippo?
[quote comment=”271224″][quote comment=”271223″][quote comment=”271215″][quote comment=”271213″]speaking of diving. Willie Harris just made the greatest diving catch I have ever seen against the Mets, he was hanging off the ground for a good amount of time, with full extension…God damnit[/quote]
was he making a catch or sliding into first?[/quote]
Ummm…catch, thats why I said diving catch. He absoulutely had to dive to get this one. Watch sportscenter tonight, you’ll see what I mean.[/quote]
sorry chad…i guess you missed the comments today[/quote]
Phil, why are you being an ass, half the chatter was about the stupid diving outfield play of Edmonds and Byrnes…so wtf?
[quote comment=”271228″][quote comment=”271224″][quote comment=”271223″][quote comment=”271215″][quote comment=”271213″]speaking of diving. Willie Harris just made the greatest diving catch I have ever seen against the Mets, he was hanging off the ground for a good amount of time, with full extension…God damnit[/quote]
was he making a catch or sliding into first?[/quote]
Ummm…catch, thats why I said diving catch. He absoulutely had to dive to get this one. Watch sportscenter tonight, you’ll see what I mean.[/quote]
sorry chad…i guess you missed the comments today[/quote]
Phil, why are you being an ass, half the chatter was about the stupid diving outfield play of Edmonds and Byrnes…so wtf?[/quote]
chad…i apologize, man
the other half were about how it’s possible to get to first by diving (a la the play you described)
i was just trying to be funny…obviously i failed
please accept my apologies
[quote comment=”271135″][quote comment=”270949″]My theory is that ballplayers, as a whole, are not the most intelligent group of folks in the world, and that they play on instinct as much as anything else. [/quote]
Thats just a ridiculous statement. Sounds like a comment from a former nerd who couldn’t throw a baseball and now makes himself feel better by showing how he’s smarter than those damn jocks.
[/quote]
Did I hit too close to a nerve on that one? Yes, I am a nerd. But I also played baseball all through high school (not good enough to play in college), and yes, 90% of my teammates were not very bright.
[quote comment=”271166″]”they play on instinct as much as anything else. What else could explain Manny’s incredible career?”
Uh, maybe that he IS intelligent and you’re not stupid just because you have weird hair and a baggy uniform?
(By the way, making the same tired “Manny doesn’t know what he’s doing” joke at this point is about as original as a “Who Let the Dogs Out?” joke.)[/quote]
Have you not seen interviews with some of Manny’s former teammates? Not a one of them has praised his intelligence. Instead, they marvel at his imbecility.
[quote comment=”271220″][quote comment=”271142″][quote comment=”271108″][quote comment=”271097″]If you dive into first like Eric Byrnes and hurl yourself all over the outfield for batted balls unnecessarily — like, um, Eric Byrnes — you will be called “gritty” and “a gamer” who “plays the game the right way”, and you will become disproportionately popular among casual fans, and troglodytes like Joe Morgan will praise you, and Fox will hire you as a guest analyst.
(But only if you’re a white guy. There are no Latino “gamers”.)[/quote]
Hey, like Jim Edmonds! That a-hole has been diving at routine fly balls for years. Don’t forget the sprint around the bases after the home run … after watching it land.
I’m so happy he’s a Cub now!
I want to die.[/quote]
I remember a few years ago when the over-rated Edmonds and the Cards played Atlanta. There was a runner on second and a fly ball it to semi shallow center feild, Edmonds of course has to dive to make a scene but then he just laid there and allowed the runner to tag up and get to third. I was dumb founded and I am a Braves fan.[/quote]
link
Offensive numbers alone do not make him one of the greatest center fielders. He is notorious for taking late breaks on balls just so he can try to dive for them. Some people claim Piazza is the greatest catcher to which I respond, offensively he probably is but there is no way he is the best all around catcher. He couldn’t throw out a grandma and her walker on the base paths.
[quote comment=”271233″][quote comment=”271166″]”they play on instinct as much as anything else. What else could explain Manny’s incredible career?”
Uh, maybe that he IS intelligent and you’re not stupid just because you have weird hair and a baggy uniform?
(By the way, making the same tired “Manny doesn’t know what he’s doing” joke at this point is about as original as a “Who Let the Dogs Out?” joke.)[/quote]
Have you not seen interviews with some of Manny’s former teammates? Not a one of them has praised his intelligence. Instead, they marvel at his imbecility.[/quote]
He’s smarter than we think, crazy like a fox. Definitly one of the guys you’d love only if he was on your team, and hate him otehrwise. Like the aforementioned Mr. Pierzynski, etc.
