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Friday. Toronto. Debacle.

tigers

There’s a longtime Royals fan in my office. He’s the kind of guy who has a Cooperstown Collection George Brett jersey — powder blue, of course — and hailed the return of the once-abandoned hue. In fact, his only complaint was that the powder blue jersey didn’t look good with a royal blue hat and white pants. Well, duh. No, he would have preferred the full treatment, ala the Blue Jays … even though that’s a road uniform.

“Who cares?” he says. “It’s for the fans.”

Actually, it’s for their money. And those Blue Jays uniforms aren’t going to create any new fans. The more I look at them, the more I’m turned off not by the colors, but by the tailoring. They’re too baggy, both the jerseys and pants. Oh, and it’s still a road uniform.

But on to what made me choose today’s picture. First, it’s Carlos Guillen in all of his titanium-enriched splendor. I’m amazed every time I see all of that. Second, there’s the mismatching gray on Edgar Renteria. Stranger still is that Guillen is wearing the regular jersey and — surprisingly — looks fine. From what I’ve seen over the last year or so, it seems that if one guy wears Cool Base, they all do. This, obviously, was not the case on Friday.

So come on, Toronto — let’s get this stuff fixed, huh? — Bryan

 

59 comments to Friday. Toronto. Debacle.

  • Bill | April 19, 2008 at 8:47 am |

    That’s why I can’t stand some of these throwbacks: they’re too baggy. I think if you’re going to do a throwback night, you may as well not half ass it and tailor them the way players wore them back in the day. See: Laker shorts.

  • Paul Lukas | April 19, 2008 at 8:50 am |

    We appear to be having some commenting problems. I can comment with no problem, but other people’s comments are getting caught by the spam filter. I’m about to head off to Philly for the day, so I can’t do anything about this (as opposed to being home, in which case I wouldn’t know how to do anything about it), but I’ve left an e-mail for John and will call him later in the day to follow up (too early to call him now). Sorry for the hassle.

  • Tape | April 19, 2008 at 9:43 am |

    You do know that Guillen and Renteria play for detroit, not Toronto, right?

  • James Craven | April 19, 2008 at 9:48 am |

    Sorry I won’t be there today. My cheapskate wife won’t let me go.

  • Johnny O | April 19, 2008 at 9:51 am |

    [quote comment=”254581″]That’s why I can’t stand some of these throwbacks: they’re too baggy. I think if you’re going to do a throwback night, you may as well not half ass it and tailor them the way players wore them back in the day. See: Laker shorts.[/quote]

    Ummm, do we really want to see Prince Fielder or CC Sabathia in form-fitting retro uni’s?

    Just kidding, I would love to see team “go all the way” in reference to retro uni’s. If you are gonna do something, do it right.

  • LI Phil | April 19, 2008 at 9:56 am |

    don’t bust on carlos’ choice of flair

    when im on the golf course, i wear my trionz necklace & bracelet, phiten titanium power sleeve, i eat anadrol, oxandrin, dianabol, and winstrol for breakfast, drink a six pack of bull and hit my HAMMER driver 550 yards

    POW!

  • Chip | April 19, 2008 at 10:13 am |

    I was at a AAA game between the Charlotte Knights and the Scranton/Wilkes Barre Yankees last night, and noticed two things. One, as much as I hate the Yankees (I’m a Sox guy), Scranton appears to make all their players wear high socks. In fact, the second baseman appeared to hate this so much he had his pants bloused high, but folded so that they looked more like highwater pants. Second, Eric Duncan, the Yankees third baseman, was wearing his pants bloused just right, at the top of his calf, and was wearing full high stirrups. He looked amazing, and I think the stirrups helped him to a 2 homer night, to which my girlfriend replied “yeah right.”

  • Bryan Redemske | April 19, 2008 at 10:44 am |

    [quote comment=”254619″]You do know that Guillen and Renteria play for detroit, not Toronto, right?[/quote]

    “Come on Toronto” as in “Fix this as a city, Toronto,” not “Damn you, Blue Jays! Damn you.”

  • MikeyB | April 19, 2008 at 10:45 am |

    Those uniforms are to get more fans. Since they got them back, I’ve become a fan of the Blue Jays. Only on Fridays when they’re not playing the BoSox, that is.

  • Roger Faso | April 19, 2008 at 10:52 am |

    Toronto and Kansas alternates aren’t that bad. Try being an A’s fan. Their black alternates are restoopulid.

  • LI Phil | April 19, 2008 at 11:07 am |

    [quote comment=”254650″]I was at a AAA game between the Charlotte Knights and the Scranton/Wilkes Barre Yankees last night[/quote]

    charlotte still wearing this?

  • Thorold Blair | April 19, 2008 at 11:14 am |

    Teams do everything for the money.. if you think otherwise you’re delusional. They come up with these retro designs… for the money. They charge you 7 bucks for a beer… for the money. They take the field every night… FOR THE MONEY. So to be angered or upset over these blue throwbacks even though they’re a road uniform because they’re just for the money.. is ridiculous. If you’re that upset about trying to make money.. stop watching sports, because from now til the day you die it will be a business about.. get this.. making money!

  • MetsFan AZ | April 19, 2008 at 11:41 am |

    Quick question, who is the uniwatcher (btw – i prefer UNI-ts as a groupie moniker) that keeps track of the various Mets uniform combinations and their record in each one? I was just wondering when was the last time they wore the blue hat with the road grays.

  • John Ekdahl | April 19, 2008 at 11:52 am |

    Our spam filter is being a little bit temperamental right now, so we’re forced to manually approve comments for the time being. Please continue to comment; doing this will help fix the spam filter’s AI.

    Thanks for your patience.

  • Luke Mohamed | April 19, 2008 at 12:39 pm |

    There’s still nothing wrong with the Blue Jays uniforms. Sorry Bryan that someone is a but unique.

  • =bg= | April 19, 2008 at 12:45 pm |

    Maybe I am just Not Getting It™, but those Tigers unis look the same to me.

  • Stevo | April 19, 2008 at 12:46 pm |

    There was a front page article (not front page Sports, but FRONT PAGE) in the Des Moines Register about a metro little league that is using team names and logos from the Negro Leagues.

  • ClankyIronBoots | April 19, 2008 at 12:59 pm |

    Different shades of gray on Renteria? I don’t see it.

  • Chip | April 19, 2008 at 1:56 pm |

    nah, they wear pinstripes at home now, usually…except when they decide to combine forest green vests with navy undershirts.

  • mike | April 19, 2008 at 2:11 pm |

    I’m going to jump up and defend the new (old) Jays uniforms. I grew up in Toronto, saw my first game in the first home stand with my dad in 1977 at the Ex, and have seen hundreds of games since.

    The team has been around for 30 years or so. The first fifteen years we fell in love with the team. They sucked as an expansion team, the stadium sucked, and we fell in love with them anyway. They drew two million fans to the Ex, they got good, they broke our hearts in 85, and 87.

    So many of our best memories are associated with the double blue and white. The memorable moments of the franchise, George Bell, Dave Stieb, Jim Clancy, Lloyd Moseby, Jesse Barfield…

    The last fifteen years, after the World Series years, they monkeyed with the uniform over and over, now we have this strange gray-black thing that looks like it was designed by a committee with input from a focus group. I still watch the games, but when I look at this team I don’t feel any connection to the team we fell in love with in the 70s and 80s.

    The retro unis bring that feeling back. I see David Eckstein wearing the 11 and think of George Bell. I’ve watched the two powder blue games and for the first time in a long time thought “this is the team I grew up watching”. Any other night, watching them play in grey and black with an unfamiliar logo that seems to change year to year, you think “who are these guys”. (did you know they’ve had four different primary logos since they went away from the original logo? How do you build a connection to that?)

    This is one reason why uniforms are so important. The players change year to year, but the uniform endures. Its why radical changes to the uniform so rarely work out well, particularly when teams move away from unis they had a lot of success in.

    One of a team’s primary assets is the goodwill built up in its fans, in their collective memory, and I see this as a way of tapping into that goodwill. Of course its about money, but its not just about selling more merchandise, its about selling more tickets and making the team relevant again.

  • Jordan Pope | April 19, 2008 at 2:16 pm |

    [quote comment=”254748″]There was a front page article (not front page Sports, but FRONT PAGE) in the Des Moines Register about a metro little league that is using team names and logos from the Negro Leagues.[/quote]

    thats really interesting
    ive never heard of that
    the little league where i’m from has some of the worst uniforms ever maybe they should get these

  • Judd | April 19, 2008 at 2:18 pm |

    Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, and if it has, oh well. Live with it.