[quote comment=”271095″][quote comment=”271094″]I think sometimes sliding head first is a deceptive tool. Majority of the time the umpire is standing behind the bag an if your hands are on the ground as is Eric Byrnes’ it might appear your sfae when you might be a couple inches from the bag due to bag blocking umpire’s view. this is why i have done it soemtimes.[/quote]
a good umpire’s view wouldn’t be blocked…unless he’s lying on the ground[/quote]
good… umpire, aren’t those mutually exclusive?
Nah, even when he was here with Twins, most of AJ’s teammates wanted his butt outta here. There were no sad faces the day he was traded.
Same thing with Chuck Knoblauch. What a self-absorbed little johnson-head (remember him with the Yankees, standing there bitching while the ball rolled 10 feet behind him and runners advanced?) Ya, he was a real team player, alright.
[quote comment=”271230″][quote comment=”271228″][quote comment=”271224″][quote comment=”271223″][quote comment=”271215″][quote comment=”271213″]speaking of diving. Willie Harris just made the greatest diving catch I have ever seen against the Mets, he was hanging off the ground for a good amount of time, with full extension…God damnit[/quote]
was he making a catch or sliding into first?[/quote]
Ummm…catch, thats why I said diving catch. He absoulutely had to dive to get this one. Watch sportscenter tonight, you’ll see what I mean.[/quote]
sorry chad…i guess you missed the comments today[/quote]
Phil, why are you being an ass, half the chatter was about the stupid diving outfield play of Edmonds and Byrnes…so wtf?[/quote]
chad…i apologize, man
the other half were about how it’s possible to get to first by diving (a la the play you described)
i was just trying to be funny…obviously i failed
please accept my apologies[/quote]
If you, sir, are a failure, then I want to be a failure.
That said, a local TV station’s photoshop job is one thing. a link is what it REALLY takes to make me feel ill.
(Disclaimer: I can’t stand the guy. He’s annoying. Arrogant. Obnoxious. But he’s also practically free and has a lot more World Series rings than the rest of the life-long Cubs from the past eight decades combined! Might as well give him a chance)
[quote comment=”271243″][quote comment=”271230″][quote comment=”271228″][quote comment=”271224″][quote comment=”271223″][quote comment=”271215″][quote comment=”271213″]speaking of diving. Willie Harris just made the greatest diving catch I have ever seen against the Mets, he was hanging off the ground for a good amount of time, with full extension…God damnit[/quote]
was he making a catch or sliding into first?[/quote]
Ummm…catch, thats why I said diving catch. He absoulutely had to dive to get this one. Watch sportscenter tonight, you’ll see what I mean.[/quote]
sorry chad…i guess you missed the comments today[/quote]
Phil, why are you being an ass, half the chatter was about the stupid diving outfield play of Edmonds and Byrnes…so wtf?[/quote]
chad…i apologize, man
the other half were about how it’s possible to get to first by diving (a la the play you described)
i was just trying to be funny…obviously i failed
please accept my apologies[/quote]
If you, sir, are a failure, then I want to be a failure.
That said, a local TV station’s photoshop job is one thing. a link is what it REALLY takes to make me feel ill.
(Disclaimer: I can’t stand the guy. He’s annoying. Arrogant. Obnoxious. But he’s also practically free and has a lot more World Series rings than the rest of the life-long Cubs from the past eight decades combined! Might as well give him a chance)[/quote]
Makes you ill?!?! Try owning his Cards jersey – seeing that picture almost made me throw up
[quote comment=”271141″][quote comment=”271136″]…and my photoshop for the day:
link
Reminds me of “Major League” when Wesley Snipes/Willy Mays Hayes slides headfirst into second base and ends up three feet short.[/quote]
Last night, the umpire in my softball game goes “You may run like Hayes. but you hit like sh*t.” to another guy on my team. Too funny!
[quote comment=”271245″]
Makes you ill?!?! Try owning his Cards jersey – seeing that picture almost made me throw up[/quote]
I can’t remember any transaction that’s caused so much strife for both sides at the same time!
Paul,
I really hope Carlos having his socks up didn’t have anything to do with him getting doubled off third to end it. Tough one today.