    Red Sox will be wearing a patch on Earth Day.

  • =bg= | April 19, 2008 at 2:55 pm |

    Bid now on the Ortiz jersey from the new NYY stadium…just up to 68K.

  • JeffM | April 19, 2008 at 3:33 pm |

    I agree with Bryan. When teams wear throwbacks from the late 1800’s or early 1900’s they wear them extra baggy, which was the style back then. So why can’t the Jays wear them tighter, like the style of the throwback

  • zach | April 19, 2008 at 3:56 pm |

    i think the jays alts look sweet, especially the hats. nit-picking on how baggy players wear their uniforms seems pointless. it’s just fashion, and it will be something different in ten years. the tightness of baseball uniforms has evolved from baggy to tight to baggy etc.

  • DP30 | April 19, 2008 at 4:04 pm |

    While watching Jamie Moyer warm up, I noticed a minor issue I have with the Phillies’ alternate unis (which I personally really like).

    I find it strange that the striping, along with the lettering and numbering on the back of the jerseys, is red outlined in blue…yet on the front of the jersey, the script “Phillies” is red-on-white, much like their standard unis.

    Wouldn’t this look a little better if they went the extra step and outlined the Phillies in blue, just so it’s consistent all-around?

  • who cares | April 19, 2008 at 4:53 pm |

    I found an unexpected site today. More equipment-related than uni-related but the juxtaposition of Ghana and Baseball prompted me to post it anyway. I saw the national team play in Legon about a decade ago and though I appreciate their passion for the game I’m not sure I’m going to rush out and buy their bat.

  • LI Phil | April 19, 2008 at 4:55 pm |

    [quote comment=”254803″]i think the jays alts look sweet, especially the hats. nit-picking on how baggy players wear their uniforms seems pointless. it’s just fashion, and it will be something different in ten years. the tightness of baseball uniforms has evolved from baggy to tight to baggy etc.[/quote]

    while i would agree that now, yes, it’s just fashion…there was a reason those old uni’s were baggy…they were made of fabric (wool) that was not nearly as comfortable nor as pliable (especially compared to the spandex-like materials available today)…while you may personally disagree with the tighter unis that began in the 1960’s and got REALLY tight in the 1970’s and 1980’s, (thank you, double knits)…i don’t think there’s any reason today for players to have such unkepmt and baggy (pajama) looking unis…they’re not throwing back to the 1950s…

    i am not advocating to the supertight unis of the double-knit era, but im sorry, i don’t agree with this ‘fashion’ statement of today…that’s just my opinion of course, but there is no reason for it…i think it looks stupid and slovenly and even lazy…again, just my 2 centivos, but like steve austin…we have the technology now, we can rebuild them

    asking for a return to stirrups (which are also a relic of a by-gone era and no longer necessary) would be asking too much, to be sure…

    all im asking is that they dump the pj look and return to some semblance of professionalism

    /now please vacate my front yard

  • Peter | April 19, 2008 at 5:00 pm |

    I was at this game and have a few comments. Although I’m a tigers fan I have been going to Jays games since 1989 because I live in Ontario. So I have some appreciation for the history of the club. I kinda like the powder blue look because as a Blue Jays throwback it’s a good choice. The execution is kind of weird to see in person, esp when they are playing a team in their road unis. From the 500 level at Skydome they kind of looked like they were made out of the material they use for feety pyjamas.Also Looking around the stadium there are so many different uniform and hat styles on the fans it is almost hard to tell they are all cheering for the same team. The Jays change way too much. Maybe I have been spoiled but the fairly consistent Tigers look.

  • Marcus Hall - B-More | April 19, 2008 at 5:06 pm |

    an O’s fan, but I do remember George Bell as well — great hair!!

  • Marcus Hall - B-More | April 19, 2008 at 5:39 pm |

    [quote comment=”254805″]While watching Jamie Moyer warm up, I noticed a minor issue I have with the Phillies’ alternate unis (which I personally really like).

    I find it strange that the striping, along with the lettering and numbering on the back of the jerseys, is red outlined in blue…yet on the front of the jersey, the script “Phillies” is red-on-white, much like their standard unis.