It leads to a good question: a few usual low cuffed Mets have been going high lately. Reyes was high cuffed when he first came up in ’03 (maybe because he was used to the minor league mandate) and I don’t recall seeing Beltran ever go high definitely since his stint with the Mets and maybe not even with the ‘stros or Royals. Something to this? I know David Wright has been doing high for afternoon games and lows for nights since last year and Delgado switches them up from time to time. A trend emerging?
[quote comment=”271252″][quote comment=”271245″]
Makes you ill?!?! Try owning his Cards jersey – seeing that picture almost made me throw up[/quote]
I can’t remember any transaction that’s caused so much strife for both sides at the same time![/quote]
That does remind me how amusing it was to see the blank look on the face of the co-owner of “F15teen” (Edmonds St. Louis restaurant) when asked who he’d be rooting for today.
(followed by some lame “I won’t be rooting against the Cardinals, I’ll be rooting for Jimmy” type of comment)
[quote comment=”271236″][quote comment=”271220″][quote comment=”271142″][quote comment=”271108″][quote comment=”271097″]If you dive into first like Eric Byrnes and hurl yourself all over the outfield for batted balls unnecessarily — like, um, Eric Byrnes — you will be called “gritty” and “a gamer” who “plays the game the right way”, and you will become disproportionately popular among casual fans, and troglodytes like Joe Morgan will praise you, and Fox will hire you as a guest analyst.
(But only if you’re a white guy. There are no Latino “gamers”.)[/quote]
Hey, like Jim Edmonds! That a-hole has been diving at routine fly balls for years. Don’t forget the sprint around the bases after the home run … after watching it land.
I’m so happy he’s a Cub now!
I want to die.[/quote]
I remember a few years ago when the over-rated Edmonds and the Cards played Atlanta. There was a runner on second and a fly ball it to semi shallow center feild, Edmonds of course has to dive to make a scene but then he just laid there and allowed the runner to tag up and get to third. I was dumb founded and I am a Braves fan.[/quote]
link
Offensive numbers alone do not make him one of the greatest center fielders. He is notorious for taking late breaks on balls just so he can try to dive for them. [/quote]
Maybe so, but he sure has had great fielding stats (i.e. Win Shares, Zone Ratings). And, um, those 8 Gold Gloves. Plus the greatest single outfield play I’ve ever seen. I’ll admit I’m a biased Cardinal fan, but I can’t think of many players I’ve enjoyed more in my 45 years as a fan.
How hasn’t Paul replied about this photo? I’m shocked!
link
[quote comment=”271259″]How hasn’t Paul replied about this photo? I’m shocked!
link
link to the party, sir.
(Is #4 on the right smoking?)
[quote comment=”271266″][quote comment=”271259″]How hasn’t Paul replied about this photo? I’m shocked!
link
link to the party, sir.
(Is #4 on the right smoking?)[/quote]
Sorry to follow up myself, but Mr. Lukas was at the Mets game today, so he probably hasn’t yet seen that picture. But I’m sure he’ll be pleased.
[quote]Is #4 on the right smoking?[/quote]
um…
oh…a cigarette…looks like it
[quote comment=”271271″][quote]Is #4 on the right smoking?[/quote]
um…
oh…a cigarette…looks like it[/quote]
I think it’s a golf tee.
Because, while everyone views him as a tough gritty ball player, Eric Byrnes is nothing more than a show off who doesn’t stupid crap like that just so that people will talk about how hard he plays the game.
[quote comment=”271266″][quote comment=”271259″]How hasn’t Paul replied about this photo? I’m shocked!
link
link to the party, sir.
(Is #4 on the right smoking?)[/quote]
Late to my own party?
Nope, she ain’t smokin’. I woulda noticed. I’ve been obsessed with athlete smokers since Paul put up that blog a few months ago.
link
[quote comment=”271288″][quote comment=”271266″][quote comment=”271259″]How hasn’t Paul replied about this photo? I’m shocked!
link
link to the party, sir.
(Is #4 on the right smoking?)[/quote]
Late to my own party?
Nope, she ain’t smokin’. I woulda noticed. I’ve been obsessed with athlete smokers since Paul put up that blog a few months ago.
link
Since it would be politically incorrect and horribly insensitive to do so, I promise NOT to suggest that the players on that team certainly appear to live up to the name on the front of their jerseys!
I’ve made some updates to my website on hockey sweaters here:
link
Paul, can you post that link on the ticker. I need some publicity!!! Thanks.
By the way, on the topic of jockey silks, I imagine you’ve heard of Kentucky’s new “Secretariat” basketball jerseys, with the shorts pattern based on that horse’s checkerboard look. Just checking!
So the mythbusters with the sliding segment was filmed here at the University of the Pacific, we all went out to watch a little bit of the filming during our lunch breaks and were surprised when it finally aired that it was only a 3 minute segment, they were out there filming for hours, and they seriously did not address everything they could have. Oh and if their slides during the segment looked bad you should have seen their practice ones they took in the outfield as our coach tried to teach them…High comedy!!
Incase anyone is interested you can see Willie Harris’ diving catch in the video here:
link
[quote comment=”271306″]Incase anyone is interested you can see Willie Harris’ diving catch in the video here:
link
BETTER VIDEO:
link
[quote comment=”271291″][quote comment=”271288″](Is #4 on the right smoking?[/quote]
Nope, she ain’t smokin’.[/quote]
you ain’t kiddin’
[quote comment=”271324″][quote comment=”271306″]Incase anyone is interested you can see Willie Harris’ diving catch in the video here:
link
BETTER VIDEO:
link
holy shit that’s a nice catch…almost glad i didn’t see the game (how bout some bats for the pelfry?)…but thanks for posting that
/sorry again bout teh unfunny earlier
[quote comment=”271217″][quote comment=”271206″][quote comment=”271197″]i think the whole point of paul’s title for this thread YOU CAN’T STEAL FIRST BASE was to emphasize that the action one takes when one steals a base (the slide) is done so as to keep the runner in contact with the base…if a base stealer didn’t need to stay connected to the base, he or she would surely continue past said base
a similar, but not quite similar, example would be a moving vehicle (dissimilar because a cars’ wheels are round and as such are always in constant contact with the ground, whereas a runner or diver [slider] may be airborne, thus reducing the friction)…
is a motor vehicle BREAKING (an action similar to sliding) going faster than a motor vehicle not breaking (an action akin to running ‘through’ the bag)? no…sliding is NOT faster than running through the bag
the example someone (or a few) gave of a perfectly timed dive where the bag is touched (while airborne)without ever going into a full-fledged slide may be valid, but that’s NOT what eric byrnes is doing, that’s NOT what a base stealer does when he steals, and is not likely to be an encouraged practice in baseball
ergo…you can’t steal first base[/quote]
AJ Pierzynski can
link
HA (found when looking for above link):
link
The only thing he stole was the hearts of every White Sox fan. We love the bastard![/quote]
Funny, cause Giants fans can’t stand him.
[quote comment=”271344″][quote comment=”271217″][quote comment=”271206″][quote comment=”271197″]i think the whole point of paul’s title for this thread YOU CAN’T STEAL FIRST BASE was to emphasize that the action one takes when one steals a base (the slide) is done so as to keep the runner in contact with the base…if a base stealer didn’t need to stay connected to the base, he or she would surely continue past said base
a similar, but not quite similar, example would be a moving vehicle (dissimilar because a cars’ wheels are round and as such are always in constant contact with the ground, whereas a runner or diver [slider] may be airborne, thus reducing the friction)…
is a motor vehicle BREAKING (an action similar to sliding) going faster than a motor vehicle not breaking (an action akin to running ‘through’ the bag)? no…sliding is NOT faster than running through the bag
the example someone (or a few) gave of a perfectly timed dive where the bag is touched (while airborne)without ever going into a full-fledged slide may be valid, but that’s NOT what eric byrnes is doing, that’s NOT what a base stealer does when he steals, and is not likely to be an encouraged practice in baseball
ergo…you can’t steal first base[/quote]
AJ Pierzynski can
link
HA (found when looking for above link):
link
The only thing he stole was the hearts of every White Sox fan. We love the bastard![/quote]
Funny, cause Giants fans can’t stand him.[/quote]
Neither could the Giants pitching staff.
Anybody notice link Robert Ullman drawing?
Peter Griffin, link? Mine exactly.
[quote comment=”271231″][quote comment=”271135″][quote comment=”270949″]My theory is that ballplayers, as a whole, are not the most intelligent group of folks in the world, and that they play on instinct as much as anything else. [/quote]
Thats just a ridiculous statement. Sounds like a comment from a former nerd who couldn’t throw a baseball and now makes himself feel better by showing how he’s smarter than those damn jocks.
[/quote]
Did I hit too close to a nerve on that one? Yes, I am a nerd. But I also played baseball all through high school (not good enough to play in college), and yes, 90% of my teammates were not very bright.[/quote]
Let me guess…you were really good at keeping the book.