    Wouldn’t this look a little better if they went the extra step and outlined the Phillies in blue, just so it’s consistent all-around?[/quote]

    sometimes it’s just a little detail that can set of the entire uniform. It bugs me that the orioles black alternative doesn’t have any trim on the orange “orioles” logo. i think something like the Giants black jerseys that were worn or even using a little bit of the yellow/gold as a trim color that is in our team logo would be something different. hell, a splash of green even. SOMETHING other than the plain boring home white, road gray, black alternative (of course, a black alt IS appropriate for us since it’s part of what it means to be an oriole and the city.

  • Marcus Hall - B-More | April 19, 2008 at 5:49 pm |
  • Robert | April 19, 2008 at 6:19 pm |

    [quote comment=”254775″]I’m going to jump up and defend the new (old) Jays uniforms. I grew up in Toronto, saw my first game in the first home stand with my dad in 1977 at the Ex, and have seen hundreds of games since.

    The team has been around for 30 years or so. The first fifteen years we fell in love with the team. They sucked as an expansion team, the stadium sucked, and we fell in love with them anyway. They drew two million fans to the Ex, they got good, they broke our hearts in 85, and 87.

    So many of our best memories are associated with the double blue and white. The memorable moments of the franchise, George Bell, Dave Stieb, Jim Clancy, Lloyd Moseby, Jesse Barfield…

    The last fifteen years, after the World Series years, they monkeyed with the uniform over and over, now we have this strange gray-black thing that looks like it was designed by a committee with input from a focus group. I still watch the games, but when I look at this team I don’t feel any connection to the team we fell in love with in the 70s and 80s.

    The retro unis bring that feeling back. I see David Eckstein wearing the 11 and think of George Bell. I’ve watched the two powder blue games and for the first time in a long time thought “this is the team I grew up watching”. Any other night, watching them play in grey and black with an unfamiliar logo that seems to change year to year, you think “who are these guys”. (did you know they’ve had four different primary logos since they went away from the original logo? How do you build a connection to that?)

    This is one reason why uniforms are so important. The players change year to year, but the uniform endures. Its why radical changes to the uniform so rarely work out well, particularly when teams move away from unis they had a lot of success in.

    One of a team’s primary assets is the goodwill built up in its fans, in their collective memory, and I see this as a way of tapping into that goodwill. Of course its about money, but its not just about selling more merchandise, its about selling more tickets and making the team relevant again.[/quote]

    You make a compelling argument. I hated every team’s powder blues way back when and I still hate them now, but your position gives me new respect for those who do enjoy them.

  • LI Phil | April 19, 2008 at 7:17 pm |

    [quote comment=”254844″]Baltimore Road Uni Beauty!!![/quote]

    that’s a GREAT pic

    check out the big bank’s stirrups…they have ‘extenders’!!!

    sweet

  • Jon Horton | April 19, 2008 at 7:27 pm |

    This is not a uniform note per se, but it does have to do with the surroundings of sport.

    I am watching tonight’s Montreal/Boston game from the TD Bankworth Garden, and many of the dasher board advertisements are in French or catered to a Canadian audience. The Pizza Pizza ad (which has their number) Jeldwen (the tag line is in French), Air Canada and CKAC Sports (which I believe is the Habs flagship) are all Canadian ads. I am thinking they may be virtual ads because the Pizza ad looks to blink.

    I have seen some of the Canadian based ads at Detroit and Toronto, which makes sense… but in Boston???

    Has anyone else ever remembered any team selling sponsorship space to cater to the opponent’s fans?

  • Conner | April 19, 2008 at 7:36 pm |

    No pictures but I did notice that the Braves’ starter last night, Jeff Bennett, was wearing some very nice stirrups and they did look sweet! Anyone get pics from that game?

  • David | April 19, 2008 at 7:45 pm |

    In this video clip of ESPN top 150 WR Victor Keise who just commited to the Golden Gophers of Minnesota if you look right at 1:00 both teams are wearing their home uniforms which look to be black vs navy in a night game, kinda strange.

    http://www.youtube.c...

  • Nick Hanson | April 19, 2008 at 7:55 pm |

    Anyone know what the armbands are for? Only a few players, not all of them, are wearing them. They appear to have something written in black on the side. In memory of former Red Sox/Rangers catcher John Marzano I assume?

  • LI Phil | April 19, 2008 at 8:02 pm |

    [quote comment=”254624″]Sorry I won’t be there today. My cheapskate wife won’t let me go.[/quote]

    save up some money and buy a pair

  • Dan | April 19, 2008 at 8:36 pm |

    It appears that Chris Young of the Padres has a hole in the back of his jersey tonight. It looks to be about 1×2 inches to the left of the NOB. It looks bush league.

  • Mike Engle | April 19, 2008 at 8:54 pm |

    [quote comment=”254844″]Baltimore Road Uni Beauty!!![/quote]
    That’s Mr. Lukas’s go-to picture to demonstrate extra elastic in the stirrups to stretch them way up, “to make the legs long and cool instead of droopy and hot” (Bouton, Ball Four).
    But what I just noticed on the back of Blair’s helmet…orange Dymo tape?

  • Jeff Beef | April 19, 2008 at 8:58 pm |

    Can we please give up the whole “its a road uniform” when that no longer applies. There are plenty of things in baseball that they used to do, and don’t anymore. One of them is specific uniforms for road and home, or having to fallow that guideline. Teams make the choice on a game to game basis, or have come up with their own traditions. Like sunday uniforms, etc.

    The powder blue uni is part of their history, and people like throwbacks, and thats what they have to choose from. Not too complicated.

  • =bg= | April 19, 2008 at 9:17 pm |

    germans cant wear new speedos
    http://sports.yahoo....

  • Dan | April 19, 2008 at 9:41 pm |

    Why do the Phillies wear their red batting helmets with their alternate uniforms when the hats are blue. That is a little sketchy to me

  • Stevo | April 19, 2008 at 9:57 pm |

    [quote comment=”254917″]germans cant wear new speedos
    http://sports.yahoo....

    This has to be the first time in recorded history that Europeans have been denied Speedos.

  • LI Phil | April 19, 2008 at 10:57 pm |

    [quote comment=”254909″]Can we please give up the whole “its a road uniform” when that no longer applies. There are plenty of things in baseball that they used to do, and don’t anymore. One of them is specific uniforms for road and home, or having to fallow that guideline. Teams make the choice on a game to game basis, or have come up with their own traditions. Like sunday uniforms, etc.

    The powder blue uni is part of their history, and people like throwbacks, and thats what they have to choose from. Not too complicated.[/quote]

    i’ll grant you that it isn’t a road uni anymore…obviously, not since they’re wearing it at home…however

    if that is the case, then their opponents will need to travel with “home” whites since the gray on powder blue LOOKS LIKE ABSOLUTE SHIT…

    at least the royals, (and here i agree with bryan, paul and at least half of the UW readership), didn’t do the throwback properly by going the whole way (blue pants)…at least you can tell they are the “home” team because they are wearing white (home) pants

    but, if MLB wants to start down this slippery slope, who are we to complain, right? it’s all about the merch cashish anyways…

    afterall, the two other major sports, plus the nhl, don’t have a white home uni, why should the last bastion of all that is good and right with the world not join them?

  • Scott | April 19, 2008 at 11:08 pm |

    Travis Buck bobblehead doll giveaway today at the A’s game. Guess what he was sportin… a coolflo helmet

  • BurghFan | April 20, 2008 at 12:24 am |

    Has anyone else ever remembered any team selling sponsorship space to cater to the opponent’s fans?

    I remember Provigo, a Canadian supermarket, on the boards in Pittsburgh when the Canadiens visited in the late ’80s.

    I’ll defer to someone who actually knows, but I’d imagine that the value of board space for a Canadian company on a nationally televised game far exceeds what it’s worth to a local advertiser in an American market.

  • Jordan Pope | April 20, 2008 at 1:27 am |

    [quote comment=”254931″][quote comment=”254917″]germans cant wear new speedos
    http://sports.yahoo....

    This has to be the first time in recorded history that Europeans have been denied Speedos.[/quote]

    Speedo is the official supplier for the US Team right?
    Because Nike has a new suit also, but i don’t know if they are the supplier or not, sounds like the LZR is pretty good.

  • Luther Mahoney | April 20, 2008 at 3:29 am |

    My main gripe with the Blue Jays’ throwback uniform is with the cap. I remember that,in a previous column,you mentioned that New Era does not have an archive of their older caps. It really shows when this new cap was designed.

    First,on the white front panels,the edge stitching and front eyelid stitching is blue rather than the original white. Second,the color of the top of the Blue Jay’s head is more of a medium French blue rather than the lighter Columbia blue on the original cap. Third,the Blue
    Jay logo looks smaller and more compressed than the original. It looks like a patch that was sewn onto the cap rather than having the logo directly
    embroidered to the cap.

    If these teams and uniform manufacturers want to do throwbacks they should take the time and do the proper research before they trot out
    these uniforms.

  • Luther Mahoney | April 20, 2008 at 3:52 am |

    My main gripe with the Blue Jays’ throwback uniform is with the cap. I remember that,in a previous column,you mentioned that New Era does not have an archive of their older caps. It really shows with the design of this new cap.

    First,on the white front panels,the edge stitching and eyelid stitching is blue rather than
    white on the original cap. Second,the color of the top of the Blue Jay’s head is a medium French blue
    rather than the lighter Columbia blue on the original cap. Third, the logo looks smaller and more compressed than on the original cap. It looks
    like a patch that was sewn onto the cap rather than having the logo directly embroidered to the
    cap.

    If the teams and the uniform manufacturers
    want to do throwbacks,they should take the time and do the proper research before they trot out these uniforms.

  • scott | April 20, 2008 at 6:23 am |

    Saw the Reading Phillies play at the Connecticut (Norwich) Defenders yesterday. The R-Phils are sporting a powder blue look on the road (and apparently at select home games) that is supposed to be reminiscent of the 1980 Philadelphia Phillies road uniforms, but updated with R-Phils logo and lettering. And all the players were wearing high maroon socks. Fortunately the Defenders were in their home whites.

  • charlie | April 20, 2008 at 8:50 pm |

    bryan. With all due respect, i think you are an idiot. Those jerseys are MUCH better than the trash they normally wear and most trash seen in the MLB these days.

  • Joe Chiaccio - Jersey-Joe.com | April 20, 2008 at 9:54 pm |

    Cool Base jerseys are not mandatory for 2008, so you will see some (but only a few) players still wearing the older 6200-series authentic jersey. That will probably change next year, as the Cool base will be the only on-field jersey.

  • simon | April 21, 2008 at 3:47 am |

    Has anyone else ever remembered any team selling sponsorship space to cater to the opponent’s fans?

    Yankee Stadium has had a Yomiuri Shimbun (newspaper) ad plastered on the outfield wall ever since Hideki Matsui’s been in New York. Safeco often has Japanese Nintendo DS ad behind home plate, and a Japanese energy drink ad on the Mariners dugout fence.

    I think I’ve seen Chinese ads in (photos of) NBA games, and also in European football matches, though I can’t recall the specific examples. Actually a few European football clubs have had Chinese companies as main sponsors too.

    Seems to be much more common than even just 5 years ago.

  • George | April 22, 2008 at 4:20 pm |

    >Has anyone else ever remembered any team selling sponsorship space to cater to the opponent’s fans?

  • George | April 22, 2008 at 4:22 pm |

    (Sorry, actual comment got eaten)

    You tend to see it a lot when the Leafs or Habs play a low-revenue NHL team in the playoffs – when the Leafs played Carolina a few years ago, the boards were practically all Toronto-oriented advertisements. I imagine there’s a buyout clause for the regular sponsors on the TV side of the rink, and as it’s presumably much cheaper to buy ads in those markets – even with covering the buyout – than at the ACC or Bell come playoff time, companies scoop them up. It’s also a neat way of getting around official sponsorship deals.

    It was a bit weird seeing it in Boston, but that just shows how hot a property the Habs are now. Then again, it *is* the Toronto Dominion Garden (or at least will be when the Banknorth name is inevitably phased out) so perhaps the CanCon was to be expected.

    As for the Jays uniforms – they’re fine, and seeing as how baseball has gone to gray as the road colour of choice they even work as the home uniform in the same way the Lakers are allowed to wear yellow at home.

  • simon | April 22, 2008 at 7:12 pm |

    great point about the Lakers yellow. Same with the Sweden and Ukraine yellow home unis (there must be more examples for traditionally white homes being light colours for some teams). Since no one wears powder blues as road unis now, I really don’t get the whole fuss about powder blues being worn at home, it’s not the 70s and 80s anymore.

  • simon | April 22, 2008 at 7:17 pm |

    are you serious about the Toronto Dominion Gardens, btw?
    That would be the oddest named arena in the world, having the wrong city name on it. Sure it won’t become simply the TD Gardens?